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GAY SEX AND POSSIBLE HAPPINESS Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-22-2018, 10:44 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies Hi Project, I do not know you in person but I started reading the forum a few years ago and I can say that it was very helpful. It occurred to me to write yoy to thank you for the enormous work you have done and to tell you that today I feel really happy! Project, at 29 (almost 30), I finally feel fulfilled. I found a wonderful guy who loves me. To build a complete trust between us it took us several months, he is a bit older than me but he has not yet turned 30, but the more I know him the more I feel in love.   He's serious, Project, he keeps what he promises, you feel him close to you in difficult moments, he's paying attention to what he says, he doesn’t speak inappropriately, he doesn’t give me trivial answers for complacency, he doesn’t want to be right  when he’s not right, he's willing to change his mind if there are convincing arguments and then I saw him one day on the subway, we happened to be on the same train, I was with people of my office and I couldn’t go to say hello to him and he didn’t even see me. Well there was a boy 14-15 years old, probably from a country of the Eastern Europe, who played the violin, but he sounded really good, and then begged and my boyfriend gave him 10 euros and the boy was happy and my boyfriend also congratulated the boy: "You play the violin amazingly! "This thing has really moved me, he is like that, he always tries to do something good if he can.   Yesterday we lived our first sexual experience and it was an extremely beautiful thing, harmony was perfect ... Project, I had had my adventures and he too, but being with him was a completely different thing. There were no problems, complexes, nothing like that, just the happiness of being together. I remember that a decade ago, when I still attended church, there was a priest, a young priest, maybe 30 years old, who talked about sex as something dirty, "selfish", to me it didn’t seem at all so, not even at that time but after being with my boyfriend I wonder who could have put those stupid ideas in mind to a 30 year old priest, heterosexual or gay, it makes no difference.   Sometimes I wonder how a priest can talk to others about sexuality if he has totally absurd preconceptions in mind. Sex as a form of "selfishness"? There are also those who live this way but also in the less pleasant situations in which I found myself, sex was not a game anyway and there was nothing selfish. The priest talked about "bending another person under your power!" This was sex for him! Violence? But how can you misunderstand everything up to this point? He once told me that making love, or better, having sex with a man is something that "ruins your conscience!" I remembered this expression for years. Poor priest, who has never experienced one of the most beautiful feelings in the world! He spoke of love without sexual desire and seemed to say sublime things, it seemed to him that the essence of Christianity was that! I came to ask myself if that priest would only recite a part already written or if he believed what he was saying. If he believed it, he assumed he was able to teach others things that he didn’t understand himself.   I'm happy to have had sex with my boyfriend, it was just a form of Love, the one with L capital, and we did it after doing the tests and then in maximum safety, I'm happy that there are no secrets between us, and that we also love each other even sexually. Why should I do without sex? because someone says that sex only serves to bring children into the world? But it doesn’t make any sense! Why should we be afraid of pleasure? Sex lived without conditioning is a beautiful thing, it is a form of Love, but why do some people fail to understand it?   Some time ago I was reading about a guy who said that between two guys there can only be sex and never Love and I ask myself: is it possible to be blind up to this point? You can also be straight and you perhaps want to give yourself a tone, but only an individual who needs to value himself with such tricks because he has nothing better can think that what he does is love because he does it with a woman, but if you do something with a guy it is "only sex”, and in saying "only sex" there is a form of contempt and supposed superiority that makes one feel sorry. I even met a "adult" (more or less 40 years old) a gay guy who made a similar reasoning, and perhaps had never experienced true gay sexuality. Perhaps my things have gone well, now I'm fully happy, but even before, I've always found guys more than decent, they were not sex maniacs, they were looking for love, for affection, they were not people who exploited you, they had their complexes and their problems but there was nothing bad or stupid in all this. Why be afraid of physicality? If it is for disease prevention, ok, but there is the test and you can go further, but why be afraid of physical contact? How is it possible to think that the body corrupts the soul? It is precisely because some people lack sexual education.   When I was child my parents played with me, there was a lot of physical contact, I never had any inhibitions, my father always told me about sexuality, he and my mother used to cuddle each other in front of me and, in the morning, when I got up, I went to put myself in the big bed among them. When I realized I was gay, I told my father, I was not even 14 and there was no hysterical reaction, he didn’t raise any barriers, he didn’t start with doubts, he told me: "Well then, instead of a girl you will find a guy, but he must be a very good guy!" For him the essential thing was that my boyfriend was a good guy, My father didn’t even consider the problem that was a guy and not a girl.   I am not afraid of homosexuality, I never have been afraid of it, it because my parents weren’t afraid of it and they didn't transmit me any negative sentiment. My boyfriend came many times to my house and was welcomed like a king! I have two wonderful parents, who have given me a profound moral education, an education to freedom, as an indispensable value. My mother always told me: "You have to do what you really want, don’t let anyone influence you!" On one thing, my parents gave me examples that I will never forget, that is on the use of money, my father tells me often there are only two enemies of a peaceful life and they are money and power, when they stop to be instruments and become a goal.   I remember a few months ago, in a supermarket, there was the food collection for Caritas (my parents are very secular and don’t go to church but they never made problems when I started to frequent that environment). We enter the supermarket and they give us the bag where to put things to give to Caritas, my father put in the envelope of Caritas things exactly identical to those he bought for us, we didn’t say anything about but I learned a fundamental lesson: that my less fortunate neighbor is exactly like me, and that if you can do something good, you have to do it because happiness lies in these things, that’s why the story of the boy who played the violin hit me much. My boyfriend shares the basic principles of life with me.   I want to say one more thing. I told my parents that I made love with my boyfriend and mom told me: "I hope you can be happy as we were your father and I!" And we embraced all the three of us! My parents are old, my mother is 64 and my father is 66, but they seem younger than many guys I know, I've never seen them quarrel or raise their voices, just never! They are old but they are happy to be together and that happiness involved me too. They trusted me immediately, I felt them close when I needed them, but never in a suffocating way, I felt free but I knew that there they were.   Some time ago I told my father that I was very happy to have had a father like him and he was moved and I saw a tear in his eyes. Now I have a wonderful boyfriend and I repeat it to him all the time because I know he likes to hear it. He speaks very little of his family, he no longer has his parents who both died of cancer and I think for him it was a distressing thing that lasted years. We have been living together for only a few months and I want to make him happy, I want to repay him for all the suffering he had to endure, because he is a wonderful guy and I love him totally.   I don’t know what the future will bring us, but I feel totally fulfilled and I have to tell everyone that being gay for me was a beautiful thing. Happiness exists! And I found it!   Best wishes to you, Project. You don’t know how important it was for me to read the Forum! Richard89   GAY GUYS AND VIOLENCE IN WHITE GLOVES Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-19-2018, 09:05 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies Hi Project, I am writing this email because I need a quick and concrete advice. I'm 22, I've always been interested in guys older than me, but not too much, I mean 30-35 years old. I state that in practice until a short time ago I lived dreaming and following fantasy. In practice for only a few months now I started looking for a partner with the classic app that everyone knows and you don’t like at all.  One evening a guy 32 years old contacts me, he is not so bad, after so many scarecrows, he seemed really a nice guy, gym-goer, dynamic, a guy ok, that is the kind of guy I like. We talk a bit and everything seems ok, polite, no sexual allusions, doesn’t ask nosy questions, in short he doesn’t seem bad. We go on for a while always on the chat, then it comes the proposal to meet each other, I accept but in the morning, in a public place where there are many people and so on, etc., that is, I take all the precautions because I don’t know how much I can trust him.  We meet at the station, in person he’s better than in the picture, well dressed, not a ceremonial suit, but elegant, in short, one who cares about himself, the hair well done a very short beard, in short all the characteristics of one ok. We go to the bar, he offers me a cocktail, at the most I would take a cappuccino or an orange drink, he asks me if I want to go with him for a ride out of town and tells me that his car is parked nearby, but I tell him I just wanted to take a walk with him to get to know each other better, he is clearly annoyed by my answer, he doesn’t seem the type used to being told no.  We continue the walk, at lunchtime he wants to take me to a restaurant but I don’t accept and I don’t go, he is clearly unnerved but holds back his aggressiveness. In the early afternoon we say goodbye, I follow him, in practice I follow him, he doesn’t even realize it, I see the car, a remarkable BMW, I  write down the license plate number, that could be useful.  In the evening he calls me back, he seems calm. The dialogue in chat between us goes on. Slowly I begin to trust him, I agree to go to lunch with him and he chooses restaurants in my opinion a little too cheap for him, to allow me to pay in the Roman way (each for himself), because I had put this condition. A month passes, all without sex between us, then he proposes me to accompany him to another city for work. I tell him that's fine but always paying everything in the Roman way, and booking rooms in the hotel is up to me. He is very annoyed by this fact but eventually accepts.   While we are in the car he changes tone and begins to talk about sex, but he does it in a way that I don’t like at all, he does as one who is accustomed to claim something from others and I cannot stand him, I point it out to him, he makes a big sigh and says, "Ok, no sex!" I had booked two single rooms in the hotel so as not to stay in the room with him, "strangely" he didn’t expect it. He comes into my room, then goes to the bathroom to take a shower and leaves the phone on the bed, a cell phone identical to mine.  A message arrives, I open it and read it: "You're a piece of shit! You have to disappear from my face!", I wrote down the name and the number then I see that there is a frequent exchange of text messages with that person, as I still feel the water flowing I read a some emails and I understand that it was an exchange with his former boyfriend. My boyfriend (let's call him so) was threatening his ex to get something from him but it was not clear what. I heard the water close, I erased the last message and put everything in place.  He comes out of the shower I don’t tell you how ... what he had in mind was clear but I felt something strange in all the story, I told him I just didn’t feel like it, he pretended not to understand and he put himself naked in my bed, I took immediately the key to his room and went to lock myself in his room. I think he took it very badly. The next day at breakfast he looked like a beaten dog, then he went to the business meeting for which he had come and I waited around the city and I called his ex, I told him that he didn’t know me and that I had met his ex via the usual app and I wanted to know what kind of guy he was.  He was very cautious at first, then he let himself go and told me that he too had a terrible crush on that guy, but that the guy had something that he could not bear at all, he was violent, he had slapped him several times, nevertheless the guy had always pretended nothing because in practice he was afraid of his former boyfriend who was used to threatening and demanding. After this phone call that did nothing but confirm my doubts, I went to the hotel, I settled the bills, paying also for his room, I took my suitcase and I went to the station, I bought another sim for the phone and I destroyed the old one, then I came home by train.  I don’t know what he thought and frankly I don’t care to know, but one who uses to slap a guy who is in love with him is not a gay but an asshole! I also deleted the famous app. Thanks to my prudence he doesn’t know anything about me, not even my last name, I asked the hotel to keep it reserved. Perhaps sooner or later we will meet again in the streets of the city, but I will not even answer him.  The story is this. I had some doubts because I immediately trusted his ex and I didn’t listen to him, but I think I did very well and avoided very unpleasant situations, if he had felt authorized to slap me I would have thought very seriously to put a knife in his belly.  A hug. Anonymous   A GAY COUPLE IN A TERRIBLE ORDEAL Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-16-2018, 05:41 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies Hi Project, I was really pleased to be able to talk with you last night, I absolutely needed it and I enthusiastically welcome the idea of summarizing yesterday's speech into an email that you can then enter in the forum.   I am 31 years old, in my life I have always been convinced of having a thousand problems, from the idea that I would never find a guy who loved me at the idea of not being physically and psychologically up to a serious partner and many other things. For those things I felt bad, I felt like a nothingness and I thought I had experienced the worst, the most problematic situations of life, then I met a guy and slowly, gradually, we began to love each other. I don’t know what brought us to get together but it happened.   For a long time we couldn’t live together because we didn’t have the chance, in theory we were only two good friends, but in reality we were a couple. We didn’t see each other every day, and it happened that maybe in a week we saw each other only once, but when we were together we felt really well, we learned to love each other, to understand each other, to trust each other. I thought I had found my serenity and surely he too thought it, but suddenly he started to accuse some disorders, he went to the doctor who sent him to the specialist and he did some very thorough instrumental examinations and it became clear that my boyfriend had a very serious health problem. I don’t go into details, but it was really a bolt from the blue.   At the moment he has quite bearable disturbances, but it will not always be that way and we have been told it, now he has begun his path of illness, which, apart from the gravity of the thing in itself, will create great problems even with work, because he is employee of a large private company and when he will have to go to the hospital for therapy he will be absent from work and so he will risk dismissal. Fortunately for me I have a good job and if it were to serve I could give him a helping hand.   At the moment he has not said anything about the illness to his parents, who are elderly, have a lot of health problems and live with him, he doesn’t want to alarm them, but sooner or later they will realize that something is wrong.   My parents know my boyfriend, who has been to my house many times with them, but they thought he was just a friend of mine. Some time ago, my father, who is 70 years old, looked at me in the eye and said: "I see you're not quiet, what's wrong?" And I told him everything, that I was gay and that my boyfriend was sick and he hugged me and told me: "On me and your mother, you can always count and for anything." I felt a little comforted but I'd have preferred that it was my boyfriend to feel comforted, but he can’t even talk with his parents.   My father asked me about the hospital where my boyfriend goes, and about doctors who take care about him and he said they are serious people, he knows those environments because he too has had oncological problems, now under control.   I modified my working hours to be close to my boyfriend as much as possible, I accompany him to work and I go to take him back, I always accompany him to the hospital, the doctor who takes care about him has been told that we are a couple and didn’t make a grimace. My father at one point called Steven on the phone and Steven came to my house for lunch, it's something quite usual for us, but this time my father told Steven something that he didn’t expect: "Louis told me everything and we (i.e. he and my mother) thought that you and Louis can feel more at ease enjoying your privacy in this apartment, I and my wife can go to a little house we have in the village nearby, which is only 15 kilometers from here, but your parents would remain alone and maybe they would take it badly, I don’t know ... What do you think about?" Steven was puzzled and didn’t know what to say and I too, actually. He should have left his parents’ house and it seemed unrealistic. My father, given the perplexities, didn’t insist and said only: "The proposal is always valid, if you decide to put it into practice, it is done in two days at most".   When I took Steven back to his house and we parted, he thought that if he had been with me in the same house he would have been calmer, even for the illness, because his parents knew nothing and in case of need they wouldn’t have known what to do. He told me: "I have to try and get my parents to accept it, but they also have my sister and they wouldn’t be alone anyway ... let's see what happens." After not even a week, my parents went to live in the village and Steven moved to my home. He was happy to be with me, it was also a way to realize a dream, but at the base of everything there was a terrible melancholy. I saw Steven smiling and seemingly quiet but I was worried about the passage of time, everything seemed to me ephemeral and frighteningly unstable.   At the moment the situation is this, Steven goes to the hospital for checks every two months, the doctors don’t talk too much, they decide what to do step by step, I bring inside me a terrible anguish and I think about what Steven is experiencing, we speak about everything, but not about the disease, which means that he is trying to remove it and not to be too much conditioned by it.   I feel embarrassed especially for sex, I swear, Project, I never know how to behave, before we had never had problems, it all came spontaneously, now to launch the idea seems inappropriate, but in the end this is also a stupid problem. He occasionally takes the initiative, we rarely get to sex, in most cases we just smile and move on. It's different for cuddles, now there's a lot more tenderness than before, a little to compensate for the decrease in sexuality and mainly, I think, because now we have our intimacy, we have our own home and we can nestle one against the other to see the television or just to feel that we are there and that we love each other.   Project, I would never have thought of having to face a situation like this, which puts me to the test in a violently emotional way. I am terrified of the future, doctors don’t encourage but don’t even discourage, talk about the phase of therapy towards which you are going but never talk about long-term prospects. I don’t ask questions when we go to the hospital together. Steven asks some questions and I try to memorize the doctor's answers and to put together the pieces of the puzzle to understand something more. We have decided not to read Wikipedia and let the doctors do their work.   Sometimes in the morning I wake up next to Steven and I start to pray for Steven, and I have never been religious, but now I find comfort in the ideas of religion. Of this I cannot talk with Stephen, not so much because he is radically rationalist and unbeliever, but because for him it would be like a further confirmation that I consider his health problem insurmountable. He too, in my opinion, doesn’t see any favorable prospects at all, but he never talks about it. Sometimes, when we hug, I wonder what he is thinking but obviously he doesn’t say anything. Those moments of silence are very intense, our way of shaking hands is already very eloquent. This too is being gay and I had never imagined it.   Now I realize how absurd the problems I had a few years ago were, now I took a bath of reality that put me in touch with human nature in its fragility. I’m learning very hard lessons, I only know that I love Steven, and I will never leave him alone, I don’t want to think of a future without Steven, this idea is terrible for me and makes me cry, because I see Steven who calmly shakes my hand, I hear his voice a little hesitant and I also see him smile, it is he who tries not to make me think and to give me courage.   Now we are at this point, Project, and no one knows what is to come. I feel profoundly melancholic, I feel like a feather carried by the wind. My parents try to be present to calm the atmosphere a little, they treat Steven as if he were a son of theirs, this consoles a little, but the underlying terrible melancholy remains. I love Steven also because he has a dignity even in this situation, and doesn’t close himself in himself, on the contrary he accepts to share his anxieties with me, without too many words but with a lot of love. I stop here, Project, because I can’t go on. Louis   INTERGENERATIONAL GAY RELATIONSHIPS WITHOUT SCHEMES Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-14-2018, 09:54 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies Hi Project, I read the chapter on the intergenerational relationships of the manual Being Gay and I was amazed first of all because you have treated the subject, which is generally never taken seriously even by gays, and then because what I read corresponds quite well to my experience, in the sense that I saw in many documents quoted on the manual the same doubts and the same attitudes that I had myself, and then I noticed that here and there scattered in the forum, I can see traces of intergenerational relationships in some way similar to what I experienced and I’m living even now.   I am 56 years old, my name is Peter, I’m not yet old and all in all, physically, I’m still quite handsome (even if I should not be the one who says it), I’m sporty, I do sports regularly, I’m attentive to nutrition and until today I have not had serious illnesses, this pushes me to consider myself somehow still young. Of course, ten years ago I was already a mature man, but at that time I was really almost a young man, people believed that I was much younger than I really was, and at the age of 46 I met Dario (fancy name) who was 19. I, gay, or rather  a gay who had put aside the idea of finding a mate, because for me being gay, at that time,  it meant just finding a partner, anyway I had almost stopped looking around.   One evening I was invited to a graduation party, I go there because I knew the guy who had graduated. While I was there Dario arrives. Saying that he was beautiful it is reductive, I had never seen a guy like him, with a smile so bright, tall, blond, with blue eyes. When I saw him I thought only one thing: "What a beautiful guy!" I didn’t even think of approaching him, it was obvious that he was very young, I was only sorry to be too old. I did everything to distract myself and think of something else. I have not danced, because I never dance, I chatted a bit with the guy who had graduated, then I sat to observe.   Dario too didn’t dance, he didn’t court girls, it was the girls who were courting him, the guys didn’t even really consider him. At one point he looks me straight in the eyes, I feel like a very strong twinge, he leaves the group of girls and comes to sit next to me and tells me: "I know you're bored! I see it!" I just smile a bit, then we exchange a few words, he notices that I'm almost embarrassed and introduces himself, I do the same, we talk a few more minutes of this and that, then he pulls out of the pocket a piece of paper, he writes his name on it and his cell phone number and passes it to me, then asks me: "Can I have yours?" I say to him: "Of course!" but I must have said it with the light in the eyes, and he replies with a wonderful smile, then returns to the small group of girls, who complain that they have been abandoned, he says that he had to say hello to an old friend (me), and returns to his previous conversations. Shortly before midnight he sits down next to me, asks me if I have a car, I say yes and he asks if I can take him home, I say to him: "Of course!" And this time too I must have told it with a lot of enthusiasm. He answers me with his usual smile. He greets his friends who thought he would stay with them until late, then we leave.   He lives far away, but not too much, 20 minutes later we are at our destination. During the trip at the beginning we talk about banalities, then, when we are almost at the destination, out of the blue he asks me: "Are you gay?" I feel my face burn with shame and embarrassment then I answer: "Yes! ... " before I can add anything else, he says: "Me too!" But he adds that it is late and that he must go home but that he will call me soon. He greets me without even shaking hands and beckons me to leave immediately. I perform.   As I go back to my house I feel dazed, I would never (and I say never) thought that something like this could happen: a 19-year-old guy who out of the blue asks a man 46 years old if he is gay and asks him it because a few minutes of dialogue were enough for him to understand it. Of course my fantasy starts to run at high speed, but then I say to myself: "What are you thinking about! Stop there!  Dario is a boy!" At home I do everything not to think about him, but I feel distraught because he is not just a guy, a lot of girls run after him and I think also guys, but he confronts me with that sharp question : "Are you gay?" ... and he is gay too .... Why does he ask me it? He can have all the guys he wants ... why does he tell me it? Also his friends would have given him the passage in the car but he had asked for it no one else than me.   The day after he doesn’t call me, and I feel in bad shape, I had waited for that phone call but it hadn't arrived, I was really depressed, completely on the ground, I felt like a fool and felt deluded. After midnight he calls me and says: "I didn’t call you to see if you would have called me but you didn’t call me! You probably don’t care about me!" We talked almost until dawn, it was evident that there was a total complicity between us and not because we were two gays. He told me that when he went to visit one of his friends he was fascinated by this friend's father and he described him to me, but in practice he didn't describe that man, it was me the one he was describing, and added: "But he was hetero ..." And after a few seconds he added: “But you are not!" Now the speech was clear. We began to see each other every day, without sex, we talked a lot, we went to go shopping, we used to eat a sandwich together, he was happy, I thought that in that way, I mean without sex, we could have gone on forever, but I was wrong. He saw farther than me and in a few months we got to have sex.   His involvement was total, my somehow reticent, I had begun to love him because between us there was not only sex, we talked very much, he was looking for a comparison but he had his ideas in mind and had a very strong personality. We told each other our lives even in the most intimate aspects, my life was basically a void, there was so much imagination but nothing real, while his was much more complicated, things that I never imagined and that have conditioned him a lot.   I felt I was not the best for him, but this seemed to him to be quite relative, he fell in love with young guys several times and I often encouraged him, but those stories didn’t last long and finally we came together apparently just for reasons of sex but actually because between us there was a form of deep symbiosis. Sometimes he called me in the middle of the night and told me to go to his house, I went there, he went down into the street and we stayed in the car, he started crying, told me about his disappointments, then we made love, but in the end he repented and felt dirty, he wasn’t angry  with me but with himself, but he needed to be accepted, loved, he also told me of disturbing aspects of his personality and he did it thinking that I would go away but I not only didn’t leave but I thought he really was trusting me without reservation. Now Dario is almost 30 years old, after a course of studies initially not simple, conditioned mainly by emotionality, he is now  finishing his PhD in a very particular scientific discipline and is really appreciated by his colleagues and so he also regained a lot of self-esteem, which has always been his weak point.   He recently lived a long and serious love affair with a guy he was deeply in love with, but in the end that guy dumped him and he felt very bad. During that time we saw each other a lot less, now we have started seeing each other again almost every week, on Sunday, we spend the day together, we talk a lot and we also do a bit of sex but everything is very natural, we don’t ask ourselves too many questions. With me he is really unleashed, which I don’t think he does with the guys he is in love with, it is as if with those guys he especially sought the affective side and with me the sexual one, also because those guys are looking for him especially for sex while I I'm looking for his proximity and human warmth, and even for sex, of course, but sex has never been my obsession. When I'm with him I try to limit the contacts to non-risky behaviors or to those at very low risk, he initially seemed puzzled and used to do a little scene before sex because he felt braked, but then he ended up accepting limitations rather willingly, or at least without too many problems. He doesn’t have a boyfriend but I think he has other people (few and always the same) with whom he has sex from time to time. He says he doesn’t love emotional relationships and only seeks sex from me, but in fact, after 10 years, we continue to see each other and when we are together we are really free and happy at all levels. We know each other well both sexually and in personal history. I've never talked about this story with people I know, never at all, I live alone, so I don’t have problems with the family, I just have to be a bit careful my gossipy neighbors, because it happens that Dario comes to my house even late at night and leaves the next morning.   Basically, about this story I cannot talk with anyone, I mean talking directly about myself, but it happened to me once, only once, to hear a talk on this subject made by guys I think were gay, and I was very embittered, they pronounced ferocious judgments, rulings without appeal without understanding absolutely nothing, they had their gay couple model in mind and everything that was not on that track they considered it pathological. With Dario I don’t live anything like the gay couple relationship they have in mind, but I live a relationship that makes sense, I don’t feel frustrated at all nor did I feel jealous when he had a boyfriend, between us there is also sex, but I think it has above all the sense of the confirmation of the fact that there is an affective relationship between us of which we never speak, but perhaps it is better, because it is not the words that count. I would not want anything different from what I receive from him.  This is the relationship between us, but it has been working for 10 years now, it is not a fairy tales story, but frankly I wouldn’t change it with anything in the world. I think of him a thousand times a day and I don’t think only of sex but I think above all of his successes, his self-esteem, his dignity, the fact that he built himself by himself, that he never enslaved himself to anyone or anything, he never felt fascinated by money, he has never hurt anyone. And then, if I think he trusts me (and on the other hand I trust him the same way) I feel proud. I think that our relationship is really a way to love each other, a way that is absolutely out of scheme but it’s a way. The thing I have always admired most in him is his clear speech, not using too many words and saying even brutally what he thinks. In practice we have never quarreled, we said goodbye dozens of times but then we forgot it because the sense of being together was strong beyond any convention.  In conclusion, Project, what do you think about? Peter62    GAY GUYS BETWEEN APPS AND CAMS Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-12-2018, 07:28 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies Hi Project, I read a lot on your forum and also the manual Being Gay and I breathed a sigh of relief, from these readings comes out an image of gay life that is very close to what I live. I had surfed a lot on the Internet looking for something realistic, but frankly I was always disappointed. I also spent a period approaching chats and apps dedicated to gays and there, for me, it was just like going to explore the moon. I wondered: but how is it possible that there are no "normal" gay guys, that is guys not obsessed with sex and no too much engaged with the gay movement, guys who mustn't necessarily have a flag. I, with one exception that you will soon understand, have never seen the classic next door gay guy. Ok, we are few, even if not very few, but I didn’t see even a single gay guy and I didn’t even perceive a vague trace of them, just zero!   I’m 26 years old, throughout the university period I was very careful to spy on possible gay signals but I didn’t find any, or at least some clues were so labile that I was discouraged from going forward at any level. Then I found Gay Project, there were many beautiful testimonies, but, Project, are all old, even several years old, of this year there is very little, almost nothing, in short, Project, gay guys have escaped also from Gay Project! Where did they go? I think in the apps that explode for how many people you can find there, but it's a shame, because the forum serves to reflect and understand something of the lives of others and also of one’s own live. However, I close this parenthesis and come to the main motivation for my email. In practice, the story is about my relationship with the chats and some people known in chat, especially with one.   A couple of years ago, after a thousand hesitations, after doubts, scruples and everything you want, I register on a famous app for gay dating, I don’t name it, but I think you understand what I mean. When I enter for the first time I feel like Pinocchio in the Country of the toys. I said to myself: "But it's all so easy! But how did I not understand it before? I was totally stupid!" I get the first contact. I expect something very rough: four questions and then to the point! But no, I find a very kind guy who asks me how long I have been using the app, what is my name, in which region of Italy I am, etc. etc., in practice a normal chat, then asks me if we can see each other on cam, here I remain very perplexed, a little I had to imagine it, but then and there I felt caught on the counterattack, I finally told him that I didn’t feel like doing it, he tried to insist, but I didn’t change my mind and then he greeted me with a very characteristic phrase: "So what are you doing here?"   However, that experience put me in front of a Shakespearean doubt that I had to solve: "Cam or not cam?" In the end I told myself that app without cam makes no sense and I decided that I would show up on cam (dressed, of course !). At the next contact, more or less the same ritual, a little chatter and then the request to go on cam. I open the cam, but I find myself in front of a guy who doesn’t inspire me: long dirty nails, greasy hair, no! Just repellent and moreover probably over 40! Before making him talk I told him brutally: "You're not my type, I'm not interested, bye!" He replied with unspeakable insults: "Piece of sh.t ... you're beautiful! Ugly asshole!!" Then I closed and it ended there.   After an abstinence from the app lasted a few days, I try again, at the beginning the script is more or less the usual, we open the cam, well, this time I have to say that the guy gives me a good impression, he’s  not the guy of my dreams, but I think it's worth trying with him, but he immediately freezes me: "No, forget it! You're not my type, I like more fat guys, I'm sorry, Bye!" After having been put down this way, I deleted the app, but a couple of months later I downloaded it again and this time at the first shot I make bingo, I like the guy, he's young, he says he's 23 years old, moreover he's nice and he doesn’t close the cam but goes on chatting.   We speak, in practice never talk about sex, but he doesn’t even talk about women as happened with a guy I had met in a chat. Let's say this he was not bad, we spend a week chatting and he never talks about sex, ok, I tell myself that maybe he's a bit 'inhibited, on the other hand he’s young, we spend chatting another week and we talk about everything from fractals to quarks, from mandalas to coelacanth but we never talk about sex. I have never endured those who speak immediately about sex, but before or after we must come to the point.   I do not know whether to start the speech, but I don’t even know where to start from, I let him talk, but he starts to talk about Chinese cinema and things like that, so I cannot stand him anymore and I say to him: "But why did you look for me on the app? And he told me, I looked for you because I know you well ... " I tell him that I had never seen him and he answers me in a completely unexpected way: "If you are referring to what you saw in cam, that's not me, he’s a friend who made himself available ... " I began to be afraid because I didn’t know who I was talking to and I feared something bad, like blackmail or maybe he could also have been a psychopath. He told me: "I know many things about you! I know that this morning you went late to work ..."   Here I began to really worry, he could be some of my work colleagues, it seemed strange that someone followed my movements and spied on me, I didn’t understand what motivation could lead to similar things. Then before I wrote my answer he closed. I felt agitated, I didn’t sleep at night. Who could be interested in spying on me? And if the guy knew I was late at work he could only be one of my colleagues. In the morning I go to work, but I have the impression that nothing has changed, the three colleagues with whom I work and sometimes I even chat a bit every day don’t show signs of any kind. Things are not clear at all.   Who could know that I had arrived late for work? The guy does not show up for two days, I don’t know if I feel more comfortable or more agitated, then I get a message: "You're puzzled eh ... I can understand you!" I tried to make myself feel calm and to widen the speech in order to have some more elements to understand what was happening. He replied: "I feel that you are worried and that you pretend not to be, you must learn to recite better."  I was puzzled and asked him: "Who are you? What do you want from me?" He replied: "I’m your conscience! And I want to bring you to think a little bit. I know you, I know that today at the bar you didn’t have the usual breakfast, you chose something different, but why? Maybe are you agitated?" "But I totally ban you and close this shit of an app!" "Certainly you can do it, but the idea of being controlled will remain, there are so many ways ... " And he closed.   I tried to remember who was near me at the bar but I had not noticed anyone, at least I had ruled out that it was a work colleague, because in the morning at the bar there was nobody I knew, but someone obviously knew me. However, in the following days the guy would not have returned to my bar, of this I could be sure. He said he was my conscience and wanted to make me think. Could he be a person I don’t know? But what interest would push a stranger to make all this comedy? However, for every good purpose I banned him and I deleted the app again.   A few days later I went into a chat where I used to go sometimes even before, and I got a call from a stranger with nickname "Mattew92-bis" and it alarmed me because Mattew92 was my nickname. He asks me: "How are you?" I ask him right away if we know each other and he says "Sure!" Then he adds: "You did well to delete the app, but what are you looking for here?" I told him: “But who are you? Because you are becoming an obsession for me!" He replied: "No! Just shut down the chat and I disappear!" And I said to him: "But then I find you somewhere else?" He just said, "We'll see" and he broke off.   I permanently closed my account on the chat and then I came back to it with a different nick, but he was still there and told me: "Why are you playing with me? What do you do you? You get out and then re-enter?" I insist: "Who are you? If you don’t tell me, I go to the police." He said to me: "And if I were the police?" I insisted, "Are you a cop?" And he closed. I was really scared and didn’t know what to expect, then I received an email from "Mattew92-bis", I quote it below.   "Hello Matthew, from now you will not hear me again, I'm sorry if I made you worry, my name is Matthew too, and I was born the same year and the same month you were born, but a few days later. I live in front of your house, you've never noticed me but I have watched you for a long time, you leave the window open and you have a mirror behind your back that allows me to see what you do at the PC even if you don’t know, I know you're gay, don’t worry, because I'm gay too, and I’ll not disgrace you, the day you were late at work I followed you from home to where you work, when you had breakfast differently I was in the bar, but you didn’t even notice me, when you enter the chat I see it immediately and I also know your nick, for the application I have a version a little modified by me, I can detect gays that I have around me but they cannot detect me because my location is fixed and always in the same place. If you look at the window you can see from where I look at you: there is a green tent with drawn circles, one of those circles is a hole and from there I look at you with a powerful telescope. Now probably you too will put a tent behind the window, and I will not have my show anymore, but, instead of chasing guys on apps and chats, why don’t you come visit me? You are really a nice guy, I ... well ... it's not up me to judge, but I am attaching a photo of me, so you can understand who I am! I wait for you, now you know where to find me! Please note that I'm not looking for sex, then if sex comes by itself, ok, but I'm looking for a serious gay friend and I know it could be you, if you'll ever forgive me."   I opened the picture and it occurred to me that I had seen that guy a couple of times in passing and he was also a handsome guy. I took courage and went to his house. I told him that he had made me worry a lot, and that he finally made the voyeur. He replied: "Yes, it's true, it started like this, but then you really intrigued me."   Actually he was not looking for sex, I don’t know if there will be sex sooner or later, I hope so, but I'm fine even without sex, I found a totally unexpected friend. He didn’t want me to go to chats because he wanted me to think only of him, now we see each other every day, because he lives right in the building in front of mine, he's a guy with a monstrous intelligence and he really cares about me. Where the story will end up I don’t know but it seems like a good story and then, seen closely he’s just beautiful, sweet but also confident, reassuring.   Well, I was not expecting a coming out like that. I didn’t put any curtains at the window, I saw his telescope with which he spied on me, it was a huge, very heavy, professional tool, he told me was equipped with a 35 cm mirror, and you could see everything even the smallest details. He told me that the first thing that had struck him was that in my house there were never girls and that everything started from there, a beautiful guy (he says I'm beautiful), no girls ... the thing must be deeply analyzed! And he did bingo! He made me shit with fear but now we are two gay friends! And he is not a pathological case as I had feared! I hug you, Project, and thanks for your skype contact, I’ll call you soon. Mattew92   A GAY GUY GOES TO THE ANDROLOGIST Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-07-2018, 09:45 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies Hi Project,   I am a closeted thirty-year-old gay guy who lives in a very homophobic town in the rich north-east of Italy. I would like to tell you my story and ask you what you think.   Just a nod on my life until a couple of years ago, at the beginning I used to look for a real love and I never found it, maybe because I looked for it in the wrong places and with the wrong methods, then I started to go not so much for subtlety (Quiet! I have always used all the methods of prevention.)   At the age of 27, I have to say, I was a drifter of sex, in a year I had collected almost a dozen stories, which obviously were not serious things, but in the end they were even frustrating. I would have liked a normal guy who loved me and I would have gladly put the final point to all the whirlwind of my research on the apps.   One day just through an app a guy contacts me, he says he is 26 years old, we talk a bit, he’s polite, seems one not obsessed with sex, he proposes me to meet each other, I think it's too early and I try to postpone, I expect him to disappear but it doesn’t happen. He asks me for photos but I don’t give them to him, but we keep on talking even in the following days, we talk about everything, even about sex but without overdoing it and always in a very polite way.   After three weeks of online contacts he again asks me to meet him, this time I say yes but since I don’t want problems of any kind, we agree to meet in another city and spend Saturday and Sunday together (I don’t work on Saturday). I decide to go by train so as not to be identifiable even from the license plate of the car. Note, Project, that I had never even seen a picture of him and he had never seen one of me. We meet at the station at 9.00 in the morning. I tell my parents that I have to go on a mission for two days (things like that happened other times).   I do not know who I will meet, but I feel very excited, there is something that tells me that it will not be the usual meeting “escape and flee”. When I get on the train I realize I don’t have condoms with me, but I think I can buy them there too and that they might not be useless. In the place of the appointment he is already there waiting for me, the recognition signal works (a certain newspaper under his right arm). It seems a nice guy, indeed very nice. We leave the luggage at the station depot and we go around, it's a beautiful sunny morning.   It's all radically different from my previous encounters, we don’t talk about sex, rather we feel a certain embarrassment, we have breakfast together, we often exchange smiles, he’s a very sweet guy, I would like to know something more about him but asking questions seems inappropriate. He knows the city, even if it is not his city and has already prepared a whole project of things to do and places to go.   I perceived his presence, there were many silences, then I asked him if he felt embarrassed and he replied: "Before seeing you, while I was waiting for you! but not now! Not at all now! And you?" "I ... well I'm just fine, no problem." Then we began to joke, to tell each other jokes. He doesn’t tell sexual jokes and uses a very clean language. We go to lunch together in a restaurant, the climate is very relaxed, peaceful, pleasant.   We walk until evening, we have dinner together, then it's time to go to the hotel, he says: "Do you mind if we take two single rooms?" I say no, but that request cools my enthusiasm a lot. He is glad that I didn’t insist on taking a double room. We go to the hotel but there are no single rooms, he looks at me and tells me: "What can we do? Is it okay for a double room?" I spread my arms and make a sign that it's okay too, since there's no other way.   We enter the room, he is very embarrassed and tells me: "Now what do we do?" I tell him that I would like to have a bit of sex, I would really like it but I don’t have condoms with me and ask him if he has any, he tells me: no, but he adds that there are also the non-dangerous ways of having sex and that he especially likes them. The room is very well heated. Project, I spare you the details and I just tell you that I had never had sex like that with a guy, just mutual masturbation and a lot of physical intimacy, but it was something unique because I saw him involved in such a total way that I wouldn’t have imagined that it could even exist. It was just an exciting thing at levels I had never tried. At the end we fell asleep in each other's arms.    In the morning we didn’t have time to repeat the experience because we had to leave the room before 10.00 o’clock. We spent the Sunday morning joking and playing with each other, then we went for lunch together and I started asking him when we could meet again. He looked at me a little embarrassed and then he told me: "There's one thing I didn’t tell you, I'm engaged!" I felt very uncomfortable and I told him: "But how is it? You have a boyfriend and you don’t tell me?" He replied: "You didn’t understand, I have a girlfriend ..."   I told him that there was something strange according to me because he didn’t seem to me a straight guy looking for distraction, he told me: "I know I'm gay, I was fine with you and I would always stay with you but I cannot, because I have a girlfriend for years and now she is part of my family and I think that in a year at most we will get married" I looked at him with a perplexed air and I asked how the sex went with the girl and he replied: "Well, somehow it works, she never noticed anything but when I do it I think about something else, I'm not straight, there's nothing to do, if it were for me I would never have sex with a woman, when I’m there, anyway, it works all the same but it is something that I do because I must do it, and then with her I could never speak clearly because she would feel betrayed, now we are in front of everyone a very solid couple and she believes it too, I don’t think I could avoid marrying her, by now I'm too far ahead with that story, she’s a good girl but I’m not interested in girls."   I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to get him to think, but he felt trapped and had threw in the towel, he felt resigned to being a good husband at home and a good gay, maybe with me, some Saturday nights at the hotel. He told me that he had to break away from me, that I put him in crisis, I put him in front of the responsibility of his choices but that now the choices were made and there would be no chance to go back. We took the train and we went back home.   He disappeared for two weeks, he didn’t answer to the emails or the phone, then he contacted me again, we met one afternoon and he seemed really shattered. This is what he told me:   "Here they are just caging me, I cannot stay out of it, it's all a trap, I had to go with her for eight days in a resort abroad, all paid for by my parents! And it was a shocking thing, she was happy, I could not stand her anymore but she was the victim and I had to console her, I was forced to make love with her because otherwise she ended up in depression. She really didn’t understand anything. I thought to speak clearly but I didn’t dare to imagine her reaction and then I pretended to be worried about work reasons. I thought that in the resort we would be alone and instead her parents made us the nice surprise that they were there also them! I cannot stand it anymore! I have to go out of the cage but I don’t know how. If I said I'm gay, nobody would believe it ...   "What could be done to resolve the situation? In the end we thought something that could work, he would go a couple of times to an andrologist, perhaps the first time accompanied by the girl, accusing pain in the testicles and then after the second examination it should have said that he had to do the seminogram and a few days after that the result was that he could not have children, anyway, as a gay, he would certainly not have had children from another woman.   He didn’t want to accept the whole script, it seemed to him a real hoax, but then he was aware that the alternative would be the wedding therefore he came to a milder attitude. He didn’t know whether to speak clearly with his parents, but when your parents don’t even realize that you are not well with your girlfriend and force you to go on holiday with her ... to speak clearly would mean just throwing open a pot without knowing what's inside.   In the end we have agreed all the details and all the preparatory speeches. I realize that, seen from the outside, all this seems like an expedient of the lowest alloy to avoid the coming out, but a coming out in a situation like that would have been ruinous. To realize the whole project, a low level staging, it is true, but perhaps the least traumatic solution, it took more than a month.    When he went to the girl and told her that he could not have children, the girl expected it and the recitation of the great pain had been well prepared by her family and ended with the promise to remain friends, but he wanted to return all gifts and said he preferred to permanently close an experience that had ended up being traumatic.   I summarized the whole story in a few lines but it was very demanding, stressful and even risky because, if our trick had been detected, for him it would have been a disaster, but it went well! From the following Saturday we started our meetings in the hotel in the nearby city and I think our story will continue. We're all right together and we're planning to change both our jobs and to move both of us to that city, away from prying eyes, he too thinks that coming out, even just in the family, is certainly inopportune. Among other things, his parents know nothing about the andrologist's story and think that their son, the poor guy, will never marry because he cannot have children and it is good that they continue to think so.   Project, don’t look bad at me, the coming out in certain situations is not really thinkable. So we rest assured and the girl can make her life with someone who really wants her and his parents have put their soul in peace and at least there is no gossip about homosexuality because the story is all straight! Could I send him to the marriage slaughter? No! Should he expose himself to a destructive coming out? No! At least, so they are all happy and we first of all.   Let me have your news soon. David   GAY GUYS AND REJECTION OF SESUALITY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-05-2018, 02:20 AM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies Hi Project, I took a quick look at the book Being Gay, it is truly monumental, from small tastings it seems interesting to me and it is extraordinary that it can be downloaded at no cost. You have done a useful job, I don’t add other adjectives.   I am a 25-year-old guy, I live in Northern Italy, so in an environment that should be gay friendly. Here there are gay associations but, if I refer to that mythical 8% of gays, I have to conclude that those who attend associations are a small minority and I don’t tell you the comments I hear about them by a lot of people.    Where are all the other gays? I don’t see them anywhere, so even here gays are scared, and I think they do well to be afraid because the social climate is not good at all, and actually it's even worse than it was a few years ago.   At school I didn’t know a single gay guy, no one declared himself, and exposing himself too much was dangerous. The dating sites and the App, which everyone talks about, are not for me, they seem to me a squalid thing. My gay life, let's call it so, started at university.   I attended and I'm finishing up attending a faculty with few students, not even forty the first year and then around 30 or even less until the end, they are almost all guys, girls are quite rare, in my course I think they are only five, well, a few weeks after the start of the lessons of my first year I realized that, let's say, I was not alone, and that the compulsory attendance was not only useful for the exams but also to build relationships with the other guys.   In practice, the university works on two levels, one formal, official, in which there are relationships with teachers, objectively very technical and very limited, even if we are very few, because the courses are short and are very dense with content, and the other underground, but not too much, in which the very fact of being together from morning to night creates in us, young people, a climate of collaboration that favors the birth of friendships, and, in some cases, even something more.   In the morning we start the lessons at 8.00 and then, with various intervals we finish around 17.00. We eat at the canteen, perhaps at different times, depending on the lessons, but it is a very small service, only for our faculty and we study practically all together, even if divided into groups. Even those who live close to the university don’t come home, because together we feel good. I do not speak of large groups but groups of three or four guys, we have two study rooms for each year of the course and these rooms are also well equipped. Groups should be formed on the basis of uniform interests, and that is what has happened, but in general it is not a matter of study interests.   I don’t even know how it happened, but it happened, I found myself with two other colleagues, we chose each other instinctively, we were fine together, at the beginning we didn’t know at all that we were three gays, for me, it was a completely new world to be discovered, I felt that with those guys the relationship was different from what I had with others, there was no competition, there was only a great desire to be together, to work together and even more.   The two guys of my small group of study, Louis and Antony, were very different, Louis was a nice guy, but he was not my type, he was pleasant, reassuring, but physically attracted me little, while Antony was very insecure, always hesitant, he was tall, blond and with blue eyes, with hair a little longish, he was a bit neurotic and complexed by the fear of being out of place, to annoy, he apologized for everything, even for very trivial things, with him I too felt a little anxious because I didn’t want to make him feel uncomfortable.   I knew almost immediately that Louis was gay, because it was he who told me it: "to avoid misunderstandings", he added. I avoided to tell him that I too was gay. Louis was fine with me and with Antony, but from what I understood he had a boyfriend and so he had his life, we were his study friends and maybe we would have also become friends of confidences, but his basic interests were elsewhere.   With Antony things were very different, when we were alone together we felt a certain embarrassment, we often talked about Louis or other guys. At one point Antony told me: "Do you know that Louis is gay? He told me it this morning ..." I replied that I knew, I saw a moment of perplexity on the face of Antony, I think he wondered why I hadn’t told him, but he didn’t comment and I think he appreciated my discretion. I was hoping that the dialogue on the subject would widen but it didn’t happen and it ended there.   We felt very well when we were there, the three of us, but when I was alone with Antony I didn’t know what to say or what to do, he had an embarrassed and embarrassing behavior, he never spoke of girls and even less of guys but it seemed to me that a good relationship had been created between us.   When we had to separate, in the evening, none of us took the initiative, and a quarter of an hour after a quarter of an hour we came home very late almost every night, but we didn’t talk too much, we spent almost all the time in silence. Among other things, when I was alone with him I was also embarrassed because I was almost always in erection and I was afraid that he would notice. From what I saw, he didn't even give a minimum  sign of erection and I didn’t like this thing at all.   The hypothesis that he was gay didn’t seem too realistic to me despite the fact that he tended to stay always with me. I feared that our relationship could turn into a relationship of dependency but in a sense I felt very attracted to Antony. I came to think that I should tell him that I was gay, because if he had found out it by himself or if he knew it from others he might feel uncomfortable.    One of the long nights spent walking back and forth around the city, I took courage and told him it, he answered me: "Don’t worry, I had understood it for some time" I asked him how he had understood it and he told me: "When you stay with me you're hard all the time ..." I asked him: "Does this embarrass you?" He replied: "If I felt embarrassed I would not be here ..." Then he continued: "You want to know if I'm gay too? "I nodded and he said:" Yes, I feel gay, or at least I don’t feel straight but sex is a bit of an obsession and a bit of a frustration for me ... " And then we finally entered the topic.   This was more or less the speech:   "I've never fallen in love with a girl, while when I'm close to you I feel at ease, and I feel at ease even if you are in erection and perhaps especially for that. You will tell me that I am stupid, but I am really complexed by these things, I think I am very feminine, I don’t feel like a woman, but I think I have female physical movements and attitudes."  "Who? You? No! Not at all!"  "You also saw Louis, he too is gay, but he is very masculine, no one would take him for gay ..."  "No! Antony, no! Take these things off your head! You're a beautiful guy, and you're very masculine, you're not rough, you're not massive but thin, but rest assured that you're 100% masculine ... " "Well ... maybe ... " "But why do you feel conditioned in sex?”  "For me, sex has never been a simple thing, I've never been with anyone ... " "Not even me if this is the problem ... " "Yes, but you go into erection when I'm there, I on the contrary feel only embarrassed, I'm completely stuck, I think I would feel totally uncomfortable being with a guy ... " "I think these are just fears, when it happens you will realize that it's a very simple thing ... " "I don’t think it will ever happen ... " “But at least when you do it by yourself ... there are no fears ... " "When I do it by myself, as you say, and it's a very rare thing, afterwards, I feel sick ... " "But why? There's nothing wrong ... " "I'll tell you something that nobody knows ... I as a child, not even as a child, as a boy, because the first time it happened I was 14, I was raped by an uncle, and the story went on for a month, I was really afraid of him, at the end I couldn't stand him anymore, I threatened him that if he came back I would have told my father and he disappeared. He was 44 years old and I have been really raped from behind ... I don’t tell you how I felt when I experienced my first gay feelings, something disgusting, I don’t want to be gay, being gay sucks me ... now maybe you can understand ... " “Oh  my God I would never have imagined, if you want I take you home, I don’t want to create difficulties of any kind ... " "Please shut up! ... Let me go on with what I'm saying, I am a victim of homosexuality and I don’t want to be gay, I don’t even know if you can understand such a thing, but even if the memory of those things really disgusts me, I ended up becoming gay just for that reason ... " "No, Antony, now it’s you the one who has to shut up ... but which “to become”? And then you say that your uncle was was gay but I don’t think so."  "What do you mean?"  "I'm gay, I have the pleasure of being near you, even sexual pleasure, it's like that and I'm not ashamed at all of this, but I never imagined penetrating a guy from behind, really never." "That's because you were been given an education."  "No! This is because I'm gay!"  "I didn’t understand ... what does it mean?"  And there, dear Project, I took my smartphone and I had him read a piece of your book where you talk about these things. He was initially perplexed, then he went on to read, after a few minutes he looked at me and asked me: "So then my uncle could even be straight? ... " I told him that he probably was, because what he did was not a gay behavior. He was perplexed, confused, he insisted on asking me if I had ever had fantasies of that kind and I told him that it really had never happened.     The speech didn’t seem to him according to what he had seen in some videos in which anal penetration was always present in practice. I told him to read all your article and also the part of the book about the hetero-curious and I drove him home. He was puzzled, very meditative, but occasionally he made some gesture of satisfaction and even a few sketchy smiles.   The day after everything went on easily at university as if nothing had happened; immediately after 5.00 pm he asked me to take him home, but we went around in the car until late at night. He had read the book and seemed to have discovered a world, he told me: "Reading the book I got the very clear impression that my uncle was not gay at all and I realized that instead my fantasies are really gay. My uncle paid no attention to my penis, just zero, he never masturbated me and I was over 14 years old and I would have reacted but he never did, but he wanted me to have oral sex to him, but never did it to me, and above all there had to be the anal penetration and there was also something that I didn’t understand at all, that is the attention to my nipples, a really anomalous thing, to the nipples yes and to the penis no! Actually the overall picture was very different form that of real gay fantasies, isn’t it? Even I have never had fantasies of anal penetration but I thought it was something only mine, a refusal due to the abuse, but it seems that it is a very common thing among gays"   Since Antony was talking to me so freely I too felt obliged to do so and he was very intrigued by that speech that he didn’t expect at all. It was now night and there was little light, he asked me if I was hard, I said yes, he asked if he could touch it from outside, I said yes, he touched it for about ten seconds, then he looked at me and said: thank you! He apologized for the fact that he could not reciprocate, because he wasn’t in erection, then he thought just a second and told me: "Come on, check it, it's right that we're on par!"    In the following days we talked a lot less because the exams were coming and we only studied, in three at the university and then in two at my house, a single-room apartment where I lived alone because I was away from home. He came to stay at my house, because it is within a stone's throw from the faculty. We studied a lot, we slept together in the same bed, but between us there has never been sex, not even at the minimum level. After 15 days of overwork we passed the three exams we had planned. I expected him to move back to his house but he asked me to stay, I obviously said yes.     We had long evenings to spend together and we talked a lot in a totally free way, we talked about our families, our desires and obviously also about sex. I could understand that the memory of the violence troubled him deeply and even if he too began to accept the idea that his uncle was not gay at all, still he still had many doubts about it, he asked me to talk to him about my sexual fantasies and I did, he listened to me with the utmost attention, told me that the penis seemed to him an undesirable thing, associated only to violence and this fact tore him because he also experienced homosexual fantasies  but mixed with feelings of rejection. I asked him if he had felt feelings of repulsion when I had made him touch it from above my trousers and he simply replied: no!     He told me he was happy to be with me, even because I had never pressed him for any reason and that I was a positive image of gays, and finally he added: "if you are gay, I too can be so". I liked this sentence very much and I told him enthusiastically but he replied that anyway it wouldn’t have been easy for him, that he needed time and that I had to be patient, even if we slept in the same bed.    One day, after a day of intense study we went to sleep. We turned off the light but I felt that he had not turned the other way as he always did but had remained turned towards me. At a certain moment he asks me: "Are you hard now?" I say yes and he asks me if he can touch it, I say yes and he touches it very gently, after a while he says to me: "Touch mine!" And I feel that he is hard too. He tells me that it's the first time that this happens to him spontaneously and that he doesn’t feel rejection neither touching me nor being touched, then he adds that he doesn’t want to go any further and we stop touching but we keep talking, he tells me he's happy but that he doesn’t want to delude himself too much and above all he doesn’t want to delude me.   We get up, get dressed, I put myself on the sofa and he lies there, resting his head on my legs. He asks me: "Do you mind?" I only answer him with a smile and he says: "I have to get used to the physical contact ... I have never done such a thing." It is very late and falls asleep on my knees, I don’t move him. When it starts to dawn I take him in my arms and bring him back to bed. He's really a nice guy, or rather, it looks beautiful to me. I lie in bed next to him and I fall asleep too.   In the following days he seems to have completely forgotten about what had happened between us, I don’t say anything but when I sit on the couch to see the TV he almost always comes to lie down on my legs and I feel his warmth. One evening, before going to sleep, he asks me to show me naked because it has never happened before, I smile and I completely undress in front of him and I start to get a hard-on, he tells me I'm beautiful, then he undresses and he too is in erection, he comes close and hugs me tight, but very tight, almost hurting me, then asks me if we can sleep naked, of course I say yes, I put only one more cover on the bed because it's a bit cold. We hug tightly in bed and we stay like this for very long minutes.   The next day it was as if nothing had happened between us, not in the sense that there was disinterest, but as if what had happened was absolutely normal. There was certainly more physical contact between us, there were more hugs, we stroked our hands, we leaned against each other when we were sitting on the couch, but there were no sexual contacts, nevertheless, despite this I felt happy, I saw him smile, play, make jokes, it was a beautiful thing.   One evening I see him very discouraged, he keeps me at a distance, I try to understand why and he tells me that he tried to masturbate thinking of me but that the thing didn’t arrive to its obvious end because he felt a terrible sense of rejection, something very strong, not for me but for the idea of sex in itself, it seemed to him like a dirty thing almost a way to do violence against me, to play with my image, something like a lack of respect. In short, he was really uncomfortable and I had the distinct feeling that there was very little to do and that he would never have abandoned the obsessive memory of violence. I hugged him, but he was totally passive, then I said to him: "I love you, Antony!" He replied: "I'll never have sex with you ..." I told him: "I'm just worried about losing you and this would be devastating for me ... " He told me: "I cannot do anything, I tried, but I cannot ... " I didn’t know what to say, maybe a few days before it seemed all too easy, but slowly I was beginning to doubt that with Antony I could create a story, let's say so, a normal story, that is even with a bit of sex, I don’t say much, but at least a little to convince me that he loved me and didn’t consider me only in relation to the memory of violence. I was beginning to understand that the problem was more serious than I had imagined.   We continued to live together but we removed any behavior that could have even a vague sexual implication, we continued to sleep in the same bed but always wearing pajamas, even during the summer, and he stopped lieing on my legs when we see the TV. We are good friends, yes, true friends, friends who talk about everything with the utmost sincerity, I love him deeply but slowly I lost the confidence that Antony can become my boyfriend. It's been years, almost four years now, Antony and I still live together, sometimes there was even a minimal attempt to sexual approach between us, that has brought more frustration and disappointment than anything else. I think Antony has in fact put aside the idea, I don’t know if we will ever come to share sex, I have many doubts about it, but I know that without Antony I would feel lost.   I never imagined that I could live my life like this, and yet I feel that this is my life, I always hope that things can change, but the first rule, for me, must be the absolute respect for Antony and his problems. For me it is not a renunciation, I have made my choice and I don’t think I would be able to live a different life.   Antony and I really love each other and we are still young and something could always change, but our love will not fail under any circumstances.   I embrace you, Project, or I hope your work will be useful for Antony as it was useful for me.  Charles _________   In conclusion, I must state that the e-mail above is reported in the forum with the consent of both protagonists of the story. The text is in the form of an email but has been agreed so as to avoid any risk for privacy and to be as clear as possible. In particular, the references to the faculty have been significantly modified for reasons of privacy. I must emphasize that, if it is true that this story deals with the consequences of violence and sexual abuse, the situation described is certainly not the worst, because violence and sexual abuse can really have tragic consequences. The two guys mentioned in the story you read, have built a very strong emotional relationship in which sexuality, even if limited and denied is somehow strongly present. I have to underline that I happened several times to talk with guys who had suffered violence or abuse and I could see how much these episodes have weighed on their sexuality and their emotional life. Project   A GIRL IN LOVE WITH A GAY GUY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-02-2018, 12:16 PM - Forum: If a woman loves a gay - No Replies I too have been with a guy who has literally destroyed my life, finally after years of profound solitude (many have consoled me but no one really understood me, not having lived the same things in first person), only in this forum finally I found someone who knows how these situations can be painful. Even my ex, while never having loved me, obsessively sought me when I left him, and I came back with him many times, he had declared his feeling to me too early, he used to kiss me mechanically ... it's all so familiar, so similar to what a had read many times on the forum!   My ex is also very misogynist. He writes very angry postings on Facebook in which he says that in his life he has been only with some bitches, for him a woman is worth the other, and when I asked him reassurance about us he seemed amused not giving me any answer, he was sorry for my "affective rants", he said I was stupid because I was a girl, a girl who doesn’t like being contradicted, and he would have liked me to be more military, harder, a real shitty woman, solar and strong. Moreover, he compared me to all the women he had known, even to my friends, to my sister, letting me understand that they were better than me.    Then when I tried to leave him he threw himself at my feet and said he had a sickness inside, which led him to treat people badly ... then when I "got back" with him, he immediately became another time the usual asshole. When we had sex it seemed like a funeral march, it was something that he did without joy, and I didn’t know what he was thinking about, but he never hugged me warmly, never pampered if not with embarrassment and a sort of disgust, superficial caresses, then he immediately he used to snort saying I was a person accustomed to ask for too much. He liked, however, to receive cuddles, like a child, with the excuse that he was sick. I felt like I was his mother or a whore to be despised, depending on the moments. You cannot understand, or perhaps only you who read here, you can understand that suffering, that absurdity I have experienced.   But I do not think I'm a victim because I partly knew he was gay. I was aware of some things, the relationship he had with his best friend and his anaffectiveness, the relationship he had with his mother (this is perhaps a common place), the total disinterest he had for intimacy with me ... It was as if he was missing * that thing *, and I don’t want to say the penis, but the instinct to be close to me emotionally and physically, which then becomes a body in the sexual act. He is fixed with girls, he always speaks with this tone of ... I don’t know, of blame, horror, it is not clear why he runs behind them, according to what he tells about it, and in general girls refuse even his friendship because he is not able to enter their sympathies, treating them as badly as he usually does.   All this is despite his being a handsome guy, that pushes initially all girls to speak to him and become curious about him (he is also clever and witty, original and creative) ... Looking back I know that he loves me very much, he simply doesn’t accept me for what I’m: a woman. He used to say that I was playing the role of the female while I behaved in an absolutely natural way. He used to watch me cry in silence as if he could not connect with my pain. Sometimes he was kind, he was not a monster, let's be clear. But he couldn’t be a loving guy. He used to show me affection only in the scene in which he was ill and I took care of him as a mother-nurse, and he in the grip of his "depression" (which I suspect is his repression) pretended to be dying and asked me to soothe his pain with my magical power or something, he asked me to feel his heart, to be near him ... all the things he missed in normal moments, only that they were totally disconnected from the sexual dimension. His sexuality was all sadism in practice.   I talked a lot about him because what we lived still hurts. We were very close, symbiotic, and we really loved each other, even if we hurt ourselves and it is better for both of us to stay away (these situations are so absurd and contradictory) ... I didn’t say anything about myself because I was with him even though I felt he was gay. But I want to say it because other people can pass through here and they could benefit from my experience as it happened to me.   So, first of all, I could not be sure that he was gay. He used to throw me many clues but he never told me it clearly and openly. Nor could he do it, because the problem between us was just that, he could not open up with me, there was place only to hurt me to vent his pain and to lie (even to himself), tell me stories, sell me his fictitious personality … there was no space neither to listen to me nor to truly express himself. If he is really gay, I don’t think he has accepted it at all, and if he has accepted it he denies it with all his strength.   Second: having a guy probably homosexual but who can have sex with women and has really sex with you from a certain point of view is a good move if you're an insecure girl, because you know he cannot betray you. And also because (sorry if I use a stereotype but in my case it was so) with a gay guy you can have a friendship that with a straight guy is impossible to have. I remember that I really appreciated his patience, his passion for psychology, his gossip, his eye for aesthetics, the way we could talk for hours about how our male friends were, how they reasoned and so on ... then when we wanted to, we also had sex, and I didn’t feel tested by him, because I knew he was thinking more than anything to himself while we were doing it, it was the affection towards me and his need to "unload" that motivated him, not my desirability as a woman ... The price I paid for this "comfortable" relationship was the frustration of my real need, which is not only physical but also emotional and psychological. I had much more desire than him, and he began to say that I was nymphomaniac, he went around saying that even after we had separated. So it was the fault of both of us for me. I knew, deeply, that I wasn’t really in love with him. He missed that light in the eyes that seemed to me to be the most important characteristic of the man I dreamed to have beside me. But when I tried to get away he was chasing me in every way. When I changed the phone number, he  wrote to my sister, to my best friends, insistently, to know where I was ... He didn’t respect my very simple request to be left alone to get over our story. When he thought I had canceled him he tried to come back with me. Perhaps he didn’t want to lose me because I had been more or less the only one who had seen him, albeit consciously deluding herself, like the straight man he wanted at all costs to be. Losing me meant losing the person who most believed in his artificial personality, the one he spent and still spends his life to sculpt and finish, full of artificial justifications about why he's not normal, he is not like the other guys, he cannot stay in touch with people or women, because women are stupid and have to be more like men ...    There is perhaps a third reason, sweet-bitter, that pushed me to stay with him, apart from the fear of a true love and the fear of be wrong about him, and it's a mixture of voyeurism and pity. Something morbid, a curiosity almost like a reporter. He seemed to me and still seems, a striking case of how the repression can completely destroy the life of an individual.   Standing near to him I lived a kind of perverse reality show in which I expected at every step that he betrayed himself and that it turned out that he was gay with irrefutable proofs, or better I expected him to confess it clearly. Although perhaps I would have preferred to sadistically catch him on the fact, as in a yellow. I cannot really blame him for his feeling himself cornered and with his back to the wall or for his continuous questioning the sincerity of my love, because there was also a dark element in it, and I knew it. It seemed to me also my legitimate compensation for all the things I endured from him.   With the time I accepted the situation, I understood that it was not me who was wrong, that I cannot change him, that he is like that with everyone and not only with me because he suffers deeply. Sometimes I would like to help him, but I don’t know how to do it and I tend to say that maybe because I was his only girl and he was my most important guy in spite of everything ... maybe I'm the last person who can help him. And this is very sorry for me because nobody has ever been so close to me, and for him it's substantially the same ... Now I hope the future leads me to a normal story, with a guy who wants to kiss his girlfriend, to cuddle her, to stay well together with her, and all this keeping calm and living quietly. It seems impossible to me because I’m very cynical about it, partly because of traumas related to my parents. I'm afraid that if I met a good guy I wouldn’t be attracted to him. But okay, I'll see what happens. I needed to tell how much I felt understood on this forum. Thanks again to the OP and to all the others. Greetings.   A GIRL IN LOVE FOR TWO YEARS WITH A REPRESSED GAY GUY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-30-2018, 08:15 PM - Forum: If a woman loves a gay - No Replies I’m reluctantly going out from a story with a repressed guy man I loved and love so much still now, despite all the evil he did to me. I only left him for two weeks ago because I realized that he had never really loved me. I state that I’m 26 years old and he 23.    We met at an internship, we exchanged the numbers and for commitments of both we met two months later to go for a coffee together. Well, that night we talked about this and that, nothing more.   Arrived home I got a text message in which he confessed me his love and he hoped that it was reciprocated. Honestly this thing made me think a lot, because it is unthinkable to love a person so quickly, especially because he had just come out of a story that had lasted two years. In the following days we started to meet, he seemed really a sweet and tender guy and so at the end I tied myself to him and after a week or so we got together, even though initially I was a little hesitant.   The first kiss was sought by him, and so even the first time we made love it was he the one who did the first step, let's say it all happened fast enough.   After only 3 weeks, he wanted to take me to his parents because he cared very much about this thing, and so I went into his family.   The more time passed the more that sweet and good guy became a distant memory. He was a type who later was discovered to be a great liar, but of the chronic ones; even though he knew he had lied to me he managed to treat me badly and to tell me bad things because I had allowed myself to doubt him. I don’t tell you how many tears I have shed, he often and gladly treated me badly even when I worried about him.   For example, once we were at the beginning of our engagement, he had to take an exam at the university, so in the afternoon, as usual, I called him to know how it went. Immediately after seeing my text messages and my calls  he turned off the phone, and I, desperate, not knowing what had happened and imagining that something had not gone well with the exam, I decided to go to his house to see how he was and to lift a little his spirits, in case.   I arrive behind the door and find him ready to go out with his roommate friend to buy something, I saw him quite serene, but seeing me he got angry, he took me aside and told me that he didn’t want to answer because he was nervous because he hadn’t taken the exam and I would never have to allow myself to go to his house without warning. I felt very bad of course, because instead of appreciating that his girlfriend was worried about him, he got angry, and I didn’t understand why he was calm when he was with that friend and became almost rancorous with me! He was always like that with me, if he was nervous about his business he treated me badly for no reason, he told me the worst things, while for his friends he was another person.   He didn’t even want me to approach his phone for a matter of privacy and so over time I discovered he was hiding many things from me: he messaged secretly with other girls.   I have always been very sincere with him and I wanted him to do the same, because if he didn’t do anything wrong he wouldn’t need to hide. At the beginning he was really a chronic liar, he even came to lie about his past. Over time and with various speeches that I did he changed enough.   On a sentimental level instead I found myself with a person completely different from what he was at the beginning. He was not the type who kissed me  on my cheek, who hugged me tightly, who cuddled me, these things were not spontaneous for him. Even when he was kissing me I didn’t feel passion and complicity, sometimes I happened to have to interrupt a kiss because it seemed no more than a play consisting in rhythmically move the tongue! I felt that those kisses were detached, and he justified his mistakes and his behavior as "inexperience".   Even on a sexual level things were not going very well, he was very selfish, and we made love quite rarely because he was always stressed and tired. Only once I allowed myself to say with all the sweetness "I want you" but the ruckus broke loose, he began to shout against me and tell me that I didn’t understand that he was tired and that I used to make love only for "venting". I don’t tell you the tears! As usual I was the one who had to pay for everything and who felt bad about the discussions, he, on the contrary, was totally indifferent, and rather than clarifying he preferred to go for a good night's sleep. I thought it was a matter of character. Once after a discussion in which I had finished crying because he had treated me badly, he had understood that he was wrong and in order to show himself really sorry (I saw him out of the corner of the eye) he licked his hand and then wetted his eyes. I was puzzled by that gesture, but I didn’t say anything to prevent him from being uncomfortable.   Returning to the previous speech, to prevent him from reacting badly, I waited for him to make the first step to make love, based on how he felt! The intercourse, however, wasn’t very satisfying, he liked better to be masturbated by me rather than to make love classically. In time, talking about it, however, I made it clear to him that it was more important for me to make love classically because it was much more beautiful and intimate in a couple in love and so he changed his behavior to please me.   I had always noticed that his penis was not hard enough and that came out almost nothing of sperm. Initially talking to him he wanted me to believe it could be a pathology. In time he confessed to me that he used to masturbate 5-6 times a day, and from there I understood why he almost never wanted to make love. This thing made me feel very ill, because I thought that it was I was who was the problem, to be ugly and undesirable, so much so that my boyfriend preferred to do it by himself.   He simply told me that he loved me and that this was his longtime habit. I remember sadly the first night on vacation where we had the chance to sleep in the double bed together. As soon as I approached him looking for cuddles he turned away and with a serious and annoyed tone told me: "turn the other way and sleep!", I remained silent, I did not understand why he reacted like that, I did as he told me and without making him notice I cried a lot.   I come now to tell an episode that dates back to a period before his "crisis". One afternoon he had to study with a very esteemed friend, his college mate. We should have met after they had finished studying. That evening for no apparent reason he treated me badly with an unprecedented wickedness, told me that I had ugly dark circles, that my hair was ugly and he also pointed out other physical defects with a face literally "disgusted". Obviously I was felt badly, and my self-esteem was affected again.   A few weeks later (we are talking about a year ago) it was a period when he was very nervous and he treated me very badly, he came to tell me that we could not be together because he could not love me, and he would never have succeeded, that he didn’t want make fun of me anymore and delude me. He said that in his own way he had loved me, but that always, not only with me then, he couldn’t feel feelings for anyone, even in old stories, he couldn’t even cry (and now I understand why he thought I was pretending when I cried because of him).   He asks me not to abandon him and I, who was anyway very attached to him, understand his discomfort and decide to stay close to him to try to understand where his malaise was coming from. In this period I try to talk a lot and to find the origin of his discomfort. He manages to tell me that he, compared to the other guys, he has never felt much attraction for women, for example if he saw a girl in a miniskirt he felt nothing at all. He comes to hypothesize to be gay, and he seems more and more convinced of it to the point of wanting to stay forever on his own because he would never have accepted the truth.   His dream would have been to go away and live his life away from everyone.   In this period I am his confidant and try to pull out of him the toad he had inside. It also comes out that as a child he discovered sexuality with an uncle 9-10 years older. In this "game" he had to masturbate his uncle, and he did it for a while ... he didn’t tell me more. However I try to reassure him and try to minimize everything by saying that anyway they are experiences that can happen when sexuality is not yet developed and doesn’t mean that for this he is gay. I was convinced that maybe he was becoming obsessed by the idea of being gay, and that anyhow he was not.   When he told me this, it was as if he felt a bit of resentment towards this uncle, as if his uncle had taken advantage of him who at the time was a boy, somehow an easy prey. But in reality he loves this uncle (I too know this uncle), he loves him very much and vice versa, this uncle loves him very much. He has always considered him a good person ... for him he is his best uncle!   Once become aware of such thing and seeing his discomfort I propose to go together with to a psychologist but in the end he is never ready to go, always postpones until he ends up saying that he doesn't need it.   In the meantime he, convinced that we cannot go back together, for my own sake, pushes me to go out with other guys and stay only friends with him, and slowly he moves away more and more. At the end I decide to go out with a friend with whom there had been something in the past, even to test his reaction. Starting from this episode he approached me again telling me that he loved me, that he had only had a bad time and that he wanted to care about me. Shortly thereafter, after 3 months of "friendship", a little naively perhaps, because I was too much in love with him, I believe him and we come back together.   Things with him are not going very well, he continues to be nervous and stressed for no apparent reason, the exams went great, he was finishing all in time, there were only 2 small easy exams to overcome and he was one step away from graduation. Secretly he began to smoke because of anxiety, and in his life he had never smoked! Even with me things were not good, on a sexual level I was not looking for a lot, and every time we made love he lose the erection, and sometimes even blamed me because he said he saw me absent and it was not true at all!   Just two months after our returning together, he falls again into crisis, we are in late July, last year, and he once again come to tell me that he doesn’t love me, and never will, that the fault is not mine but he doesn’t feel feelings for anyone; he leaves me this time for two and a half months, in August, the first month, he sent me messages telling me that he loved me, that he was wrong and that he wanted to see me again, but he never did anything concrete to see me again.   In September and mid-October it disappears completely and afterwards he goes back to show himself sending me a lot of text messages and I, tired and still hurt, I call him and ask him to leave me in peace after all the evil he did to me.   He arrives up to tell me that he has been a month with another girl, and punctually like always, also because he saw me agitated, because it seemed that I was the problem, he starts to totally denies what he had just said perhaps for fear of losing me, but I don’t believe him.   I find him one morning behind the door with a bouquet of flowers and my heart still weak could not say no! He told me that he had only left because he was stressed out by the thesis but that he always loved me, it was nonsense but the heart sometimes doesn’t want to see certain things and I believed him! He told me that during this period he did nothing and told me that he had been with a girl for a month just to know if I was engaged with someone else (the reality is that he had disappeared also with text messages for a month so I'm well aware that the story he told me is just a lie). Honestly I think he could do it because, not feeling anything for anybody, according to his thought,  one girl or other doesn't matter at all, the important thing is to appear heterosexual, especially if it is a dear friend of his the one who introduces him to the girls in question ... all easy girls!   Things immediately went wrong, even the first time we did it as soon as we got back together his erection faded and his penis became soft quite immediately and so all the other times, he didn’t have a good (hard) erection. I didn’t feel in him the desire to have sex with me, as I have never felt it in two years of our story. Many times I told him that I had the impression that he mechanically made love, and he punctually got mad at it! Lately he told me that those caresses, those kisses and those cuddles he did to me, which he never had done before, were a play, were only a "recitation" because he hadn’t really changed. I felt very bad, and even more, because I believed he had unlocked himself since at the beginning I had asked him to make me some cuddle and do me some caress every now and then.   I was wrong! He punctually said that it was not true and that he had said it because he was nervous ... I think instead that it was just when he was nervous that he was really telling me how things were ... with a cold mind he was inclined to deny everything not to let me get away.   One of the last times we made love, immediately after putting the condom, in a few seconds, without giving me even time to undress, his erection became soft, and once again he blamed me saying "Asshole! Hurry up!"; understanding his embarrassment I didn’t even answer, it was clear that it was not my fault! It was he who, in his haste to put on a condom, had given me no time to undress! Usually, knowing his problem, I preferred to wait a while and was not in a hurry. The fact is that I was tired of his humiliations ... once, after we did, perhaps because I had kept inside the anger for his gratuitous wickedness, I cried ... and he obviously believed I was pretending! I don’t even know how he could have thought such a thing ... and oh well!    I arrive to the drop that broke the jar and that made me say "now it’s enough" even if I love him I want a little love for myself! While I was doing oral sex on him he was very excited with a fantasy so much so that he expressed it aloud, in practice he imagined another man who together with him penetrated me. Such a fantasy left me a little disconcerted because I love him I don’t need to think about anything else, I only need him! I would never enjoy seeing him with another girl, rather I die from jealousy! He told me that it didn’t mean that he didn't love me but that there is a distinction between sex and love.   Then to understand how things really were, I "pretend" to understand his point of view and I tell him that maybe he's right, that maybe I'm a bit closed because with him I conceived only the classical making love. I tell him that I would like to make this fantasy come true, and that I would have been looking for a guy in the chat! At first he refuses but with a little insistence he accepts (at that moment I would have preferred to die) and he advised me to find a young guy, better if already engaged, who was not inclined to fall in love with someone else ... and coming from a different city.   Then he thought of where to do it ... he didn’t know if in the car ... or in some house! However at the end being a little hesitant he decided to drop it for the moment ... maybe later we would have talked about it! Inside me, however, there was a huge disappointment, because I’m convinced that a man who loves would not do a similar rubbish with his woman, but not even for a joke! The fact is that he was angry with me because I didn’t have to play with his imagination and told me that I not having such fantasies I was an amorphous girl.   After two years of great love for him in which if I had been allowed, I would have given my soul for him, if, according to him, thinking only of him when we made love was an "amorphous" thing well, this was not the man I wanted at my side, because as he has often said to me "he never loved me" and certainly he does not know what true love means, I am convinced! And I am even more convinced that he was a repressed gay who for fear of the reality held me bound to him doing me an evil that he couldn’t even imagine.   I'm tired of suffering, I want someone to make me feel loved and that at least cares about me. I still want to believe in true love ... I hope it exists!    I only regret having given an immense love to a guy who has never understood it, because he was too devoid of feelings to be able to perceive mine, I was simply for him "the girl with whom he was" no more and no less than many other girls! Which girl in my place would have accepted so much stress if she hadn't been madly in love? I think certainly none  ... pity he never understood such things!   This is my story ended on 18/4/2014 ... from that day I'm trying a new rebirth, even if we are still at the beginning and for me everything is difficult ... I have to suffer long before I can smile again ... also because this was for me the first big love of my life, and I really believed it! I apologize if I have been too wordy and thank all those who will want to comment on my story, the opinions are always welcome!   FALLING IN LOVE WITH A MARRIED GUY - A VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-27-2018, 10:17 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies I’m 31 years old, I was born and raised in Italy but I lived abroad for many years. I have always been "different" from others, grown up between adults and with a keen interest in being with adults. I figured out that I was gay during high school but the acceptance phase was long and hard. I started declaring myself 5-6 years ago with my female best friend and with my male best friend. I told my parents everything last December, but they had already guessed it. I'm proud of how my dad took it, the person I was most afraid of. Being told by my father that now I would have been even more appreciated, made me feel good.    In more than 31 years I only had a "story" with a guy, 5 years ago. The thing was over after two months for the distance and perhaps because he, just out of a relationship, was not ready to start a new one with me. I had been in love with him, I felt destroyed but then, slowly, I reconstructed a group of friends. I met guys / men, I attended people to understand if and how I liked them. But apart from the infatuations, I have never met a person who, in addition to reciprocating certain feelings, was also compatible with me.   Until August of last year, when after two and a half years of peace of mind, a guy writes to me on Planet Romeo. He was a few years younger than me, intriguing, we began to chat, cuddling each other. It has to be noted that, despite I said I was not looking for sex, he continued to write: a true rarity. 4 days later we go on Whatsapp and the same day he tells me that he was married. I still remember the scene: I was in a coffee break, I felt stunned.   I asked him what he was doing in a chat like Planet Romeo and if his wife knew. Of course his wife was totally unaware. He apologized, he thought he had already told me it the first night we had chatted, and tells me that he understands that I don’t want to meet him anymore. But voice inside me told me to meet him. I wanted to understand, only understand. We continue to write to each other nonstop, I from my office (empty for summer holidays), he from his workplace. The next day we decide to see each other spontaneously and I invite him to have a coffee at my house. The moment he enters my house and extends his hand to introduce himself, I feel a lump in my throat and my stomach closes. Beyond the fact that already in the picture I had understood that he was my type, seeing him live was love at first sight.   The strange thing is that I, generally very nervous, after not even 2 minutes, was calm and happy with him on the balcony drinking coffee as if we were friends of a lifetime. I felt so comfortable, as if we had always known each other.   Because of the heat, we move into the living room, in the cool, and we keep talking. He tells me about him, born and raised abroad, in this country for a couple of years and married for just over two years with a girl from here known in his country years before. He tells me that he has problems with his wife (too little sex in his opinion) and that he has many doubts, that he doesn’t feel integrated, that his linguistic knowledge is not enough to work in his field, blablabla. He asks me about me, I tell my story. We never stop talking a second ... we have so many things to say ... everything is so natural ... and an hour later he tries to kiss me, I reject him and say that I have to reflect on what I'm doing. He understands and does not insist.   He tells me that at the time of the university he had thoughts for the guys, but he never tried (perhaps for fear, or I don’t know what for) and that these thoughts never ceased, that he masturbates while watching gay porn and feels guilty ... and tells me that, when he got married, he promised to abandon and repress this side of his life because of which he feels guilty. A few months before meeting me, however, he cannot take it anymore and decides to meet a man with whom to have sex. He says that before he met me he had met three men in all and he had sex with them, cheating on his wife. He says that sex with men is exciting but at the same time it disgusts him, and he reiterates how the feelings of guilt are destroying him ... he loves his wife, he wouldn’t want to betray her ... but he needs guys, although he continues to repeat that sex with men doesn’t convince him. And I tell him that, perhaps, this is due to his non-acceptance. Strange situation, I think ... then he says he is 80% happy and tells many other things. We say goodbye, I accompany him to the door and he goes home.    No more than 10 minutes after, climbed on the train, he writes to me: “where have you been for all my life? I have eternally been looking for someone like you.” In the following days we continue to write so ... uninterruptedly ... in the evening we say goodnight and good morning in the morning. Crazy things. He writes to me that he would like to see me again ... and, please, don’t ask me why, I accept.   4 days later we meet again at my house, we talk, drink coffee, we kiss and start cuddling (not sex). We also spend 4-5 hours, after my work, talking, cooking together, having dinner, etc. I repeat, crazy things. When the train is about move, from the train itself he writes to me that I am his ideal man, he wonders how I can be single and above all he tells me that 4-5 years before he would have had no doubts about me, but that at that time he was 100% hetero and shy.   And he asks me if, in a future life, he can have a chance to be together with me. I’m clearly upset ... you can imagine the emotions of hear such things from the person you spontaneously like better ... Even if then he tells me that, unfortunately, in this constellation someone would have suffered (his wife). The story goes on ... or better starts ... we meet every time we can, I go to work, he changes the shifts to be with me at my house ... we go together to the cinema ... go walking in the evening ... his wife, unaware of everything, works until late. On Saturdays, very often, he has to work ... so we get to see each other 4-5 times a week and we often spend Saturday nights together, either by him at work or at my house ... After work we walk together towards the station ... and then it happens that one evening he takes me by hand and in the station he kisses me. The first time I kiss a man in public. And he, married, keeps on going hand in hand with me with the risk of being seen by someone.   My family has always made me feel loved, but the sensations I start feeling are special ... this feeling light ... desired, etc. ... Two weeks later we end up in bed ... and there we understand that the harmony is total. I sincerely hoped that he would turn out to be a landslide in bed. At least I would have had a reason to close ... to forget him ... All the story really scared me. We go on ... in September I have two weeks of vacation ... he insists to take me to the airport ... and a week later he comes to pick me up and spends his Saturday with me. Obviously he had told his wife a lot of fake stories. He feels uncomfortable because he had lied and also because he is fine with me.    That Saturday he tells me that in the previous week, while I was at a sea site, he thought that maybe he can live without me ... but anyway he was always with me. Even during the second week of vacation, while I was at my house, we keep on hearing and calling each other. And then he writes to me that he misses me, etc. ... I come back home ... the story goes on. He asks me if I'm in love, I do not answer him. But he understands. He says it's not right for me, that I deserve a man who is 100% available, not one with problems like him. But we are in touch every day ... messages ... he often comes for lunch in the neighborhood where I work ... even just to spend an hour with me ... and to shake my hand under the table, at the restaurant.   Speaking of his wife, he says that he loves her but that sex with her is not enough ... that they do it once a week if all goes well. He says he has talked to her and that she only needs no more that. He often cries when we see each other. When we make love he's in seventh heaven ... we talk, we laugh ... there's total involvement. He says that with me it's something else, not just for the performance but for the harmony, for what you feel ... trust ... the bond. Anyway ... then he cries ... he feels guilty ... and tells me that he loves her ... etc. .. But then we do it another time. When he leaves my house, I never understand how he feels.   Then he goes on vacation, at the end of October, with her. For three weeks we stay in touch very little because there is no field. When he comes back he closes the story with me. He says he cannot take it anymore, he says it's not right for me nor for her. He says that he got married and made her a promise ... he tells me that he loves her ... that sex with her is not bad ... that having sex with me doesn’t convince him ... And here, for the first time I burst: I explain to him that when you are really happy there is no reason to look for sex elsewhere and especially not with the opposite sex. I tell him that maybe he didn’t realize it ... but what binds us is not a friendship ...   I didn’t tell him it's love ... I told him that in my opinion he feels a great affection for his wife ... but that this is different from love, and that, always in my opinion, he suffers from internalized homophobia. He asks me what the solution would be and I reply that, the best thing would be to take a break with her, to stay alone (even without seeing me) and understand what he really wants. He tells me it's not true ... he tells me that he started going with men because he felt not integrated, without a work and depressed. And I tell him that if all men betrayed their wife with other men for the above reasons, we would no longer have happy marriages. The usual things ... I explained that he must look for the reasons, talk to a psychologist, etc. I explained to him how it was for me ... and that in any case, the fact of feeling the need to stay / go with men, combined with homo-affectivity, has its roots in his own sexuality.   I was patient ... a lot, but hearing from him that sex with his wife was not bad ... and then the opposite ... well, it made me go out of my mind, even if in that moment I didn’t realize clearly why. I spent a horrible week. Empty, discouraged, sad, alone. The following Saturday I wanted to see him again to talk to him and in the end we made "peace" if we can say so. And we started seeing each other again and again, etc. For the first time, it seemed to me that he understood that my goal was not that he left his wife ... but that he was calm, happy, fulfilled. Everything went on normally ... we saw each other when we could, I went to get him at work. As for the afternoons, his wife had changed jobs and now worked with office hours, he could no longer lie and so, to see him, I choose the free day of the week coinciding with his. He came to me at home, he reached me in bed, he woke me, we spent time together ... he helped me with the work at home ... as a couple that we were really not. I was the lover in love with a man of another person.   Then, at the end of November, he gets his much-hoped job ... and the same evening, celebrating with me (and not with his wife), he tells me that he loves me ... in his own way ... but he loves me. I was happy, I was beginning to hope to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Then I spent the Christmas holidays with my parents ... we stayed in touch normally ... I didn’t tell him that I had done my coming out so as not to burden him with further worries and when I got back we met ... and there, crying, I he tells me that he has decided to close ... that he wants to save his marriage ... that he made a promise to his wife ... that he is fine with me, but neither sex nor life with a man convince him ... etc. ... a bitter blow. We cried for two hours .. and he told me that he doesn’t want to lose me ... that he loves me, that I’m important etc. He didn’t leave me for a minute. He said he had not yet made a choice ... but that he could not take it anymore. He even told me that he had to be careful not to mention me too much ... otherwise his wife would have asked questions. He tells me he cannot give me what I want from him, but that I'm very important in his life and he doesn’t want to lose me ... he wants to keep hearing me.   But in the meantime he attended chats on the net ... and I saw him online many times... I thought: he wants to save his marriage ... but he’s always chatting with other men and maybe he also meets them! Well, do you know what? We continued with good morning, goodnight ... uninterrupted messages ... we conducted a relationship without sex, because I was afraid of the HIV, ... just like before.   He assured me that he saw only a friend in me ... then, he was constantly looking for me and wanted to see me regularly ... he came regularly to my house for dinner ... when his wife was out to dinner with her friends ... I told him more than once that I was sorry ... but even if he didn’t admit it, we were not friends ... because two friends don’t hug each other ... don’t give each other kisses on the neck ... and above all they don’t have an erection with every hug. When I complained it he said I was exaggerating ... My friends said he was an egoist and I had to close. But I, in order not to lose him, accepted everything.   At a certain point he tells me that his wife would like to meet me ... and that everything would be easier for him if she knew me ... because he wanted to integrate me in his life ... And I tell him that I would never do such a thing, that seamed to me disrespectful and disgusting. And what was the reason? If she had known me, he would not have to answer any more questions ... He asked me it, even though I had never asked too many questions about his wife and had never spoken badly about her, not even once.   Nevertheless, I asked myself what kind of wife doesn’t want to have sex with her husband at that age and above all I asked myself how she didn’t notice her husband's moods. Perhaps it was because I realize quickly if something / someone doesn’t go but I had the impression that his was a marriage already finished. I carried on the thing feeling uncomfortable, not sleeping at night, not being able to concentrate on the studies ... then I tried to discuss it with him ... and he cried a lot, etc. ... until in the end of March we went to walk in the mountains and once arrived at the top I extracted the thermos of coffee and a pack of biscuits ... and he told me: "Why are you doing all this? Why do you bring all the things that I like?" I told him that I do it for all the people I love (which is absolutely true). And he said: "But do you know that ours is only a friendship?" ... and I didn’t say anything. I just thought: "You tell me it all the time ... but only because it makes you feel good".   Then I proposed to go for dinner after the walk and he told me: "And how would you see this dinner? As a romantic meeting or as a dinner with friends?" And there I really lost patience ... we walked for more than an hour in silence, then we sat on a bench ... always in silence. And after ten minutes he says to me: "Don’t you have anything to say?" And I let myself explode: I told him that his behavior was unjust, that he didn’t make any choice in order not to have to take a position but in fact he was with her (heterosexuality of the facade) and nevertheless continued to get all the attentions on my part (homosexuality).   I reiterated the fact that it was not right, either for me or for her ... and that I could not take it anymore. My life was not peaceful. The chat topic too came out. I told him that I knew he was always online, etc. ... and he swore to me that he had not attended other men after me but that, as I knew, he could not stand without that part. And I screamed in face of him that it would have been right to let his wife go because she had every right to live with a man who really loved her. My friends said I couldn’t really know if he really loved her. And I repeated that when there is love, certain things are not to be done. And that if he were in love with his wife, he wouldn’t be so attached to me as a lover. Also because I consider myself able to recognize the difference between love and well-being.   I patiently explained to him that I thought it was right not to see /hear each other anymore. I advised him to consult a psychologist (we had been talking about it for months) and to solve his problems. And then I added that, if his problems were resolved in my direction, my door would be always open to him, but as a partner, not as a friend. Well ... I have not seen him since the beginning of April. The same evening he wrote me a myriad of messages ... he left me vocal messages asking me to think again about it ... crying ... that it was not right to close a friendship ... telling me that I was not behaving well.   He proposed to me to let me heard even less, in order not to stress me too much, etc. ... I didn’t listen to him, I held on. We have not seen each other since. He looks for me regularly ... once a week he writes ... he misses me, he concludes the messages with a big hug ... every excuse is good to write. I sometimes answer politely but in a detached way.   Clearly his wife is still unaware of everything ... but so ... why tell her strange things... he is straight!! His perpetual searching for me makes me sick ... but it gives me the confirmation that he doesn’t accept my choice and that he cannot be without me. In a message he wrote to me that he had represses himself so as not to write to me. On Monday I received a message from him: "I went by the psychologist and told him about you. I cried a lot. I miss you a lot. I hope your phrase in your Whatsapp profile doesn’t refer to me, otherwise I don’t understand why you don’t make yourself heard. I hope you're better and that I can go to the concert with you in June."   In March he had bought tickets for a concert to go there together in June. I replied to him with a long message ... reiterating the fact that I hope the psychologist can help him find himself and live lightly ... explaining that I feel not at ease, that I miss him more than ever but staying close is not a viable solution. As for the concert, I told him that I cannot give him what he needs ... as he cannot give it to me. And that he can go there with other friends or with his wife. His answer was "dumb!". The next day I wrote to him, just to know if he had slept. I did it because I needed it. I know what it means to go to the psychologist the first time and I felt compelled to write to him. He replied that he is well, that he had dreamed so much and that he feels alone ... he misses me, but he cannot expect anything more from me. And still a hug ...   Sorry if I was verbose ... this is my story ... at the moment, despite five months have passed since January, I feel really uncomfortable. I'm in love more than ever and I think he realized that maybe I'm more important than what he wanted to believe. But as my best friend says: "My dear, the facts, only the facts matter. And he's there with her, not here with you!" My opinion is that he is gay, repressed, with a strong homophobia and that he still has to make his acceptance path. I believe that in life we need balls and courage to follow our heart and I think he is not ready yet. I don’t know how to behave anymore. I don’t know how to stop this story and go further. The idea of seeing other men makes me vomit. And the fact that I cannot have the love of my life (because I know that we are exactly this one for the other), it tears me apart. Pages (55): « Previous 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 ... 55 Next » Jump to page: