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GAY COUPLES AND POLYGAMY
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GAY COUPLES IN BED WITH O...
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  GAY COUPLES AND TENDERNESS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 12-15-2021, 11:40 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

A strange thing happened today. He calls me and asks me if I would like him to come over, which in other words is a proposal to have sex together. That's not the weird thing because it has been happening and also pretty regularly for years, the weird thing will be the way. I was dead tired, but I cannot deny that I missed his presence and I immediately said yes. In short, when I see his phone call appear on my smartphone ... well, let's say that it’s never indifferent to me, I’m pleased, but sometimes it makes me a little anxious, but lately the anxiety tends to disappear and the reaction is totally positive . Following the usual script, therefore, I knew more or less what I could expect, however pleasant things but with some doubts about how the evening would end, that is whether or not he would go away in a bad mood, as it had happened many times, not to say almost always, except perhaps in the very last period. On the phone he seemed to be in a pretty good mood and that encouraged me to say yes right away, and then I honestly missed him and had noticed several times during the day that he hadn't been in touch for almost two weeks now. He arrived after half an hour and was smiling, maybe not exactly smiling, but he seemed calm, he behaved with the utmost ease, because he knows my house very well, evidently he too felt reassured by me and by the fact that I immediately said yes. In fact, if I think about it, I must say that other times I have made too many stupid problems instead of saying yes right away and this must have been one of the most frequent causes that made him change his mood. Being answered evasively to a proposal to have some sex together must be really unpleasant, however this time it didn't happen. This time I was tired but very well disposed towards him, and in particular quite well disposed from our last meetings which I liked a lot and left a very positive impression on him too. In short, when he arrives, he immediately goes to the bedroom, undresses and gets under the covers, because it is actually cold in the room. I turn up the heat and go into bed too. We hug, naked against naked, is a very strong but above all very sweet sensation. I’m very impressed by that hug, because it’s very long and because it’s the first time we have hugged each other like this. In general, he doesn’t let himself go very easily to affectionate gestures of this type, then we move on, neither of us says a word but he is very sexually involved, which however, practically, almost always happens to him, after a while I begin to feel tired and I tell him that I need a break, he sits up in bed, meanwhile the air conditioner has warmed up the room a little and it is not as cold as before, I also sit in bed and ask him “How are you”, he replies: "Good." And I can see that it’s not a way of saying.
 
I take his hand and kiss it. Generally he doesn't like these gestures too much, but this time he accepts them, he has no comments, his eyes are a little red, then he closes his eyes and I lean resting my head on his shoulder. He asks me: "Would you like to continue?" He clearly refers to sex. I answer him: "Of course!" And I add that I had been waiting for his call and I wouldn't change him with anyone else in the world and that when he’s by me I feel happy, he says nothing, comes out of bed because it starts to be hot, he stretches on the blanket and I look at him … well, he's really very beautiful. I also go out of bed. I think maybe  in those moments some very emotional thought is crossing his mind, maybe he's thinking about people I don't know or I know only by name, or about some memories of when he was child or boy. I didn't ask him questions, I just told him he had wet eyes and he made a minimum smile, then he closed his eyes. After we finished having sex, usually, he looks at his cell phone to see what time it is and tells me that he has to go right away, this time it didn't happen, he took his cell phone, he looked at the time and said: "It's late but I don't feel like going away ..." I told him: "Then stay here and you’ll go tomorrow morning." He replied with a lift of eyelashes, he seemed quite possibilist, then he added: "No, tomorrow morning I must be at work very early, I really have to go home ...". But it was the first time ever that the idea that he could also sleep at my house crossed his mind. It was very late, much later than the other times, but he didn't go immediately anyway. I caressed him a lot, something he is beginning to understand, something that at first was totally out of his mind, he replied with a very light kiss, a gesture more hinted than done and told me: "Let me go otherwise I'm too late. ... when I’ll arrive at home I’ll send you an SMS so you don't worry." Even that of the SMS was an absolute novelty. In other moments, if I asked him a similar thing he would answer me that there was no need and it would be over, today he was he the one who proposed it. When he left I felt happy, not of the fact that he had left, it is obvious, but of all the evening spent together, it seemed like a dream, the realization of something I had wanted for years. I felt he was by me, close as it had never happened before. I felt more clear than usual that he also loves me, in fact I knew it, even if he has never been very expansive, but today I had the impression that he let himself go to some form of more spontaneous and free tenderness. When he was completely dressed to go away I watched him carefully and he was really beautiful and I felt in the seventh heaven because years ago I would never imagine an evening like today.
 
The man who loves me is the only man I have truly fallen in love with. With him I would never have tried anything, it seemed to me an absolutely unattainable goal, but he did it all. He understood that I would probably have run away and he prevented me, he had patience and above all he trusted me. Before knowing him I had other stories but with him it was different from the beginning, everything was much more problematic but also much more serious, when I met him, the 2.0 period of my life began, he put me in crisis but he loved me in another way, in his own way, of course, but he loved me on another level and above all he really cared about me, he never said it with words but showed it with deeds. He had to face my stupidity and my reluctance to believe that something really important could exist between us, he treated me as someone who really cares about him. It didn’t allow me to let my stupidity prevail, it broadened my horizons, it demolished my stupid myths, it made me grow, it made me understand that there were so many things that I judged but of which I understood absolutely nothing and this applies primarily to sex. Having sex with him was not a ritual, with the other guys it was all already codified, with him no, sometimes he displaced me, he gave me answers that made me freeze, they were moments that put me in crisis and that made me think I was inadequate, but all this left no trace. The next day he would call me with his way of being a bit brisk, to make sure I hadn't taken it too badly. Sometimes he would go through moments of deep crisis and he wanted reassurance from me and asked me to go and get him in the most incredible places and at the most incredible hours, and those were emotionally intense moments for him and for me. These are things that have not happened to me with anyone else, we probably had a deep need for each other, together we felt we were building a world capable of resisting everything. Now we talk little but not out of reticence, now we understand each other at the slightest hint, it wasn't always like this but now it is. Today I felt happy, I have not even the slightest fear of the future because he is here, for me it is a certainty, between us sex has a very particular meaning, it is something reassuring, and above all true, it has never been a game, but a form of dialogue, a way of understanding each other, at certain moments there are exchanges of glances that don’t need interpretation and that express feelings better than many words. Today, for me, the most beautiful thing was the after-sex, those twenty minutes in which you can say "I love you" maybe with other words and you feel happy because you just need to look into his eyes to understand that this expression has a value for him too. Today I tasted for the first time what living together with him could be, but there must be no pressure, because living together could also be destructive.
Today that's okay, because we really love each other. I must not want to take away his freedom, he must be free, without constraints of any kind. I feel him like my boyfriend, maybe it is not completely so, but this doesn't matter at all, we love each other and this is the only thing that matters. In certain moments I see that he is really happy to be with me and for me it’s a great satisfaction. If I hadn't known him, my life would have been much more empty. Today I can't conceive of a future without him, and I'm not even afraid of losing him. Years ago I had this fear, today no more, there is deep esteem between us, I don’t see him as a sexual partner, but in a sense just as a life partner, not a casual companion, but one who chose to stay with me, and for him it was an uphill choice, but he made it, he wanted to do it and he also led me to believe it possible. I know he won't go away and I know we won't get tired of each other. Today I experienced moments of profound serenity and I’m already waiting for when we will meet again.

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  GAY COUPLES AND POLYGAMY
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-22-2021, 11:40 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

Hi Project,

I'm not doing well today. I haven't heard from Enzo (actually his name is Lorenzo) for more than 15 days . I'm not sad, basically I know that sooner or later I will heard from him again and I also know that now he has so many important things to think about, so many things that worry him and worry him a lot. When we don't hear from each other for days we don't even send text messages, it has always happened like this. I’m not sad and, in a sense at least, I’m not afraid of losing him, I know well that in a few days I’ll hear from him again, it has happened so dozens of times. I’m not doing well because our relationship is not enough for me. I love him, obviously in my own way, and I also feel quite reciprocated, but I would like more from him. I wouldn’t simply want more, in the sense that if I found someone capable of giving me what I would like, I would feel at ease, I would like more from him, from him and from no one else. First of all I would like him more present but I know that I could ask him anything but this. Would I like to change his character? Well, as in many important things you want everything and the opposite of everything, I would like him to be always exactly like he is, but I would also like him somehow different, I know it's a contradictory discourse, but that's what I think. His silences are often long and make me feel bad, but on the other hand I look for him very rarely, because I think he doesn't have to feel constrained in any way, I would like him to realize that I need him. I know that he only needs me sometimes, for the rest he must feel free and I don't have to ask him any questions and for sure I don't ask him anything, but when he needs me, he admits it even if this makes him feel weak. He treats me with respect and more than respect, but he’s careful to strongly emphasize his autonomy. I have asked myself many times what he really thinks of me, I think that overall his opinion is positive, even if sometimes he tries to widen the distances and certainly not to reduce them. On the other hand, I have always encouraged him to do so, that is, to feel totally autonomous. He is not my boyfriend, he has his own very complicated affective-sexual world, of which I’m a part too, it is that world that somehow gives him a push to make him go on, his wellbeing as well as his  feeling bad depend on that world. That world is the small nucleus of people who are important to him, I mean who are really important. With him concepts like boyfriend or couple are absolutely out of place, at the beginning he tried to adapt to it, but it was not for him, he lived it as a stretch, as an imposition. Enzo must be accepted as he is and I made my choice, because when he feels happy I feel happy too. He doesn’t think only of himself, he’s not at all selfish, if he cares about you, he really cares about it, but he doesn’t accept limitations to his freedom and wants to be accepted for what he really is, but when he esteems you and loves you he doesn’t let you go, he stays by you, he doesn't forget you, he considers you just like a part of his life, not an accessory or temporary element, he doesn't exclude you from anything, he trusts you. When we met, but not immediately, I began to understand his way of loving. At the beginning I felt terrible, I tried many times to cut ties with him but I never did it because he didn't let me, every time I tried and I started to give him my farewell speeches, to make him understand that I wanted to go away, he didn't stop me, he just said to me: "Okay ...", and he didn't seem upset in the least, then after a couple of weeks he would call me back as if absolutely nothing had happened, he was used to my goodbyes and didn't take them seriously, in reality they weren't goodbyes but a kind of periodic ritual confirmation and he had figured it out before I did. He never told me he wanted to get away from me. He never told me he was in love with me, but not even that he wanted to move away, he never made scenes of detachment, without saying too many words he simply assumed that there would be no detachment anyway. Even if in a limited way, he also talks to me a little about other people who are part of his very private world, to make me understand that that world exists, that he loves me, even if he doesn’t say so explicitly, but that world exists anyway and will not disappear, and obviously exclusivity is not part of his world. Before meeting him I had had other guys, a bit following the classic pattern of engagement and standard gay couple but it never worked, they said too many words, but I never came to understand what they really thought, they still acted on two levels, one of the things that can be said and another of those that cannot be said, and in the end I always found myself displaced because sooner or later something unexpected and unspoken came up, which was however decisive. It has never been like this with Enzo, he tells you everything, then leaves the decision to you, if you choose to stay with him you know there will be no surprises, that is, you know what you are going to encounter. At the beginning it is unsettling, because you cannot delude yourself and you must take note that the story will not be what you dreamed of, because at the beginning one has myths and fables of all kinds in his head, then you begin to understand the meaning of his way of being. I have understood for a long time that he cannot have an exclusive relationship with me, that is, I have understood that for him it is impossible, as far as I’m concerned, things are different, for me there is only Enzo, I would say I’m essentially monogamous, I want to be with him and in order to be with him I don't have to give up anything, he is naturally polygamous, accepting him it’s difficult but when you accept him you realize that it is a different balance but that it can work very well anyway. In his life I don’t feel marginal, I have a specific role and this fact has lasted for years, I understand if he is good or bad from the tone of his voice on the phone and when I understand that he is fine, I'm fine too, no matter why he is fine, he can also be fine because he made love in a satisfactory way with another guy, the important thing is that he is well, that his little world is capable of making him feel good. Enzo doesn’t act, he is simply himself. In the long run, this type of relationship is creating an almost family bond between us. Between us there is also sex, in appearance there is above all if not exclusively sex, but in reality sex is just a way to tell us that we love each other, or at least it is so for me, I tend to see him more as a brother than as a sexual partner. If there were no sex I would be sorry but I believe that, at least for me, nothing would collapse, however I think that sex is a very important component, because it was probably several times, at least at the beginning, the glue that prevented our relationship from dissolving. I have to say that the fact that he has sex with other guys creates two kinds of problems for me: first of all our sexual contacts are much less "technically sexual" than they were at the beginning, when he was trying to build a real couple relationship. This fact, paradoxical as it may seem, has caused a shift from technical sex to pampering, or rather from risky sex to pampering. Reducing, that is, practically eliminating risky behaviors was a decision that matured by itself, let's say that we both took it for granted and I think it is also a sign of common sense on the part of Enzo, who didn’t make problems. Psychologically, well, I can't deny it, but to think not only that he may have been in love with another guy in the past, but that he's presently in love with another guy, it embarrasses me a lot. I know his fantasies aren't all about me and that's not that easy to accept. Sometimes I imagine him in bed with another guy and such a thought upsets me a lot, but in the end this is his nature, if you want to be with Enzo it can only work if you accept that things are so, otherwise you have to find another guy who goes looking for the classic life as a gay couple, but you have to put Enzo apart. If I have to choose between Enzo and his polygamous relationships and another guy in a classic gay couple, well, I prefer to keep Enzo, because there is a real feeling with him. I have never felt betrayed by him, but by others I did. He doesn't use to make promises and speaks clearly, the others made fantastic promises but then the facts didn’t correspond to the words. We haven't spent years of life together, but we have lived through several significant moments of our lives together. I know very well that he will never be all mine but in the end that's not what matters, I remember seeing him in moments when he felt really terrible and really broken, now it's a long time that he's been all in all not so bad, now he makes plans and looks to the future with a positive outlook. Sometimes I think he will do great things, which are already beginning to materialize, and I’m afraid that he can go to work far away, this would be his realization but in a sense it would also be destructive for me and for that small world that is Enzo’s vital drive, and this scares me. Even if our relationship is partial, I wouldn’t want to lose him, I would really be sorry, my life would be much grayer and I think that for him too it would be a form of sudden and violent uprooting, but it is also true that there are trains and planes and that probably nothing would collapse, but that episodic contact that exists now would also be lost and it would be a blow to both of us. Our it’s a real, direct, personal contact, not via the internet. Falling in love is beautiful, but tremendously difficult.

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  GAY COUPLES IN BED WITH OR WITHOUT TROUSERS ON? – PRAISE OF MY GAY PARTNER
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-31-2021, 10:47 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Dear Project,
you perhaps are wondering why I put a title on the email and why I didn’t write “praise of my boyfriend”. First of all because he doesn’t like to feel somebody’s boyfriend, then because he’s no longer a boy, he’s 43, and then because he deserves praise.

I have never had an easy character, I do a lot of small talk, I’m very picky, I split hairs but I always postpone decisions and I’m afraid of everything, that is, I prefer to avoid deciding when I can. I have to admit that there were some guys running after me, I mean they were pretty interested in me, actually those guys weren’t more than five or six, including those who passed like meteors, but of those few guys I always got tired after a short time and they left because they saw me faded and not very participatory. You can understand what real chances I had of finding a true boyfriend. In practice I probably was neither looking for a real boyfriend. I was not closed in principle to such things but they were only eventualities that I was not “concretely” looking for.

Then he enters my life, several years ago now. He’s two years younger than me, but he looks much younger. We know each other at university, we attend the same degree course but I’m in the third year and he has just enrolled. I had noticed him because he was really beautiful, or at least I liked him a lot, he had begun to chat with me, because usually, when you know nobody at all, you start to chat  with the guy who is just nearby, then those five minutes of chat became ten, then twenty, then I asked him where he lived and I told him that I would gladly accompany him home, he smiled at me and said “Thank you!” It all started like this, he didn’t live near the university and so we spent at least 20-25 minutes together every day.

He used to talk to me about his studies, what he wanted to do “when he grew up”, etc. etc., I, in turn, told him about the courses of the following years, the professors and the exams. We didn’t use to talk about personal things, but the habit of accompanying him home become a rule. We couldn’t study together because we had to attend courses of different years but we were fine together. The conversation between us was usually more meaningful for omissions than for admissions, we never talked about girls, what obviously was very significant. We certainly had something in common: never in the disco, we thought above all about studying and building a future, we both felt a certain impatience for our family environment, and above all we were well together.

We started seeing each other also on Sunday morning, officially for cultural reasons but basically just to be together. We were only together in the morning, then at lunchtime I would take him back home because we had to study in the afternoon. Between us a very particular exchange of smiles was very common, on Sunday mornings we played like two kids, we talked nonsense and laughed at everything. I remember that there was an advertising poster of the “consorcio” tuna that he read emphasizing the separation between  the words “con-socio” (that in Italian mean “with a mouse”), and started to laugh and the laughter became unstoppable!

Time passed, the situation was pleasant, very pleasant, but it did not evolve. Obviously I had done more than a little thought about him, but I had a thousand psychological problems, for me sex was just a matter of fantasy, I had the idea of being able to really try it but I rejected it with a lot of pseudo-arguments, from the fear of diseases, to the fact that I would have disappointed him, up to moral scruples of various kinds, a residue of my Catholic upbringing, in the sense that I thought that somehow having sex with him would have been a bit like making him have a negative experience, let's say how to dirty him a little etc. etc .. He, in theory, did not know that I was gay, as I did not know about him, we had never explicitly told about, but, after six months, only an idiot could have had doubts and I had them and I felt like an idiot.
 
I have begun to have doubts like Hamlet: do I tell him or do I not tell him? But I didn't tell him anyway. I didn't ask myself what he could think (which would have been the healthiest thing), I thought about what I could or could not do myself and that's it, but in this way the situation didn't go on. Then we started talking about things a little more personal and I started to be afraid that he was going to put me on the corner, but he didn't, he exposed himself first and told me a half story with a friend of his, who that did not even look at him, but that he liked a lot, in practice this was his coming out. In that situation it is obvious that you have to tell him about you too and I did and I said, "I've never been with a guy, but I guess I'm not ready for these things yet. "The morning ended just like all the previous Sundays, I accompanied him back home and we said goodbye, I noticed that this time we didn't shake hands, as we always did, but he smiled at me looking into my eyes and said: “Today I’m very happy” and I replied: “Me too”.

Project, at that point one would expect the story should go further, he probably expected it, but I would have gladly driven back, I would have liked to cancel that Sunday morning, because by now I had taken a step with no return and I would have liked not to have done it. It is paradoxical, you are finally in the condition that would lead you to have sex with the guy you dreamed of, because for me he was really at the top, the others were less than zero in comparison, and instead you are afraid and try to postpone, to take time, to avoid any decision. After all, it was he the one who had decided coming out, as usual I would not have done anything, and I wondered what I would have done if he had tried to take another step forward. Here the temptation was great, but so was the fear.

His attempts were very cautious and gradual. The first time he deliberately touched my hand to have a minimum of physical contact with me, I pulled it back, then he repeated the gesture and I let him do, I didn't know what to do, I wanted to go further but I also wanted to leave. I tried to explain, but he was perplexed, he didn't understand, my behavior seemed absolutely absurd to him, let's say pathological.

We both lived with our parents, so we couldn't see each other in the house and obviously, in the car, on Sunday mornings, we could get to hold hands a bit, which we had come to, not without stupid problems on my part and not without anger immediately suppressed on his part. Of course, however, we could not go beyond that level and I must say that this reassured me. I was very excited when I was with him, even just holding each other hands, and he was very excited too.

One Sunday he asks me if I would like to spend a weekend with him, I ask him if he means even sleeping together and he says yes, and I begin to procrastinate as usual, to not answer and pretend nothing is happening and to be distracted, he insists and I tell him I don't feel like it. He makes a face of disappointment and tells me: "Okay, I understand ..." opens the door of the car and leaves. I realize, years later, that he must have felt very discomforted and deceived, because in practice I had refused him. On the other hand, at first I felt like a great man, a moral hero who had said no to him because he really loved him, beyond sex! But then already after an hour I missed him very much, I thought he would never look me in the face again. I was aware  that perhaps not only I had not done anything good for him but I had offended him in a very profound way. But even in this situation I didn't pick up the phone to tell him how I felt, I kept for myself my discomfort and also my "moral" satisfaction of having done it for him and I didn't think about how he could really feel. The next day I go to class, but I take a different tour of the corridors so as not to pass in front of the classroom where he attends lessons. At the end of the last hour of class I find him in front of the door as usual, as if nothing had happened between us, he doesn't mention that in the morning I didn't come to greet him as usual, everything happens as if the previous Sunday nothing had happened, but he is not acting, it seems that the anger has passed. Our life proceeds as before, I think in the meantime that I have not lost him, and it reassures me a lot, and that perhaps he has accepted the idea that sex for the moment is to be put aside.

A couple of weeks later, he tells me that the family has a little house in the mountains where nobody ever goes and that we could go there on a Sunday, then he looks me in the face and says: "I will not jump on you! don't worry!" I tell him that we can also talk about it. He wants to get me to say that it's okay for me also for the following Sunday, but I start again with hesitations and stupid speeches and he says to me: “But why do you always have to ruin everything? What are you afraid of? I don't infect you with diseases, I've never been with anyone, really never. " I keep beating around the bush and he gets out of the car and drives off on foot without saying goodbye.

Again I feel bad, but then in the end, for the second time, I console myself and tell myself that I do it anyway for his good and that I have to put aside the melancholies. The next day, I pass in front of his classroom and greet him as if nothing had happened, he looks at me with an attitude of defiance but not of disinterest. At the end of the lessons I take him home as usual and he says to me: “Don't tell me you don't care! I can see very well that you are tempted and very much too! But what are you afraid of? " I start again with the discourse of diseases, "in the sense that I would not like to infect him, I to him, non he me". He looks at me and says: "You told me you've never been with anyone, so that's not true ..." I swore it was true and he said to me, but if we both do the test first, then you don't have excuses anymore, ok? " I replied: “Well…” and he was about to lose his temper again, then he held back and said to me: “Meanwhile let's do the test! Ok? " I replied by nodding my head yes, he said to me: "Okay, I'll take care of it ..." I thought it was a way of saying and I nodded yes again. Then he looked me straight in the eye and said: "But remember that you must keep your word!" and I just said to him: "Ok!". I thought that the speech was very vague and that it would be talked about in an indefinite future, and instead, exactly in moment when I got back home I received a text message telling me that I had to pick him up the next day at home at 6.45, to go together to do the sample, because he had made the appointment for 7.15, in a laboratory near the university. I only replied "Ok".

The next day we met and went to take the sample, then the day followed the usual course. We didn't have the slightest anxiety about the test, neither he nor I. When I took him home he said to me: “Friday afternoon we must go together to pick up the results…” and so we did. The results were evidently both negative, what was practically taken for granted, we had no sexually transmitted diseases, but so also my excuse to say no had vanished in the air. He suggests that I go to the mountains on Sunday and I feel a little forced and a little tempted but in the end I say yes.

On Sunday morning I go to pick him up, after about an hour's drive we arrive at his little house, a  place lost in the middle of the mountains. According to the agreed program, we would return in the evening. I wouldn't have agreed to spend the night there to avoid sleeping with him, I know it seems pathological, but that's how things worked for me then. Once at my destination, I wanted to go around so as not to be alone at home with him, not that I was sorry to be with him, quite the contrary! But I didn't know what I could expect and still felt too conditioned. We went around until lunchtime and I suggested that we go and eat somewhere, again so as not to stay at home with him, but he told me that he had brought his lunch from home and that the bag with provisions was in the trunk. I had no choice I had to agree to go home with him. It was winter and it was freezing cold, we turned on the stove but the cold was anyhow very strong. We heated up the cooked things and ate, then the little sun that was there went out and it was freezing, the cold was really strong. He went into the bedroom where there was a queen-sized bed, pulled out of the closet a large double feather quilt, as high as a mattress and also a large double wool blanket, he spread the wool blanket on the bed and the quilt on top, he took off his shoes and lay down on the bed, dressed as he was, and covered himself with the quilt, then he looked at me and said: “What are you waiting for? Come, you are dying of cold ... I don't touch you, at least we stay warm ... " I said to him: "Promised?" and he told me. “Promised!“ I took off my shoes and lay down under the quilt next to him. I felt actually at ease, but I kept my distance from him. He tells me: “But come closer, so we warm up better! We are fully dressed, but what are you afraid of? " Then I get a little closer, I feel his warmth, he turns to me and looks at me with his beautiful eyes and tells me: "I'm glad you didn't run away!" And I just tell him: "Shut up!"

Then he takes my hand and squeezes it, his is very hot, and he says to me: "Your hands are frozen, you are very cold, let me approach that I will warm you a little ..." So our first physical contact had been created, I felt the his warmth, he leaned against me. Every now and then he asked me: "Does it bother you?" And I said to him: “No…”. At one point he fell asleep. It was late afternoon and it was dark outside, but the light was on and I could see him very closely, he was serene, he totally trusted me. I let him sleep, then around seven I had to wake him up because we had to go back to the city. He stretched like a cat, then said to me: “Here it's fine and it's freezing cold outside… what if we leave in the morning? If we leave at 6.30 we can be at the university on time ... "I said to him:" Ok, but I have to tell home. " He said: "Me too." We called without getting out of bed, then he said to me: "What about dinner?" I replied: "We'll do without it, let's stay here, if it's fine for you" I said : "Ok, Fine". Then he started stroking my face and told me he felt my beard, then he ran his hand through my hair and put his fingers in my collar, I let him do it for a while, then I thought that he could go further and I reminded him that he promised me he wouldn't try to get further and he said: "Ok, but I didn't promise you wouldn't try it, I really like being stroked, stop it when you think you have to stop, ok? " And I said: "Ok!" We were really fine, warm, we had no other thoughts on our mind. I stroked his face and hair for a while, then, at a certain point he said to me: "My trousers are tight and they bother me,does it bothers you if I take them off? " I more or less expected something like this and I said to him: "Come on, I'm going to sleep in the other room, in the closet there is also another sleeping bag ...". Disappointed he replied: "I know there is ... but would you leave me here alone?" then he saw my face a little annoyed and added: “Okay, don't worry, I'll keep my pants on but don't go and get cold! I'm good at least as a stove! " I replied: "How stupid you are!" and he said: "I think you are the stupid ... but anyway ...". Then he approached me and said to me: "At least I can stay a bit like this?" I told him: "Sure!", He replied: "But if I'm bothering you, tell me it, you don't have to put up with me ... "I didn't know what to say and so I didn't say anything but I put my arm over his shoulders and he hugged me even more and just said:" Goodnight!"

This was the first night we spent together. I can say that I was extremely happy, feeling his warmth felt beautiful to me. Maybe the very fact that he didn't insist on getting to have sex with me started to defuse my weapons, if he tried to go further I would have felt almost compelled to say no, almost on principle, but he had not insisted and he hadn't even left slamming the door. I slept very little during that night. He was asleep next to me and he made me a very strong tenderness and it was a sexual tenderness, I could try to deny it, to sublimate, to pretend it wasn't like that, but it was so, and I began to realize it. I was wondering: “But why do I have to resist this guy? But what harm would it be if there was even a little sex between us? Why should I think it's better to say no to him for his own good? His good must be evaluated by him. If he's okay with it and me too, where's the problem? And then, the fact of being together in the same bed was a tender thing, ours was a love for each other, slowly I began to accept the idea, but I told myself that we had to proceed calmly, by successive stages, without rushing too much.

The next day the alarm went off at six o'clock, around it was still late at night, getting out from under the quilt was truly a trauma. He asks me: "How did you feel last night?" I tell him: "Very well", and he says to me: "Are we coming here again next Saturday?" and I nod my head yes, then he gives me wild eyes and begins to move towards me as if he wants to try a sexual approach, I raise my arms to defend myself and he just dishevels my hair and says to me laughing: "Are you scared? Don't be afraid, I'm a guy of my word!" I tell him: "Don't tease!" Then we leave. During the trip he resumes the conversation: "But next time without trousers ..." I stop him: "Don't tease!" and he tells me: "But I just say in order to be more comfortable. You have nothing to be afraid of, you can sleep in the other room and if you want you can also lock yourself inside!" The week went by with the usual rhythms: lessons and study, but I began to see in my brain what could happen the following weekend and I also began to make comparisons between those fantasies and my so-called moral principles. After all, we had done the tests, he seemed to really want to get there, why would I have to keep saying no to him? It no longer seemed obvious to me that sex could leave him something negative. I was fighting with myself or rather with the residues of my education, however, the more days passed the more I felt convinced that the following Saturday I would really take a decisive step. 

Saturday arrived, I remember that in the morning I took a more thorough shower than usual, especially in the sex department, a sign that I considered at least probable the fact that something would happen between us on a physical level. I went to pick him up at his house and we left for the mountain. It was a typical cold winter day, I had chains in my car because, especially at night, the road could be frozen. When he got into the car I felt a breath of perfume more intense than usual and I thought that he too could have taken a much more thorough shower and this thought made me think of an undeclared form of complicity and made me smile. Throughout the journey he did not talk about, let's say, dangerous topics, but certain silences were too long and were not normal, as my usual I still avoided addressing the subject. We stopped for breakfast along the way, all wrapped up, and then resumed our journey. This time he had brought a large bag full of provisions that must have been enough for Saturday lunch and dinner and Sunday lunch. Given the day, not even the refrigerator would be needed, the arrangements were that we would return on Sunday afternoon to avoid the risk of icy roads.

Once we reached our destination we thought we were going for a walk in the village, but it was so cold and the wind was blowing so strong that a similar idea seemed completely absurd. We brought inside the supplies, but it didn't take long, then we started to feel frozen. It was still early, it wasn't even ten in the morning. We turned on the heat. The house was a typical mountain house, one of those with a low ceiling so as not to disperse the heat, but it was still freezing cold. He said to me: "I think I'm going to go to bed, otherwise I'll freeze." He pulled the blanket and quilt out of the closet, as he had done the week before.
 
Once the bed was made, he said to me: "Without trousers?" I looked at him with two fiery eyes and he replied: “Okay, okay! With trousers on! " Here I felt displaced, I would have liked him to insist and finally  I would have given in, but he chose the soft way and avoided insisting and I was really upset and tried to fix it by adding: "Tonight without ..." He looked at me widening his eyes and made a sly face and just said "Wow! ... at least we are more comfortable ... "I looked at him and said:" Don't make fun of me! " He just said: "Well, in the meantime, come to bed now ..." We got into bed with our trousers on but now the qualms of the first time were gone, he came close to me and hugged me and we stayed like that for as long as it took to regain warmth, by now holding our hands and caressing us was something automatic and taken for granted. However, I noticed that the caresses, both hers and mine, even if they were insistent, stopped far away from the, let's say, more dangerous area. None of us wanted to take missteps. This time I felt no scruples of any kind, I behaved in a much more spontaneous way than usual even if not exactly 100% spontaneous, for me it was a very strange feeling, I was with another guy and I could behave spontaneously or almost, and he he corresponded to me, he understood me, he felt the same things as I did, I did not feel him as a different individual to fear and from which to keep at a certain distance anyway, I didn't feel worried about his presence, I was beginning to see sexuality in another way, that is, as a complicity, as a couple game and it was something that I liked a lot.

We were cuddling in the heat for a couple of hours and I felt really happy. Then it was time to get up to prepare lunch. It was literally a freezing moment. First I sat just a moment in bed, let's say, to cool the my boiling hormones, because I was erect and I didn't want to be seen like this, the cold air actually produced its effects in a very short time and then I got out of the bed and I put my windbreaker on, because it was terribly cold even inside the house, instead he waited a bit to get up and I didn't ask him why, even if I could have imagined it. I went to the kitchen and put my lunch in the microwave. In the meantime he got up and joined me in the kitchen and started making a whole pot of hot tea. After a few minutes the lunch was warmed up and we ate everything in 10 minutes. We had paper plates, so there weren't  dishes to wash. And then to wash the dishes it would have been necessary to wait for the effects of the heating because the water did not flow in the pipes because it was frozen. 

Outside it began to snow heavily. He told me: “Wi must hope it will stop soon, otherwise the road will freeze and we will not be able to return. However, here there is everything you need for survival for several days ... If tonight it snows a lot and tomorrow it is sunny you have to shovel the snow at least up to the car and from the car to the road. The car has antifreeze, so it should start again anyway, but we will need to put the chains on at least for the first 20 or 30 kilometers. " I ask him: "Is there TV here?", He says no,I ask him if there is internet and he tells me that there is, I tell him: "What do we do?" and he replies: "No choice, we go back to bed, ... without the trous ...". I don't let him finish the sentence and I look at him with eyes of fire, but more for fun than anything else and he replies: "But keeping your trousers on in bed is really uncomfortable ... it's just for that ... well ... and then look, I don't jump on you, you can stay almost sure… ". I tell him: "What does it mean to say almost?" And he replies: "That I leave it to you to take the first step ... anyway you promised that tonight we will go to sleep without trousers, do you remember?" I replied with a moan: "Mh ..." He insisted: "How did you say? I didn't understand ... "And I yelled at him:" Yes, but tonight ... "He didn't let go and continued: "But now it's already evening ... and then do we want to get up again to eat? Naaa! Once a day is enough!" I was very tempted and I said to him: "Ok, make the first move ... " He replied: "Wow! I proceed ... " He took off his pants staying under the quilt and threw them on the chair, then said: "Ah ... at least I'm comfortable!" Before doing my part I waited a while and I expected him to urge me to do it, but he didn't and he just said: "Believe me, so I'm much better ... if you take your trousers off, I don't jump on you, you'd be more comfortable, then if you are afraid, do as you want ... " 

At this point I made a strange speech to him and I said: "Every now and then, but a little too frequently today, you tell me that you will not jump on me, damn it, what have I to deduce from it? I think I look really stupid or clumsy to you... "He replied : "Neither clumsy nor stupid, just a little braked ..." Then I too took off my trousers and threw them on the chair. Actually I felt much better this way. He asked me if I felt on duty, somehow compelled to do things I didn't want to do, and I firmly said no. He was two years younger than me and much less clumsy than me. Then he asked me: "Can I lean on you?" And I told him yes. We hugged and the physical contact was very strong, we held each other for a few minutes, then he shook my hand and intertwined his fingers with mine and he said: "It was really beautiful!" and I replied: “Yes, a very strong thing that I had never tried”.

We didn't sleep at night and it was the first time for us, we were very shy and cautious but all the thing was very engaging and very true. Once we were done with sex I was really happy but I realized that he was very melancholy. I didn't know what to do. I asked him how he felt and he told me he didn't know, that he had been fine but he had so many thoughts on his mind, a great confusion where there is everything from happiness to sadness. He had tears in his eyes. I asked him: “But is there something wrong? Did I do something wrong?" He looked at me and told me: “Don't talk, just hug me…” I hugged him and held him tight, but he was closed in his melancholy. Then he said to me: "Did you feel compelled in any way?" I replied: "Not at all ..." and I held him tighter, then he fell asleep in my arms. 
 
Our story began so many years ago. In the following years, things got complicated for external reasons, there have never been real misunderstandings between us. He made me feel loved, important, he considered me a decisive element in his life, just as I considered him. I am in love with him today more than then because he is an exceptional man who spends himself on others, who has never gone after money, who is profoundly altruistic and is exactly the opposite of a careerist. He has achieved great successes in his work because he works hard but unfortunately he is also very stressed, I have often been his release valve, which honors me and fills me with happiness, but for some years he has been working abroad. I spend my holidays with him, but then in the rest of the year we can only meet in chat and for a limited time, because he has a thousand commitments. 

He is a profoundly good man, with me he had a unique delicacy and respect, he loved me and showed it to me in a thousand ways. When I have some doubts about a choice, I ask myself how he would behave in the same situation and I try to do what he would do. Now he is still handsome, but we are no longer boys and clearly on a physical level both he and I, we are no longer those of twenty years ago, but I respect him as a man, I discovered many aspects of his personality that fascinated me. He is never aggressive, he is calm, he is very sweet and patient, he encourages me, supports me and allows me to do the same with him, sometimes he scolds me a little and tells me that I should be more open to understanding problems of the others, but it does not refer to his problems but to the problems of those who do not think like us. 

There is only one point that really worries me and it is the fact that he is very stressed from work, sometimes, when we chat in the evening, and I would talk to him for hours, we are still forced to limit the time and many times I just tell him that I love him and he replies “Me too! If you weren't there, I wouldn't be nothing!" This sentence, even if it is not true, makes me feel proud. I hope that our life goes on like this for many years to come!!

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  A SECOND CHOICE GAY COUPLE
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-04-2021, 12:00 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hi Project,
I skip the pleasantries. What would you do if you were 30 years old and had a soft spot for a friend of yours with whom you also had a little sex, but he was a friend who perhaps wants to distance himself from you and that you might not want to lose? What would you do if that friend of yours had his birthday in a week? Would you send him a happy birthday text message? I don’t say more, but a good wishes text message?
 
Because now I find myself in this situation, I’m not in love with my friend, that is, I’m not in love in the sense that if he is not there I die, indeed perhaps I live even better, but I think that despite his roughness he is still a friend, I just don't know what he thinks of me now, I don't know if we really understand each other, maybe now we understand each other less than before, however between us there has always been a certain mutual tolerance with some particularly important moments, he, in his own way, he cares a little about me, or maybe he cared, and I care a little bit about him, we went on also and perhaps above all because between us there was a bit of sex, to say that I don't care the sex part, it would be hypocritical, but I also wanted something else, I say I wanted because now sometimes I think I don't want anything at all.
 
I have an ambiguous feeling towards him: he attracts me but he also rejects me. I can't stand many of his ways of doing that seem disproportionate to me, but others touch me deeply.
 
I think sex has ruined everything between us. Yes, Project, first one goes out of his way to get there, and we both did, then you realize that you end up screwing it up, that everything ends up revolving around sex and everything else seems to have been just an excuse, a tool to get to sex, then you want to go back, but there is no going back. I wonder what I was looking for and what he was looking for when we met.
 
We both bragged about not being like the others, not rushing after sex just for sex, but in the end that's what we did and so we screwed everything up, maybe not, but it's no more like before. It is true that even now if there is a moment of strong communication it is right when we have sex, but then it passes and you realize that it ends right there.
 
There is the fact that neither he nor I really looked for other partners, maybe he did sometimes, but usually it didn't last long, when he wanted sex he came to me, when he wanted love he thought of others without going to bed with them because if he had done he would only go to bed with them and anyhow he wouldn't get what he was looking for.
 
He wasn't in love with me, I was the second choice, the one without love, the one only about sex, at least that's what he said and I think it was true. I knew what he thought of me, but I also knew that he needed me at least for sex and probably because I was the only one who cared about him, even though he would have wanted someone else in my place.
 
Another guy, in my place, would have sent him to the hell, but I never did because in the end I was aware that he would anyhow come back to me anyway, even if every time he came to me I was very cautious for fear of diseases because I didn’t trust what he used to say to reassure me and all this bothered him tremendously and so even sex sometimes started badly and ended worse and I ended up wondering: What am I doing here?
 
When we met we were not yet twenty and now we are still here, always fighting with the same things. He is perpetually frustrated and disappointed, not at work, fortunately, but in the emotional life, I’m increasingly disillusioned, but in the end we are still here. As for me, I believe that I will never have a boyfriend as I would like him and the speech is valid for him as well. Our being in some way together is clearly a compromise solution or better a fallback on both sides, but in the end that's what exists.
 
We always said things to each other's face, even the things I wrote to you here, and also said in a much more direct and aggressive way, at least in words. I don't like the idea of losing him at all. I know it would probably be the best solution for both me and him, but I would anyhow miss him badly. I would really be sorry that everything was lost, I'm afraid it could be so and I don't know what to do.
 
His birthday is a simple (trivial) way to tell him that I still think of him, what he will do I don’t know, if he doesn’t answer me he will have made the last move, the decisive one, and I will accept it, because I can only accept it, if he answers me I will have to face a thousand problems and I will, but I don't feel like I'm the one to decide for the no, because that's not what I want.

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  GAYS AND STRAIGHT FRIENDS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-02-2021, 12:38 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies

Hi Project,

a few days ago I was struck by a sentence on an email from a guy who said that his boyfriend must first of all be a true friend. I have had guys and also friends, but I don't know how many of them were also true friends, probably very few. I said a banality, I know, I think that true friendship is a rare thing anyway and this is the core of my speech.
 
I know well that I don't have to expect too much from anyone because I also think I have been a disappointment for almost all of my guys, if not all of them, at least sometimes, and also for my friends. After all, all this discourse only serves to demystify falls in love and friendships, especially those not tested, and to understand that happiness or its less mythical substitute can be found above all in everyday life and in the banal, as long as it is not too much banal.
 
We must console ourselves with what is there, which is not necessarily very little. But this also means starting to give a value to many things that were not seen before because the myth of overwhelming and total things polarized our attention so much that we didn't see anything else.

I will certainly not tell you an overwhelming love story, which is not something that suits me, and then there are too many of them around, but I’ll only tell you a small story of respect and affection between two people who didn't merge their lives, who indeed continued to go their separate ways, but found in those ways an added value because they met.

Project, I'll tell you about my friendship with a guy, but it could also be a girl, here, finally, sex has nothing to do with it! For heaven's sake, I have nothing against sex, but it often promises things that it doesn't deliver at all, which doesn't mean it's always a disappointment, just that it probably promises too much. On the other hand, some friendships promise nothing, they are small things but they help you to move forward and understand many aspects of life.
 
In April 2011 I’m 26 years old, I lived all the classic experiences typical of gay guys: isolation within the family, parents who don’t know and wouldn’t understand, friends who don’t know and who wouldn’t understand, etc. etc., so much fantasy, so much pornography, so many stories read on your forum, so many half stories mentioned more than started and so many half disappointments.
 
Among my friends there is one with whom I feel at ease, his name is Guido, we have known each other since school. He speaks little and also rather slowly, he doesn’t speak like a machine gun, he is always calm but I think he’s very restrained and a bit neurotic, he isn’t a leader, he doesn’t participate much in discussions, he listens and remembers but he doesn't tell you what he thinks. At the university we did very different faculties, I towards the juridical, he towards more scientific things.
 
He is the only ex-school friend of mine with whom I maintained contact throughout the period of the university, not a special contact, but we met more or less every month and we went to get a pizza together talking about this and that. The conversations weren't so particularly involving, we didn't end up talking about personal things, we talked a little bit of politics, and there we understood each other enough, and we talked even a little bit of his and my study stuff. We didn't use to go on talking for long at the end of the pizza , we just said goodbye and went home, everything was apparently very banal.
 
I specify that Guido in my opinion is not a handsome guy, I have never been interested in him from that point of view. I didn't know anything about his private life, that is, I didn't know if he was gay or straight and I've never wondered, especially since we never talked about those topics. When we talked, I was happy, because I knew I was going to have a quiet evening. When he saw me less calm he encouraged me but in a generic way, he didn't ask me questions, he was very respectful of my privacy and on the other hand he never talked to me about his.
 
When he called me on the phone he was very concise and in any case he rarely called me, usually he called me, I never called him because I knew that sooner or later I would hear from him. In those years I lived my first stories with guys alternating highs and lows on the roller coaster of love. Sometimes I wanted to talk about these things with Guido, then I told myself that he wouldn’t understand and I let it go, my relation with Guido were something apart, not intertwined with my love life.
 
One evening we go out for the usual pizza and I notice that he wears a wedding ring on his finger, not a simple band ring, but a classic wedding ring of a traditional type, I ask him why and he tells me that he got married 15 days before but he didn't tell me anything about not to make me feel obliged in any way, I’m perplexed that he only told me it after the fact, but he immediately changes the subject and proposes something that I would never have imagined, that is, he proposes me to go to dinner one evening at his house, I understand that he cares a lot and I accept, but then he changes the subject again and we end up talking about the usual things.

The next week I go to his house for dinner, he introduces me to his wife, Lucia, a very pretty young girl, who treats me very familiarly and puts me at ease in a way I never imagined. Guido and Lucia are a quiet couple, I would say that the air you breathe in their home is one of serenity. Dinner is excellent and very familiar and the conversation is light and pleasant, basically a nice evening.

At the end Guido accompanies me to the car and I tell him: "I was really good and I'm happy for you and for Lucia!" And I tell him with full conviction, he reads it in my eyes and smiles at me, there I realized that he really cared about my opinion. Then we said goodbye in the usual way. In the following months we continued to see each other with the usual rhythms, in practice nothing has changed between us with his marriage.
 
In the meantime, I had begun the longest and most tormented of my stories with a guy (Lucio). I didn't say anything to Guido about Lucio, partly because I wanted those things to remain mine and I also wanted to behave with him as he had behaved with me, and partly because I didn't know how he would react.
 
In March 2018 the story with Lucio went into crisis and I fell into a very black period. Guido noticed it, he understood that something had happened that had put me in crisis, I realized it because he was more considerate of me, he called me more often on the phone even though he had become father twice and had to think about family.
 
One night we go out at a time when I was really in trouble and he simply says to me: "What happened?" I tell him: "I broke up with my boyfriend ..." He’s not in tha least upset but remains silent waiting for me to tell him the rest and then I go ahead, he doesn’t interrupt me. In the end he just says to me: "Don't blame Lucio, he may not have understood anything and he could feel bad too ..." This last thing made a light bulb turn on in my brain and I asked him: "What would you do?" He replied: "I would call him immediately." I told him: "Now?" And he replied: "Yes".
 
I took my cell phone, left the pizzeria and immediately called Lucio. Lucio was in a crisis worse than me and it was evident that we were both happy to hear from each other again. After 40 minutes I saw Guido leave the pizzeria with two takeaway pizzas, he gave one to me and said in a whisper: "I'm going on foot, take care of Lucio! ..." I continued talking to Lucio and in the following days we started again to see each other and in the end it was a positive thing, because not Lucio nor I were at ease with each other  and above all for reasons of stubbornness. The problems with Lucio were resolved, at least on that time, and we both regained some serenity.
 
About a month later I saw Guido again and I told him that the problem with Lucio was over, he just said to me: "I'm glad." And he smiled, then we talked about something else. The problem that I and Lucio were two guys was never taken into consideration, for Guido it was completely irrelevant. Guido is not the one who listens to my love problems, but one whom I trust and who often understands me on the fly without me even needing to speak, he plays down things even by not talking too much about. He doesn’t like the blah blah, he is operative, if you have to do something, for him, you just have to do it, without starting to think about it in vain.
 
I recently went to his house for dinner and I saw that he has a way of treating Lucia that enchants me, he is not expansive but reassuring, he is the man of doing more than talking, when I arrived he was in the kitchen with Lucia and they were cooking together. If I have to think of a model of a happy couple I think of Guido and Lucia, they are straight, ok, they have children, but above all they don’t create stupid problems, they talk little and commit themselves together. I'm sorry to say, but among gays such a thing is quite rare, although I think it is rare even among straight people.
 
I would like my relationship with Lucio to be similar to that of Guido and Lucia, but we are not at that level, we are still two cockerels pecking each other or two boys who have not grown up who have kept the habit of fighting each other. Slowly we are learning but I think the road will still be long. Lucio is a bit jealous of Guido and I tell him: "But Guido has a wife and two children!" and he replies: "Mh ... It may be, but I don't think you're telling me the truth!" and then he laughs and chases me around the house.

The technique of not speaking which is typical of Guido also works between me and Lucio, Lucio likes to talk, but now he talks less and between us there are more affectionate gestures, when he comes to me we go shopping together at the supermarket (a small supermarket) and the ladies we meet look at us with curiosity, because they are not used to seeing two men together in the supermarket doing their shopping, at one point I feel a little too observed by an elderly lady and I feel a little embarrassed, and so, to get out of the embarrassment and even a bit 'to laugh, I try to make me or him look like a young dad and I tell him aloud: "Remember to take the diapers!" And he replies: "But you don't need it!" And the lady looks at us very puzzled!

I conclude here, of course, Project, do what you think of the email, the names are all fictional.

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  GAY DISAFFECTION
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-29-2021, 05:45 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hello Project, I'm a 27-year-old Milanese apparently without problems: I graduated, I have a job I don't love and don't hate but that allows me to be independent, I come from a medium-level family, I’m an only child and my parents are dignified people, who know about me even from that point of view and have not caused me problems. So far there is nothing more normal (banal) than all this.
 
I had my experiences with the guys, but they ended quickly and with no regrets, except the last one which still lasts but only in a sense. My friends (friends?) don’t know about me, least of all at work, I have the problem if ever of keeping girls away, but not that of approaching guys because, very frankly, I feel emotionally very refractory.
 
I don't dream of having a boyfriend, even when I was with a guy the involvement was very relative, we could do everything, obviously including sex, but there was anyhow neither the slightest emotional involvement. I mean that I have never fallen in love with a guy, I’m neither straight nor bisexual, I’m gay, I never had any doubts about this, long ago I thought that sooner or later I would find the right guy and I would fall in love with him but it never happened.
 
I'm certainly not addicted to sex (if anything to work) and I really don't want to go looking for a guy. The last boyfriend I had, and in a way I still have, (I'll call him Carlo) was my vaccination against the falling in love virus. I don't hate Carlo or his way of seeing life, I just don't understand him. Being close to him I was able to realize many things and first of all that I’m probably not made for couple life and certainly I’m not made for couple life with him.
 
He perceived already after the first few weeks that beyond appearances I was not really there, he wanted to convince himself and also to convince me otherwise, but I was not in love with him and I was not even interested in building something with him, whatever it was. He treated me with some disdain because he knew that staying close to me was like wasting his time. We continued to see each other for months and do what lovers should theoretically do, but we weren't in love, we studied each other to know how far the story would go. We said goodbye practically every evening at 9 pm, it was the only clear thing between us, in a sense there was a mutual complicity about this, but nothing more.
 
He's a handsome guy and that was the temptation for me, but then, beyond that, there was really nothing else, he had great ideas on his mind, perhaps because his family gave him all the money he wanted. He used to make me proposals that could be suitable for a gossip magazine, let's forget about politics ... let's just spread a pitiful veil, I told him many times that he has to look for a guy of his world, but he thinks he can have a power of attraction on me precisely because he has money, but I told him that the only thing that attracts me about him is that he is a handsome guy, and that the rest doesn't interest me at all. I don't want to be bought by anyone, if he wants a walking dog he can buy it as he likes better, I want a man, not a moron.
 
Sometimes he provokes me because he wants to feel flattered, but he has the wrong address, sometimes I listen to him just to see if he stops or continues to shoot bullshit with no limit. Perhaps he would like me to stop him to start the usual tirade of values! Yes, you got it right, values!! But I don't even answer him, and when he falls silent I change the subject, as if I hadn't even heard him.
 
Sometimes he would call me on the phone while I was at work, I tried to tell him not to call during those hours, but he kept on, and then I put his number among the unwanted ones, because when I work I cannot be distracted.
 
Why don't I care about the guys? I have the answer, I'm trying to build something that I care very much about.
 
Now I work at a good level, but as an employee, well, I want to try in an acceptable time to open my own small business. I'm accumulating skills, just on how to start with a small business, I'm trying to understand how to move between banks, authorizations, tax authorities, contracts and various things. In a few days I will start a master on this and I need it not to enrich my curriculum, but to have a practical competence. I work in very innovative sectors on a technical level but I completely lack managerial-legal preparation, but I'm also trying to grow in that sector.
 
When I start, I will start small, with a one-person company, then it will be what it will be. My first rule: never take a step longer that the leg! People who know what I have in mind, I mean really knowledgeable people in the industry, think my project is good but  will be something that will totally absorb me and they also told me that such a project can somehow become the substitute for the emotional life, but I don't agree at all with such a statement.
 
I don't know if I will ever have a love life, I don't exclude anything, if it happens I will be the first to be happy with it, but I will certainly not start looking for a guy because I have no time to waste. I have no projects in this sector, I mean in the affective one, and didn't even go crazy with the idea of the company, if it works I'll be happy, if then I see that the game is not worth the candle, well, then I'll go back to my current job. I have no problems with my current job now and I don't think I will have difficulties afterwards.
 
I have not sublimated eros into work, I think that every now and then (if it happens) there may well be some adventure, but woe to believe it too much! I don't believe in absolute and definitive commitments, choices for life and the like. I don't like straight weddings, let alone gay ones!
 
If you want to be with me ok, it's fine if it's okay with me too, then when you get bored or I get bored, well then bye and I move on. It could even last a lifetime, but if that's the case, it only becomes apparent over the years. You can start, then you see what happens. I never understood loves at first sight. In the meantime I have to cut off relations with my latest boyfriend (Carlo) and I don't think it will be difficult, I think he's tired of me for a while and honestly I only like him physically, which obviously isn't enough. So "Hi Carlo!", I move on! I don't mean that I move on to another guy, but that I turn the page and put apart the guys chapter, put it on standby for a while, then what will be will be.
 
See, Project, I'm not asexual, no! I use a little pornography, even there with an unforced but absolutely spontaneous moderation, I go ahead with the fantasy and for the moment it is enough for me, also because when I was having sex with guys I was really obsessed with the idea of prevention, certainly having sex with a guy is different from seeing a video, but with a video the risk is absolutely zero, with a real guy you can never trust 100%, if you try to be scrupulous in prevention they take you for a moron and that's why you let your guard down, but then you have a thousand scruples ... is it worth to be with a guy who tomorrow will go away with another guy? I really think not.
 
But is there a serious reason to look for a boyfriend? If such a guy arrives and the first signs indicate that he could be the right one, then it suits me perfectly, but it is not mandatory to live in a couple, and then living in a couple is a bond that can only be accepted when there is a serious motivation. I think that loving a guy, or rather, the fact that two guys love each other is certainly possible, but it has to happen and it is still very unlikely. Even when it happens it never happens 100%, there is always a need for mutual adaptation, but, let's say, if the adaptation is 10-20% then it is also acceptable but only if it is reciprocal, but adapt to whatever, well, I just can't stand this.
 
Perhaps I'm rigid of mentality, but there is an expression that I do not like at all and it is when one says that he is "lost in love" that is he has practically lost his mind, I think that either this is just a very rhetorical saying but also very stupid and deceitful, or one is really out of mind. There is too much sugary romance about these things, which everyone in chatter shares but no one shares in practical life.
 
What's the difference between a serious friendship and falling in love? Everyone says: sex! But my boyfriend, then, if and when he will be there, must first of all be my friend, which means that we should have substantially similar visions of life and ways of acting. Well this has never happened to me until now! Of course then there is sex, but then! Because if everything is based on sex, it takes very little to bring down the house of cards!
 
Project, you don't know how many beautiful and moronic guys I met, people who should talk little because they would gain and instead have the urge to talk and so they waste that little bit of sex appeal that they got from mother nature. Someone let's say at first sight passable I knew him, but then the first impression was easily overturned by the second and definitive one.
 
I would like to add one thing, just to clarify, I do not consider myself either Apollo or Einstein, I'm a very ordinary guy, nothing to do with so many beautiful people I see on the street, because we must give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. And I don't even think that those who seem stupid to me are really stupid, maybe they will be successful in life a hundred times more than me just doing modeling! (The fox and the grapes!) I'm just saying they look stupid to me. Of course, at the end of the game, the fool who loses the game could be me, but I prefer to lose the game by playing my way rather than imitating the moves of others.
 
Excuse me for this rant, Project, but today I met people who gave me "advice", something I can't stand at all, and I had to let off steam a bit.

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  GAY SEX AND TIREDNESS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-27-2021, 01:12 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

I’m writing to you because I feel strange and cannot speak to anyone. I’m a forty-year-old who has been living for 15 years with a partner who is a little younger than him (not even two years). Our coexistence was very beautiful, essentially the best thing in my life, and it went on for 15 years, but for almost a year now it has begun to create some difficulties for me. When we met we were both young and beautiful, maybe I was a little less beautiful than him, but he liked me right away and our story began because he was the one who wanted it to start. 

Fifteen years have passed, he is now a little less young and perhaps a little less attractive than 15 years ago but he has a look and a way of doing that are the image of health, in practice you could easily consider him ten years younger, I, on the other hand, had my serious health problems which I have overcome, but created and create still now a lot of problems. In practice, from the outside I still look like a nice and young guy but my health problems are always there. You might think I'm writing to you about his cheating with guys younger and much bolder than me, but we've been a strictly monogamous couple for at least ten years, and I see it from the fact that he has a lot of sexual activity with me, and the problem, incredibly, is just that. 

Keep in mind that I'm still in love with him and that I love him, I like him or rather I liked him a lot, not that I don't like him anymore today, but he doesn't realize that I can't stay at his level, he tells me that I shy away from him, that I look for excuses with him, that I keep him at a distance, in reality it is that sometimes, for me, having sex with him is really stressful, not on a psychological level, but precisely in the sense of tiring on a physical level and he does not understand this. He, at 38, does 40 push-ups in a row, I can't even lie down on the ground, but if I try to tell him such things I can't do it, he doesn't believe it and feels obliged to stimulate and provoke me, as if I were missing some sexual motivation. 

When I tell him I can't do it he is very upset, he doesn't treat me badly, he has never done it, but he thinks that I don't do my best to follow him and to help him realize is wishes. He tells me that I’m 40 years old and that I cannot fail to rise to the occasion and he takes himself as an example of a healthy and sporty life, as if my physical decline was due to my lack of commitment to sports activities. I tell you that sometimes I begin to fear him, or better not to fear him, no, let's say I begin to fear his reactions a little and feel conditioned. 

It would be so easy to understand how things are and maybe settle for what I can do without having to face too many problems, but this doesn't happen, he still sees me as a handsome, young and above all performing guy just like him, but I'm not like that at all. We have been living together for 15 years, I don’t think he has in mind to send everything to hell, if we have gone on for 15 years there will also be a reason beyond sex. The fact is that I don't want to see him react like a beaten dog. Sometimes I think he would need someone like him or a younger one, capable of staying at his level. Since he can afford to do whatever he can think of, given that his physique supports him in any case, he thinks it is the same for everyone. 

I hope he comes to understand that his model doesn’t fit everyone, because otherwise I would find myself living with a man who is not only dissatisfied, but convinced that he has been rejected by the man he loves. Sometimes he is jealous, which seems incredible to me, he asks me questions about our friends, he asks me if I have a secret cell phone, because he thinks that my tiredness comes perhaps from the fact that I go to have sex with someone while he is away, something that has never passed through the antechamber of my brain. 

I feel very discouraged by his attitudes and I don't know what to do because when I try to explain to him how things are he silences me and gets angry as if I were trying to make him digest the idea that he no longer interests me, which is absolutely not true. Sometimes I tried to talk to him seriously and, on the spot, he listens to me and he seems to have understood, then the next time we are all over again at 12 and he starts again with the idea that I don't try hard enough and that I say too many words and do very few facts. The fact that we are practically the same age for him means that we our bodies are essentially the same and that I can, or better could, automatically do what he can do. In short, he thinks that the will is enough to do everything, because in his case it is really enough, but in mine it is not enough at all. 

Among other things, he knows about my health problems and tends to minimize them or rather to insist that I, with my attitude, end up exaggerating the negative aspects and precluding me many things that are taken for granted for him. I don't know if this problem is an objectively stupid problem, but it is certain that it ends up affecting above all our sexuality, I feel judged, he considers me a renouncer who thinks he is old when he is not at all, but it is not a question of age but of health and he doesn’t understand this. I'm fine with him and I don't think I'd be better with anyone else and he knows it, sometimes, when we have a little quieter sex, I feel very at ease and it's a really beautiful thing, but when he starts in the fourth he expects me to to follow him step by step and I get tired and he doesn't understand it and scolds me, then he makes a rant, then he regrets it and tries to downsize. 

What can I do? Sometimes I'm really discouraged. I would just like to see him happy. Sometimes he comes home in a great mood, we start having sex and everything seems to be fine, if I try to tell him that I can hardly keep up with him, the spell collapses and the evening ends in sulking. These are not tragedies, I know, but they are certainly misunderstandings, in the end they don’t create a great discomfort but I begin to be afraid of having sex with him because the possibility that it starts well and ends badly is very real. Sometimes the outcome of all this is that I feel guilty and I think that the fact that I'm at least in some sense afraid of him prevents me from really making him understand how things are. 

Let me be clear, we love each other, of this I have no doubts, but sometimes I start to think that he may feel really uncomfortable. Sometimes I think with terror about what would happen if I were no longer in such physical condition as to be able to have sex with him, even if in a minor tone, and I think it would be hard for him to understand why. There is communication between us, we talk often and even seriously but on this specific point dialogue is difficult. For several years he has considered me a partner up to the occasion and cannot accept the idea that this is no longer the case. Perhaps this is a consequence of a really strong sexual relationship that lasted for several years. 

I think I will age much faster than him and that these problems may become less and less easy to manage. In the last days (three or four) he hasn't taken the sexual initiative anymore, maybe not to get me in problems, I don't think he did it to punish me because he never did things like that, but I too avoided to take the sexual initiative and we went to sleep without any sexual involvement and this, for us, it is not a normal thing. I would take the initiative, but I would like sex to be a calmer thing and more suitable for me, but I know that such a thing would disappoint him, however I cannot let other days pass and tomorrow I will take courage. Not that I'm sorry to move towards his direction, on the contrary, far from it ... however it is a pity that for him cuddles are trivial or a little more! 

There’s one thing I can do when I’m in bed with him, I can speak less, because in certain moments words can be dangerous, this I think would be useful and it would also be easy to achieve. Sometimes, after a night of sex, I feel exhausted and the next day, when the alarm goes off, I struggle to get up. I'm sorry I'm not at his height but there is nothing I can do to change the situation, I would certainly like to be as he would like, that is, as I was until a few years ago, because this would put him in a good mood, anyhow such things will not put us in crisis. At some point I begin to think that I might as well force myself a little more to please him, but I'm afraid I don't have the physical stamina to do it and perhaps this way I could slip another step down. 

I have been thinking for some years now that our youth is over, or at least mine, and that we are now middle-aged men, but he still sees himself as a boy, he has a boyish way of doing, that in a sense fascinates me, but in another also scares me. He tells me that I get obsessed with old age, he instead completely ignores the idea, and blessed is he who can do it! He also tells me that I act as a victim, maybe it is even a bit true, but I think only marginally. Maybe I'm really starting to feel old inside, apparently I'm not yet and he only looks at the appearance, it's a shame he doesn't notice the rest. 

I’m attaching my contact details [... omitted ...] in case you would like to have a chat. Obviously with the email you can do whatever you want, that is, you can also put it in the forum, if you don't see it too strange.

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  GAY RELATIONSHIPS AND COHABITATION
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-20-2021, 12:52 AM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

In this last period I have often met gay guys in chat who have a partner but who have found themselves having to deal with at least partial disappointments, so I will try to outline and summarize the nodes of the problem.
 
First of all, the expression "having a partner" is extremely generic, ranging from stable cohabitation for several years now to the relationship that is still in its infancy and is still to be verified, up to the long-distance relationship in which there is no real contact except absolutely episodic and brief. Obviously in such a variety of situations the concept of “mythization” takes on very varied and scarcely homogeneous connotations.
 
The myth, in itself, embodies an archetype of behavior that is either received from the outside or created autonomously. The mythization of real people is the typical example of the self-constructed myth, identifying the person with the role he fills or one would like him to fill and projecting our personal archetypes of that role onto that person. Attributing even only hypothetically a role to a person is equivalent to recognize that person qualities and attributes that are often taken for granted, because the projective mechanisms lead us to see above all, if not exclusively, what we want to see.
 
A few decades ago, when there were no means of distance communication, people's knowledge was numerically much more limited but also much more direct than what is achieved today through social media. Today social networks don’t allow us to see and evaluate the behavior of others but only to know the image they intend to give us of themselves, that is, to know their self-representation. Obviously, the representations of oneself vary according to the aims one intends to pursue. In the search for the so-called soul mate, often, the self-image that we tend to provide our partner is built on the moment, exploiting the information we already know about him.
 
The fundamental information is photography, with which we instinctively assess whether the other is or is not an object of interest to us. If it is not, that is, if the photo doesn’t correspond to our archetypes, the tone of the conversation is low, the appreciations are limited, we don’t try to deepen the relationship but to make it slide towards banality and towards a short-term dissolution. If, on the other hand, the photo interests us, the tone of the language changes and we try to express a concrete interest, the discourse heats up, we immediately enter very personal arguments, we are careful to give a positive image of ourselves according to the interlocutor's yardstick. The first thing you appreciate is beauty, which is the objectively most impactful element at the first eye contact. Listening becomes extremely attentive, space is given to the interlocutor, trying to collect through his words useful elements to build a representation of ourselves as seductive as possible, even at the expense of truthfulness and completeness. All the similarities and analogies with the interlocutor are underlined and all possible points of divergence or distance are largely overlooked. An image of oneself is built and transmitted by specularity-complementarity (the two hands are not only similar but specular and complementary and are perfectly suited to work together).
 
Then comes the time of the retrospective image of oneself, of one's own history, and in particular of one's own affective history, and here too often the mechanisms of selection-omission of contents operate at an unconscious level, through which, in the archive of individual memory, some episodes are chosen as emblematic of one's own being and acting and others are omitted that would be in dissonance with the former. The language slips very easily towards expressions that indicate strong involvement and appreciation (the drift of love language). The whole process just outlined can be summed up in the word seduction. To seduce means to "take aside", "attract to oneself" a person.
 
If the relationship is born symmetrical, that is, the first impact evaluations are very similar on the two sides, one gets the impression of being in front of a beautiful love story or at least its onset and the projective mechanisms come into operation by building a progressive mythization of the partner on the basis of what we know of him, in the presumption that the image that the other has given us is authentic. But the mechanisms of selection of contents, which often operate unconsciously, invariably provide at least partial, if not distorted, representations of reality. In other words, verbal contact or even that in audio-video doesn’t show the reactions of the other in real situations but only what the other, in a more or less conscious way, wants us to see, or simply makes us see.
 
Obviously, the encounter in person, if episodic and brief, still maintains this same pattern and if anything tends to confirm the mythical vision of the other. Only a real coexistence in ordinary and long-lasting situations makes it possible to understand and evaluate the personality of the other with a breadth and depth of a certain thickness.
 
It should be emphasized that if the one who speaks about himself to a person in whom he is interested in any case provides a sweetened representation of himself, that is, he makes a selection of the contents to be presented, even the listener, in a more or less conscious way, makes a selection among the contents that are presented to him, attributing value to those that go in the direction he wants and neglecting or minimizing those that go in the opposite direction, in this way the image of the interlocutor undergoes a second deformation induced by the listener on the basis of his own archetypes and his own projections.
 
At the end of a period, however short, of meetings in chat alternated with short meetings in person, one gets the impression of having built a stable relationship and of knowing each other in depth, but in reality the mutual knowledge is minimal and the image of the other is heavily deformed. Myth makes up for reality, integrates it and strengthens it, as long as contact with reality doesn’t intervene to correct the situation.
 
The old saying: "marriage is the tomb of love" means that cohabitation actually makes many couple relationships collapse because they were built only on projections and myths far removed from reality.
 
The demythization that follows real coexistence can be of a very different type and degree. The higher the level of mythization in the pre-coexistence phase, the greater the level of disillusionment that follows from coexistence. The person who gives the best possible image of himself (self-mythization) is also the one who has the greatest a priori probability of generating profound disillusionment. The person who, on the other hand, doesn’t avoid speaking clearly about his own problematic aspects, is less likely to be successful in the seduction phase, but, in the long run, is much less exposed to the risk of creating disillusionment in the partner.
 
In the gay world, today, stable cohabitations are more the exception than the rule, civil unions are rare, partly because they involve a coming out that in some cases would create problems that are difficult if not impossible to solve, but above all because a coexistence of long term requires basic choices oriented towards stability and the ability to act over a long period in a manner consistent with those choices. Short stories and in any case without formal constraints can be born very easily and just as easily they can end, they are already born under the banner of the relative, the revisable, the non-definitive and essentially the disengaged, and are often based on fragile mythologies destined to shatter when one face a real coexistence. However, it must be said that the tendency towards disengaged or, as it is commonly said, free relationships, has its underlying reason in the difficulty of creating a deep interpersonal relationship, which would require the presence of forms of compatibility between the partners that are decidedly uncommon. In general, the first experiences of gay guys have as their goal the creation of a stable couple, but since in many cases this goal remains in fact unattainable or in any case unfulfilled, one ends up choosing the other choice, the more disengaged one, which is certainly more fragile but represents an objectively achievable goal even in conditions that are not ideal in themselves.
 
It should be emphasized that a disillusionment, however heavy it may be, doesn’t necessarily lead to the rupture of the relationship, because, if only for reasons of inertia, the possibly cracked relationship can be mended or better strengthened, even more than once, but obviously that relationship, marked by disillusionment, which is often reciprocal, risks being gradually emptied from within, if other mechanisms don’t intervene to consolidate it.
 
The idea that disillusionment is not in itself destructive of the couple's relationship is often accepted only as a fallback solution, but should rather be seen, sometimes at least, as a healthy return to reality, because disillusionment is such in relationship to the previous illusion, but seen from the perspective of the future, it can lead to a re-evaluation of the relationship which is not necessarily its degradation. In other words, it is a matter of taking note of the reality of the other, or at least of a less mythical and distorted image of him, which can profoundly and not always negatively modify the internal balance of the couple. Overcoming the couple crises, which often derive from disappointments, can even consolidate the relationship. In long-distance relationships, involvement is largely linked to the myth of the partner, the relationship is based on words and easily controllable situations. In cohabitation, the possibility of more or less deep misunderstandings with the partner is very concrete, one realizes that even sexual compatibility is conditioned by the fact that different individuals have different visions of sexuality and of being gay. Behaviors that are desirable for one of the two may not be desirable at all for the other, the example of coming out is enough here, but many other topics could be quoted here that are argument of frequent misunderstandings within the couple. In gay coexistence it is very easy to make mistakes even when the conditions for building a lasting couple exist. The relationships of stable coexistence without disappointments and without cracks don’t exist, a certain amount of conflict is physiological for the very existence of the couple. To realize a coexistence it is essential that the partners understand at the outset that there will be mistakes on both sides and that rigid positions risk destabilizing even the couple relationships that had all the theoretical presuppositions of solidity at their origin.
 
Disillusions, as mentioned, are often reciprocal, but it is not certain that they are obvious, or that they are on both sides. Disillusionment is often kept to oneself while waiting for it to be disproved and vanish and this indicates that the myth is in crisis but has not completely collapsed. In these cases, those who hide their disappointment tend to assume a characteristic claiming attitude, staying in the couple assumes for them the sense of waiting for the decisive proof, until the measure is filled and the account is presented to the partner by listing or better by reproaching him all together his shortcomings or presumed such, it is the moment of the so-called showdown, in these cases the answer can be cold (the worst answer), frustrated or even claiming, in the latter case, the partner to whom the bill has been presented presents the bill to the counterparty in turn, to put on the scales the expectations and faults of the two parties. Even in these cases, however, it is by no means certain that the couple's life goes irremediably to pieces, the situation turns to the worst when the two separate without having either resolved or lightened the conflict situation, that is, when the attitude is rigid.
 
Obviously cohabitations are unstable equilibria in which, especially in a very early phase, small corrective thrusts are sufficient to maintain the balance. It should be added that cohabitation, if on the one hand it can lead to the demythization of the partner, on the other hand it can make one partner discover the qualities of the other partner that are less evident at first sight. One of the qualities of a partner that emerge in long cohabitation is non-destructiveness, that is the ability to manage the destructive tendencies of the other, to cool tones and conflicts, to minimize the negative and to enhance the positive of a relationship.
 
Ultimately, the myth of the partner born in the seductive phase fully collides with reality only when it comes to a long-term coexistence. In this phase, the demythization of the partner takes place, which leads to a re-evaluation of the elements on which the couple is based. The outcome of this new evaluation is not destructive in itself, but can lead to a re-foundation of the couple's life on less projective and more realistic assumptions.
 
The "unconditional compliance" that is the tendency to always say yes to one's partner in order to save the relationship, deserves a separate consideration. The very concept of dynamic equilibrium implies that the thrusts must be balanced and that, if to the pressures exerted by one of the two always corresponds to a yielding of the other, the equilibrium cannot be maintained, the requests for adaptation will progressively extend to all areas of shared life and beyond, and that equality that represents the essential core of the gay couple will eventually be wiped out. In this way not only will life as a couple not be preserved but it will be reduced to a series of obligations or a series of psychological addictions.
Here are some excerpts from the e-mails to illustrate what has been said.
 
SEDUCTION
 
“He calls me on video and immediately tells me: You are beautiful! But he is beautiful! He looks like an actor and he has a hot, sexy voice. When he saw my photos for the first time he was speechless and didn't believe it was me! He told me that he has never seen a handsome guy like me, that I have taste, that I dress well, that I know how to choose the haircut, that I listen to the right music, the same one he listens to, that we have the same tastes. He is a sunny guy but he has no friends. When we talk he tells me beautiful things, I tell him that I’m not as he sees me, that I have a lot of defects and that he is mythologizing me and he replies that he can't wait to meet me in person."
 
SEXUAL LANGUAGE
 
“There are some things I can't stand in his way of doing, first of all the language. We have sex with each other, but when he talks about it he uses certain vulgar terms that really get on my nerves, I wonder where he learned to speak like that. He tells me that I'm a hypocrite and that I want to save my face of good guy , and he can't stand that I want to save my privacy. He tells me that if I do sexual things I have to call them by their name, but I don't see those things as he sees them, assuming he really sees things differently, but when he talks about sexual things with me he uses his own language, so vulgar that I can't stand it at all, then, when he gets angry with me, my God, he speaks with a language worthy of the worst porn and when he does that I would throttle him."
 
FORCING
 
"One thing I can't stand about my boyfriend is the fact that he wants to force me to do things (sexual things) that I don't want to do and that he obviously did or perhaps still does with others. On some things I can also give in but on others I should really impose it on myself with violence and I just don't want to do so. When I say no to him in a very decisive way, at first he insists and even too much, and then he seems to go beyond, as if nothing had happened, but when we happen to quarrel he pulls these things all out and reproaches me them, he tells me: "You must always do as you say!" (which, by the way, is absolutely not true), then he tells me that I don't really love him because I don't always do what he wants, but I say: if we are together, I give in on one thing and you on another! Why he doesn't he realize that sometimes he just asks me absurd things, that I really can't stand?"
 
RECOVERY MANEUVERS
 
"The other day we had a fight over a very stupid issue, or rather the bickering started from there: to wear socks or not when we have sex, he only wears those socks for the foot, I wear normal short socks, but he wanted me to take them off and I didn't understand why, since he wore them, a string of complaints about my behavior started from such a stupid thing, basically he told me that I never said yes to him and that I had to argue about everything and then, once he started in fourth gear, he went on and never stopped, at a certain point he dressed as if he wanted to go away and I said to myself: What is he doing? Is he really leaving for such a thing? But he's out of his mind! So I told him I felt like a complete fool for looking for him and it would never happen again, then he changed his tone, undressed again and got back on the bed and then he said to me: Come here! I asked him if he would still say the stupid things he had just said to me and he replied that he had said too few and that he says such things for my own good, even if I don't understand it. Anyway, at least he has the dignity to go back!"

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  ARE WE A GAY COUPLE TOO?
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-17-2021, 07:21 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

People say that having a boyfriend is a beautiful thing, for years I have believed that this expression was absolutely exaggerated, I believed it because I had had some guys and had had my first experiences with them, they were good guys, I don't deny it, but when our stories ended up in nothing I was happy that they were over, I used to promise myself not to look for another guy, but then, you know how things use to go, inevitably another story started with less motivation and less illusions and story after story the myth of the love story tended to evaporate without a trace, in the end I was disillusioned, not frustrated but just disillusioned. 

Then I met my current boyfriend. I was problematic, he was problematic, The dialogue was difficult, sometimes frustrating and he displaced me with the coherence of his reasoning and his underlying basic negativity, but also with the clarity of his thought. I had met him in chat and we had talked for months without ever having seen each other, then we realized that we lived in the same city and we met. I was immediately struck by his physical presence, I had never seen such a handsome guy and I thought that between us it would never work because he would never be interested in me, but I would have liked him I don't say that he was my boyfriend but at least a true friend, let's say it would have been enough for me, maybe not, but I think it would have been enough for me. 

He was not a happy guy, he didn’t smile but used to make a slight sarcastic grin at my every attempt to make him see the world in a positive way, it was a spontaneous attitude and I think completely unconscious, a sort of automatic reaction of one who feels that he is being offered things that seem to him just fairy tales. In the first period we hadn’t seen each other in person but we used to talk a lot in chat, it happened several times that we spent the full night chatting till the dawn, he was often depressed to the point that he made me fear that he might make some rash gesture but when he mentioned such speeches he did it only by talking in general. The very long phone calls practically always began with a strongly depressed tone and ended in a slightly more serene way after hours of confrontation and even long silences. 

At first neither he nor I thought we would ever become a couple, we just talked about frustrations, big problems of life and other things like that. He had his own love life with which I had nothing to do and in fact I didn't even want to have anything to do and I think he was completely disinterested in me in the sense of building a couple with me. We were just chat friends but maybe talking to me for hours made sense to him too. I kept my distance and didn't look for him because sometimes talking to him made me very anxious. Our relationship had nothing of what one would expect from a romance. 

The beginnings were difficult, often very difficult, he never got angry with me, but he tended to point out that he was not interested in me, that he was not my boyfriend and when he did he seemed to be talking about a paradoxical hypothesis and almost grotesque and this sometimes bothered me but, after the clarification, however, he returned to very serious speeches, I think he had a good opinion of me from the beginning, perhaps he saw me as a possible friend to test, but not in order to consider me like a boyfriend but just to be able to consider me a true friend. 

He was depressed but deep down he recognized me a certain goodwill towards him. His reasoning was lucidly depressing but he was not aggressive either towards me or towards other people, if anything, he tended to feel guilty and depressed, his self-esteem was very low and I couldn't understand why, because, apart from his physical beauty, his intelligence seemed to me absolutely unique, I don't mean only that he was very intelligent but also that he had an intelligence that was absolutely his own, rigorously logical, he seemed to me that he hadn't at present a true emotional intelligence and I was inclined tu suspect he hadn't had it either in the past. The very idea of affectivity seemed to him completely irrational, a way of undermining his own logical coherence. 

The first few times he came to see me and had to take a very long road, several kilometers, because at the time he didn't have a car and was riding a bicycle, then I started to go and wait for him near his house, but not under his house, because he wanted me to keep my distance from his home. Sometimes I had the very concrete temptation to slip away and not get involved further, because our relationship was yes interesting but also stressful and frustrating, because my presence seemed to produce no result, but he never allowed me to leave, rejected me with his sharp logical reasoning and his reductive clarifications, he made me uncomfortable in the face of my hypocrisies but he kept looking for me, we talked less frequently but when it happened we talked for hours, he began to discover something about me and my previous life and also began to have his say on these things and without reticence, he reproached me for my logical inconsistencies, for not doing what I really wanted, for my being restrained, my thinking too much without acting, my continually trying to devalue sexuality which, instead, was a fundamental thing for him, the only a fundamental thing, given that for him the emotional life was nothing but a chimera without meaning. 

Then, slowly, but very slowly, something began to change. He intrigued me very much also and perhaps above all for his leaving but never definitively. He threw a bucket of cold, or rather frozen, water at me, but then every now and then he smiled at me to tell me that even though I had so many faults he still considered me a true friend. We never used affectionate expressions or expressions that could make us think even remotely of a relationship between us, indeed, between us by definition there was nothing, because he wouldn't have accepted that there was something, but slowly, beyond words, I began to feel that he was studying me, that he was trying to figure out if he could trust me. He showed up more often at my home, asked me pressing and almost embarrassing questions about my sex life, my relationships with my friends, my previous stories, he cornered me, demanded clear-cut or at least radically honest answers, but I didn't have many clear-cut answers to give him. 

He expected me to have a sex life at least at the level of his and he was puzzled when I told him it was much more standard and more mundane. He hardly believed it and repeated the same questions to me even two or three times. Let me be clear, he had had his stories, of which he told me almost nothing and for this very reason in our relationship there had been long pauses, during which I began to think that he had disappeared, that he had finally found a guy who really suited him, but then, even in the early stages of our relationship, after a few weeks, he would call me back and it was like the break had never existed. I owe him a lot, I love him, I respect him as a man, I feel gratified that he takes me seriously, but then we were at the beginning and I couldn't imagine what he could want from me and above all what could make him feel bad, because sometimes he was really bad. 

Sometimes he called me at night and asked me to go near his house and he went down and stayed in my car in silence, he knew I would never say no, my presence made him feel more calm, at certain times he was agitated, anguished, the word desperate is perhaps the most suitable, he saw himself as hopeless. His love stories, or rather as he used to say his sex stories, didn't pull him out of his melancholy. I was beginning to understand that our "non-relationship" had its own meaning and consistency. I tried to ingest myself into his life as little as possible, but he was beginning to insert himself into mine in an ever deeper way, and sometimes I was afraid of this, then sex came when I least expected it. 

He had a boyfriend but he also felt attracted to me, it hadn't been like that from the beginning, everything was born very gradually and quietly, even if in the end I had begun to suspect how things really were. He made me understand that he needed me also from that point of view, he realized that, when he started talking about these things, I tended to run away and change the subject and then he was really explicit. When it first happened it was all incredibly easy and abysmally different from what I had imagined, I thought I would never get involved in such situations but he was patient, cautious, extremely attentive to my reactions, I would say lovely. I don't know if this can be called affection. It had never happened to me to experience sex in such a beautiful and above all spontaneous way, and to see him so peaceful and fulfilled. 

At the time I was very conditioned by the fact that he had a boyfriend, being with him I felt like I was doing something that would have put the other guy in crisis, but he seemed to pay no attention to these things. After a few weeks he told me that his boyfriend was gone, since then I have had fewer problems while staying with him and a period has begun in which our relationship has taken on a distinctly sexual connotation. 

The thing itself didn't make me feel uneasy at all, quite the opposite! But there were two things that didn't allow me to better live the situation: firstly the fact that he was calm and in a good mood while we were having sex but, afterwards, his mood usually changed and darkened sharply and I couldn't get him back in a good mood, in fact the more I tried, the more he felt upset and angry with me, he was not aggressive but highly nervous, as if he had done something that perhaps he didn't really want to do or rather he didn't have to do. I couldn't tell him that I loved him because that would have made him mad, or at least I thought so at the time and our meetings practically always ended in bad moods and, secondly, having given our relationship a strong sexual connotation had somehow lowered the level of our dialogue, that is, our friendship had become more superficial, we talked much less and our meetings were reduced to being only sexual encounters and also very ritualized and repetitive. During our meetings he didn't even want to be caressed, the idea of kissing each other would have put him in crisis because for him the kiss tasted too much of an emotional relationship, while he considered sex an obvious and problem-free thing. 

Once he asked me if I was happy with the evening and I replied that I was happy because he was there, but he didn't want to hear such things and insisted on telling me that I was a hypocrite and that I pretended not to understand that he was talking about what we had done together because he had insisted a little too much to induce me to do something that didn't come naturally to me, according to him he had done very well to insist because he had made me discover something new and also very interesting in his opinion. I hadn't told him no, basically I didn't feel very involved in certain things but I was happy not to have said no to him because I thought that if I did, he would have been worse. 

Sometimes he knew a new guy and maybe he even fell in love with him, then he disappeared for a while, because he tried to be faithful to the new guy, then after a month or so, he reappeared and it was obvious that he was alone again. There was a time when he wanted me to experience "his" sexuality and was very insistent on this point. In the end I didn't say no to him this time too, but after that time he didn't insist anymore, because previously he had insisted a little too much, forcing his hand a little, just to see if in the end I would give in, not for the thing itself, once he got the proof that I wouldn't have said no anyway, the requests stopped, the relationship became less sexual and more affective, there was also sex, but there was no longer the sexual frenzy, and above all we started talking again seriously. 

He was always depressed but in a more calm way, he told me things about his life that I would never have imagined and which must be very difficult to talk about, it was then, that is, when I realized that he totally trusted me, that I fell in love with him in a profound way and I spent months of relative happiness, I say relative because I kept seeing him depressed. We spent a lot of time together, we knew each other well and objectively we loved each other. 

Once, three years ago, he texted me for the first time with the word ILY! (I love you). I think it was one of the best moments of my life. We had both graduated and worked in very different industries but we still lived each in his parents' home. He had his stories but I didn't interfere, and he hardly ever talked about them. When we saw each other there was always a bit of sex and unfortunately in the end there were also melancholies, but we had a real dialogue, there were things about me that he didn't understand, that he interpreted in his own way, but it would have been useless to try to give him explications, because explications are made up of words and his way of understanding me was at another level, that is, at a sexual level, a level that I had always tried to put aside. 

I wanted to ask him why after sex "with me" he was sad, then I asked him the question but omitting the "with me", he didn't know what to answer, he just said to me: "It's not that I don't want to answer you, I just don't know, it's an automatic thing that I can't control." What was he looking for from me? At first I really thought it was just sex, but that feels more like a means than an end to me. Today, when he's not with me, objectively I miss him, I don't know if he misses me in the same way, maybe not in the same way, but I think he also misses me a little. 

When I haven't heard from him for more than two weeks I begin to be afraid that our relationship has come to an end, but so far my fears have always been denied and indeed it is precisely the duration of our relationship that encourages me to think that in any case I will see him again and in a short time. In fact, among his merits there is his being direct and transparent, he is so used to taking blows in life that he almost takes them for granted, he is not vindictive, he doesn't keep his feelings secrets to revenge in the future, he doesn't defend himself by attacking, you cannot expect a bond from him like the oyster on the rock, but you know that he is there and that he will never disappear in thin air, he needs his total freedom but he doesn't forget you, if you make a mistake with him, he minimizes the mistake, he doesn't blame you anyway, he doesn't take advantage of any advantageous positions, he doesn't see the relationship with you as a game of chess to win and not even as an opportunity to get some more gratification, indeed, if you try to flatter him he slows you down because he feels somehow made fun of, he expects from you a behavior like his, that is spontaneous, without duties and without real expectations. 

I think I'm in love with him, or at least a little in love. I have known many guys in my life, but he is my model of man, both physically and mentally, he is the man I have always dreamed of. He's not afraid of me, he respects me, I think he loves me in his own way too, even if he would never accept this terminology. I desire his presence, when he is there I have no qualms of any kind and neither has he, he is the only man with whom I have never felt embarrassed and by whom I have never felt judged. 

Sometimes, he doesn't fully understand me, because he too has his preconceptions, but then overcomes them and is willing to change his mind on the rare occasions when it makes sense to do so, but they are really rare occasions. Why is only him left in my mind? I don't know but that's exactly what happened. I thought that sex with him could create problems, at first it sometimes happened, but today it doesn't happen anymore, if I opened myself to understand the meaning of sexuality lived in two, the merit is solely his, because he had patience, he had a lot patience and treated me with sweetness, like no one else had done. 

Dear Project, I’m writing you this email because I haven't heard from him for four weeks now and this fact puts me in crisis, I miss him, I would like to know how he is, but I don't call him and I wait for him to do it. This time the pause was long, and I begin to fear that the pause could become definitive. Falling in love is not always a thing that leads to happiness, there is also a lot of suffering. I tell you honestly that I would be happy if he found another guy, but I wish he were happy at least. We are both 33 years old, luckily we have a job but we are still two drifters without an emotional reference point, sometimes I think that reference point is there, sometimes not and then I feel adrift and I miss him damnably .
 
Matthew88
 
If you think this email is also useful to others, do what you think best but, if you can, answer me in private.

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  GAY SEX AND GAY LOVE
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 08-31-2021, 03:33 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - Replies (1)

Hi Project, I’m sending you a page of my diary, do with it what you want, it’s a love tribute for the guy who changed my life.
 
“You call me and tell me: I'm coming to you, I need to come to you. I look forward to seeing you, I don't know how I will find you. Last time it was difficult, you weren't calm at all, you had lost your traditional optimism. I carefully prepare our bed so that you can notice an extra gesture of attention towards you. You arrive home, you are upset, very tired, sweaty. You tell me you need to take a shower, while you are in the shower, I change the towel and then I go to wait for you in the bedroom. You arrive with wet hair, rub it vigorously with the towel, then dry your beard, finish drying your hair and beard with a sheet of cleaning-paper, then you put down your glasses and lie naked on the bed, I finish undressing and lie down beside you. You turn to me and hold me tight. I feel that you are totally involved, that having sex with me responds to a deep desire, to a need. You know that I’m happy to be with you, maybe I’m less involved than you because I have a different temperament but you know that I wouldn't like anyone better that you because you are the only guy I really want, maybe because you are the only one who really wants me. By now sex between us is completely devoid of rituals and doubts, you need to feel free, you need someone who wants you without attempting to change you, in sex as in life you are not selfish, you are not dominant, I’m your friend and your lover both things altogether, I never felt like your toy, you never demanded anything, you agreed to adapt to me and take me as I am, you never deceived me. Sometimes I see you shivering with your eyes closed and I'm happy to be able to offer you at least a few minutes of oblivion of reality. Then when you open your eyes, I try to understand what there is behind those eyes, sometimes you smile at me to make me understand that you are fine and that you are happy with me, other times in your eyes I see so much melancholy and then I hold you tighter, to make you forget the world. I’m often amazed at how our sexual rhythms perfectly agree, at the beginning there was some misunderstanding between us but nothing similar happens anymore, you know me thoroughly, you leave me totally free, I feel your attention, your care for me, that care that you will never admit but that shows in whatever you do. We don’t need words, we understand each other even in silence, there is mutual respect between us, it is automatic to ask ourselves in advance if the other agrees, it’s natural accepting the idea that we have to decide everything together, because the most important things must be done by mutual agreement. Our greatest gratification lies in the awareness that the other is there and is happy to be there, that he doesn’t feel uncomfortable but feels really free. You know that with me you can be yourself without filters and that you will be answered without filters. We not only share sexuality but also melancholy and even frustration. Our relationship is not a continuous exchange of affection because we don’t live together, our relationship is made up of separate but very intense moments and we both know that those moments will never be lost, our dialogue is made up of minimal things, of words and gestures of which only we know the meaning. Your unexpected phone call, even a few words that remember the last time we made love, it changes the tone of my whole day, it's a way to tell me: I felt at ease with you and I want to see you again soon! When I see your name appear on the screen of my mobile I start to get excited and I take it for granted that it happens to you too, and I desire to be with you and I know it will not happen too late, a day or maybe two and I will see you again, I will hug you and I will see you shiver in my arms. What I fear is the after-sex, when the love pause is over and the brain returns to the usual thoughts, when it seems that the problems are bigger than us and the melancholies return, but even this fear is slowly dissolving because sex has opened the doors of a more direct and immediate communication. I often wondered how we managed to choose each other and get together because apparently we are very different guys. As far as I'm concerned, your beauty, both physical and moral, has to do with it. When I look at you on the bed I feel lucky because I have besides me the only man I really wanted, who embodies my ideal of virility but also of sweetness. I thought it would never happen and I kept me at a distance, but you got me out of my fears because you wanted me and you had patience, you understood that I was on the verge of running away but you didn't let me. You spoke little but you were a constant presence, I didn’t understand what you could find in me, I thought that in your life I would be a marginal element but day after day I saw that it was not so. Our relationship is ours alone, no one has to ruin it, no one knows we're together. We have no secrets between us, no skeletons in the closet. You know and respect my weaknesses and I know and respect yours. You have beautiful eyes, especially when they smile, sometimes we talk through our gazes and I dream that your eyes can always smile, that your soul knows a deep serenity, the same you transmit to me when you hold me tight."

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