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Posted by: gayprojectforum - Yesterday, 06:55 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

- Mark writes: but you make a speech a bit 'strange
- Luke writes: why?
- Mark writes: ... I do not know ... this friend for you seems to me that really matters a lot ...
- Luke writes: yes indeed yes ... we have known each other for years, we tell each other everything ...
- Mark writes: but do you have a girlfriend?
- Luke writes: no ...
- Mark writes: and why not?
- Luke writes: well ...
- Mark writes: but what does it mean?
- Luke writes: ...
- Mark writes: oh my God, are you gay? ...
- Luke writes: ...
- Mark writes: damn it, I'm sorry
- Luke writes: what are you sorry for?
- Mark writes: well, I don’t know, I was saying just to say...
- Luke writes: Come on, tell me what you really think
- Mark writes: ... what can I tell you? ... it's not that I feel embarrassed but it had never happened to me before and then I would not have expected it from you, I'm sorry, I don’t know ... damn I do not know what to say ... but I feel embarrassed ... no, maybe not, anyway ... I do not know ...
- Luke writes: come on, speak clearly ...
- Mark writes: in short, I expected it, that is, I immediately understood it ...
- Luke writes: but a second ago you said exactly the opposite ...
- Mark writes: no, well … how sensitive you are ... you don’t forgive me anything ...
- Luke writes: oh ... Mark ... if you want, we can stop the chat here …
- Mark writes: and why?
- Luke writes: well ...
- Mark writes: but what does it mean?
- Luke writes: ...
- Mark writes: but I have nothing against gays, we are civil persons ... if you're like this ... I can tell you ... ok, ok ... just don’t run too much ...
- Luke writes: but have I ever done it?
- Mark writes: no ... perhaps you think I'm a redfish, I mean ugly ...
- Luke writes: but come on!
- Mark writes: well, I do not know, I said just to say ... a stupid joke ... but, seriously, what do you plan to do?
- Luke writes: in what sense?
- Mark writes: I don’t know ... go to a psychologist ... see if you can do anything ...
- Luke writes: that is?
- Mark writes:... I do not know ... but do you want to remain like this? If you have problems with girls I have heard that something can be done, you can ask your doctor perhaps with the viagra ...
- Luke writes: but do you know what a gay is?
- Mark writes: he is one that when he is with a girl his dick does not stand up, but you don’t have to be affected by these things, I think that something can be done ... just find the right doctor to solve the problem and then we'll go together to look for prostitutes ... nice Luke!
- Luke writes: no ... I guess you didn’t understand ... I'm not impotent ...
- Mark writes: so what is it? If your dick stands up with a woman what’s the problem? ... and I think you're not even gay ... this thing now you are putting it in your head as well as a fixed idea ... but I know it's a big bullshit. ..
- Luke writes: well ... no ... I want to be with the guys ... I fall in love with them ...
- Mark writes: what does this mean? But it's not possible! How can you do such a thing? It does not really make sense ... it would be like if I thought I'd fall in love with you but it's crazy ...
- Luke writes: ...
- Mark writes: oh my God, what happened? Did you get offended? ...
- Luke writes: no ... I’m used to the fact that no one understands anything ...
- Mark writes: but that should I understand? Come on! Don’t say bullshit! ... I make you know a girl that when I see her I immediately get a hard-on ... when you are there you cannot resist ... you see her and all the stupid fantasies go immediately away ... Luke, come on ... it’s only bullshit ...
- Luke writes: ... If we have to go on like this it is better that I close ...
- Mark writes: but ... do you really think you're one of those? ... Luke!! Don't worry, with that shit of people you have nothing to do! but have you seen what funny types they are? They are pathetic ...
- Luke writes: I leave you, I go ... it's better ... bye
- Mark writes: wait! Damn! But where are you going! Stop there! I don’t eat you ... damn when one wants to help a friend at the end gets only punches!
- Luke writes: sorry, sorry, but I don’t want to be helped ... I want to be what I'm, nothing else!
- Mark writes: I think you don’t even know what you say ... Oh well ... do you want to do that? Just do it! In the end it's just your problem! At the end of you I do not care at all! You want to be shit ... and then people treat you like shit ... it's right, no?
- Luke writes: Hi Mark
(and closes the chat. Mark reopens the chat immediately)
- Mark writes: Oh! Woe to you if you close another time the chat this way! You make me angry ... but you have just a temper ... You mean you're gay, all right, do as you please! You want to be an asshole ... Do it!
- Luke writes: if you start again, I turn it off ... Mark, if you don’t have a minimum of respect, go to hell and that's it!
- Mark writes: Oh well, sorry, sorry ... but seriously why don’t you go to a psychologist? A good psychologist in my opinion can get you out of this mess ...
- Luke writes: what the hell do you say!
- Mark writes: well, I don’t know, I said so ... but what do you think you're doing?
- Luke writes: what should I do? Anything!
- Mark writes: but if you don’t go to the psychologist this thing becomes a sort of fixation, while I think there are many things to do ...
- Luke writes: do you have to continue this way?
- Mark writes: okay ... you're right ... let's pretend that you're right ...
- Luke writes: Mark I'm tired of listening to nonsense ...
- Mark writes: oh! well I'm tired too ... and you said much more bullshit than me ...
- Luke writes: I cannot stand you anymore ... Mark that’s enough! ... But why did I tell you about my business? ... I cannot stand it anymore ... leave me alone!
- Mark writes: No! Otherwise what are friends for? ... you've got a bullshit in your head and I have to wash your brain ... that's all ... But did you tell Sandro?
- Luke writes: no! ... but why? Did I have to tell him?
- Mark writes: no, but you know ... he also seems a bit strange ...
- Luke writes: what the hell do you say?
- Mark writes: well ... I told you ... anyway do what you want! ...
- Luke writes: I told you and I was wrong because you are treating me absurdly and you don’t even understand what you say…
- Mark writes: but you know that Sandro thought he could take you too to that… girl I told you before ... I had brought him there before ...
- Luke writes: but was not he gay?
- Mark writes: well ... but he came to that girl ... if you had come too, she would have had the same effect on you too...
(Luke finally closes the chat.)

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - Yesterday, 12:48 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

It's a day like many, in the morning at work I know I'll meet him, perhaps I'll see him for five minutes, at most ten, and this already makes me uncomfortable, he's not working in my room and if he were there it would be embarrassing, if I could I’d like better avoid to see him at all and instead the torment will be repeated even today because he will have to pass in my room, if I'll can understand when, I will try not to be there, I feel uncomfortable if I have to stay there while he is there looking at me. 
Let me explain immediately: I am a 31-year-old gay man and I carelessly made the declaration of love to a 26-year-old guy who works in my office and he took it very badly. At the beginning I was afraid that he would disgrace me but he didn’t and now it's been two weeks, there is no longer any dialogue between us, he reacted very badly, he felt soiled by me, he tried to behave formally, but it was clear that he could not bear me anymore, I tried to apologize but he didn’t even hear me and he left. Before we used to say goodbye and go to have coffee together, but now he disappeared and even asked for a transfer to another office. As for me, I was shitty ... 

I didn’t expect such a reaction, it was a terrible moment, he grimaced with his face and then he made a gesture with his hand as if to say: "What have you put in your mind?" I fell from heaven to hell in a second and then you know, in an office like ours the risk for these things is big, but he didn’t say anything, it seems to me that with the others everything is exactly as before but maybe he didn’t gossip not so much out of respect of me but mostly not to get involved he too.
I had waited months before declaring myself and everything seemed to be in order, I would have bet he was gay, it seemed to me that all reasoning led to the same conclusion, I seemed to have had some encouraging signals, but obviously everyone interprets signals as he likes better. We even exchanged presents, I gave him a pen drive for PC and he gave me the poems of Garcia Lorca, but when one gives you a similar book, what have you to understand? That the one who gives it to you is hetero?
Evidently he had never read the poetry of Lorca and I was screwed, but this is not enough, we went a couple of times to eat a pizza together and we talked about everything, it seemed absolutely obvious to me that he was gay, no talk of a girl but only of a person, he spoke of loneliness and so on ... I read on this blog of splendid gay-straight relationships, but why didn’t it happen to me? If he had been heterosexual and had not taken it badly, it would have been all the same for me, less good but good the same. But no, he reacted just with a form of refusal, I would say rejection, just with a sense of disgust. What ugly adventures you must pass! If a woman fell in love with me I wouldn’t treat her like that, I certainly wouldn't encourage her, but I wouldn’t treat her with such a violent detachment, it's not right.
But why should he treat me like that? Perhaps he’s trying to make his moral prevalence weigh looking at me from up down, a bit like a worm you don’t crush not to get your shoes dirty. Now when I see him from a distance I change road, twenty days ago I tracked him, I wanted to know everything about him, now I do not care about him anymore, I feel humiliated, I had never felt so low, I have to stay in the hole, when I try to go out even if in a very prudent way, because this time I was very cautious, I realize that it is better not to go out from the hole. But how do they do those who live as a couple? Can you let me know how you found the right person? I would really like to understand if there are real possibilities, because it seems to me that there are not at all. I don’t say just to say but where can you find serious guys just to chat a little with?
Where I live, in practice I don’t see any real possibility, the environment is very small and very gossipy. Here, if there are gay guys, they certainly cannot have a place to meet. At the age of 31 I’m still totally devoid of direct experience, not only sexual, but also emotional, I would love to have a gay friend just to be able to vent and to talk a little freely because it never happens to me and I begin to be fed up of dreams and fantasies. 

Frankly I think I'm a guy as it should be, I have no ulterior motives, I would never put in crisis a person who loved me, but life is passing by, now are 12/13 years that I know exactly what I want and are 12 / 13 years that I know I will not be able to get it, but why should one remain alone? I don’t see any serious reason, but in the end it just happens that way. There are many nice guys, but I risk repeating the story of my colleague and frankly a single experiences like that is enough for me. I live in a small town in the north, not far from Milan, but I seem to live on the moon, here there is nothing, at least there is nothing I want, here the guys, on Saturday night, go to Milan and I stay here, so where can I go? You cannot go far if you are on your own.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - Yesterday, 11:11 AM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

Hi Project, my name is F., I am 26 years old and I am Sicilian. I discovered your site a few months ago and immediately put it among my favorite sites, to be able to come back to it when I have some time to read it calmly. After doing it today, I decided to write to you to tell you my story and to do something good for myself ... 

Project, the more I get older the more I realize that I always knew I was gay, even at an early age. The first memories that come to my mind date back to when I was about 6 years old, and I was fascinated by my brother's best friend, a beautiful boy who is almost 10 years older than me. I have in mind a flash of that period when he, my brother and other boys, were outside my house, he joked and cuddled a schoolmate of mine and I wanted to be in his place. 

This guy (my brother's friend) has always embarrassed me (even today) when I see him but I never had any fantasies about him. Today he is father of 2 beautiful children, is a great person and in a sense I'm glad to think that since I was a child I had a great interest in the right people. Seriously, I don’t really have a good nose at all but exactly the opposite. 

Puberty and adolescence have been two important crossroads for the knowledge of myself. I discovered sex (the one concerning pornography) very early at the age of only 12, as soon as I began to feel the first sexual impulses, I discovered some of my brothers' porn movies and then I began to look at them secretly. Right from the beginning the attraction was towards the male body while I tried to pretend nothing, in hindsight I believe that inside me I never truly repressed my real nature even if with the rest of the world I did and keep doing the exact opposite. 

There was a period, around 14/18 years old, in which I imagined and prospected a sentimental future with a hypothetical girl (or even real girls) then I began to imagine with some resistance, in the future, a relationship with a hypothetical boy. Step by step year after year I stopped asking myself if there was something wrong with me, I stopped blaming myself, I stopped hating myself, I stopped feeling ashamed and I learned to understand myself and above all to love myself. 

Basically, today I have no problem with myself and every day that passes I feel more and more the need to take off this mask and live my life freely. Yet I don’t do it … with my family, my friends, even my business colleagues I pretend to be what I’m not, that is a "normal" straight guy with an overflowing sexual life, they consider me almost a womanizer for the crazy things I tell them. Anyway I have never had sex for the simple fact that I never had the balls to be myself to the end. Yet theoretically I've never had problems with sex, I often came close to have sex with girls, but my gay  "conscience" has always held me back, while I have never had the opportunity to have a relationship with a guy, even if I would like it better. 

I wasted too much time, too many years in this stalemate, Project, I would throw my head to the wall for the remorse I feel for this reason, for having lost so much precious time. If I could, I would go back and change everything. I try the strength to change today and yet I cannot or simply I'm too cowardly to really want to succeed. I thought the problem were my parents, two wonderful people, but they would not understand and would suffer in an absurd way for my "confession" and the last thing I want is to make them suffer. 

I am afraid that my friends can look at me with different eyes, and I have fought all my life for not being considered different and I would not bear it. I thought that changing city, being alone, could help me but now I cannot afford it, so what to do? Have I to stay that way and get to 40 years full of remorse and exhausted? No! I do not even think that it should end like this, I want to love, to be loved because I know that I have so much to give and I deserve it too. 

I believe that the greatest sin that can be done in life is precisely that of not living life to the full, not falling in love, not making love, not creating something that lasts and remains, otherwise what one has lived for? I'm afraid I can never try all this ... I know what it means to fall in love with someone, I tried it 20 years old with a friend of mine, I'm sure he too felt something for me, but we never deepened, he was engaged I was very far from a possible coming out.
My city is a city that does not help homosexuals, in the sense that this reality is lived in private, totally repressed, everyone knows if "X" is gay and hides it, or at least he doesn’t make it public pretending nothing. This is more or less the reality in which I live.

When I go out, if I'm having coffee at the bar or dancing etc., I happen to realize more and more often that a guy looks at me with insistence and then I think, well, maybe he is gay and I could try ... but no, I never dare to do it, also because I think the famous gay radar, as far as I'm concerned, can really work badly, I will have made the right choice at most a couple of times. I am also afraid of not finding what I am looking for, that is, a guy who is male in the true sense of the word, not effeminate, or various things. In short, I'm afraid that what I actually am can never get out. 

Project I wrote you this long email to understand more, I need your help sincerely because it is neither in heaven nor on earth that I have to live all my life like a shadow, I don’t want and I cannot think about it. 

P.S. if you want, publish my mail, if you think it can useful for someone, please just keep anonymity, my msn address is [omissis] if you want, add me. A hug F., and forgive the excessive length of the mail, but I had a lot to say.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-15-2018, 10:04 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

Hello Project, 
I send you this mail because I think it can be useful for many guys, if you want, you can publish it. 

I’m a 24 year old guy, I grew up in a family that loved me, at least at the beginning. Since very young I have been routed in all ways towards heterosexuality. The idea of a girlfriend was one of my obsessions well before I started having any experience of what sex was like. I have a cousin, she is two years older than me and is an only child exactly like me. I have no male cousins, she is my only cousin. I have just one uncle, my father's brother and my cousin's father. Since I was very young my parents have tried everything to make me put together with my cousin, they reminded me to make her a little "gift" when it was her name day or birthday and they paid the gift, but the little gifts, since I and my cousin were about 15/16 years old, had become very important gifts, valuable watches, gold brooches and even a ring, something like an engagement ring, even if nobody used this expression. 

At first I didn’t understand the meaning of all this and I felt a little flattered. We always went on holiday together, my family and hers (the only close relatives), we took a single apartment and we were together at the sea for two months. My parents have also given me a beautiful rowing canoe, naturally two-seater, my cousin and I were always canoeing, from morning to late evening, everything seemed normal. Let's say that up to 16/17 years old the constant presence of my cousin had also made me think that basically I could fall in love with her, even though my private sexuality has always been exclusively gay. 

The pressure of her parents on her produced the hoped effect, because I think she fell in love with me, but for me experiencing the pressure of my parents who assumed everything for granted was a real nightmare. Luckily my cousin is very Catholic and we can say that on the sexual side she always went on very slowly and, at least up to 19/20 years, she has never put me in great difficulty from that point of view. Then the problems started because it was clear that she was looking for a soft way to end up “there”, a bit for fun and a bit seriously she hugged me, when it was something simple and direct even if pretending I was interested at least partially, I could also let her do, in practice she was pampering me, but then, step by step she began to provoke badly trying to touch me. I stopped her once with an excuse, then another time with the thing of the religion and I began to distance myself. 

She insisted, I tried to thin out the situations in which we would be alone together, but sometimes it was inevitable and it happened and there I felt really aggressive, in other words I hated her. I’m not mad at my cousin who is also a beautiful and good girl, but I don’t want to end up crushed by a perverse mechanism of family nature and I don’t even want to tell my story to anyone, she is not a stranger but the daughter of my father's brother so, if she knew, even all my more distant relatives would know and for me such a thing is absolutely inconceivable. My business must be my own business. I know that if I don’t make a clear speech, I must shortly interrupt the relationship and it's exactly what I want to do immediately and in the most radical way, at the cost of destroying family’s harmony.
Last week, something happened that annoyed me extremely and made me realize how hypocritical are my parents. They invited my cousin for lunch at my house. Mom prepared everything and then she and dad came out with an excuse late in the morning. My cousin arrived, my parents had advised her by telephone that they would have arrived not before eight o'clock in the evening and "then" they communicated the same information to me too. In practice I was forced to stay alone at home with my cousin and no one takes away from my head that they did it on purpose because my cousin told me that she had told my mother that I never really tried to have sex or something similar with her. 

In short, my cousin, pretending to joke, this time tried badly to start something sexual with me. I rejected her drastically, she made for me a movie scene and went away slamming the door, obviously she calls my parents and tells them everything. They come home 10 minutes later (see the combination!), and they ask me what happened, I say screaming to my mother: "But do you know what did she want from me?" And my mother replies: "Well, and what's wrong?" My mother had always been an irreducible Catholic but according to her, the fact that I had to make love with my cousin (in a situation that my mother had combined!) was an obvious thing! 

My cousin I haven’t seen her for a few days now but I think they have convinced  / forced her to apologize, This thing makes me consider my cousin like a puppet in the hands of parents and uncles and I think they will come back to the assault. My mother attacked me head-on and wanted to know the details, then insisted to know if I had another girl. For my parents the idea that one can be gay is absolutely inconceivable, because they think a gay goes around like a fagot. I had the naivety to insist that there wasn't any other girl and here I have been really stupid, because now going back and invent one is very difficult. However, in one way or another I absolutely have to get rid of all these things, because I have come to hate my family that I consider an aggregate of hypocrisy and economic management. They never wondered what I could think. 

Project, you can understand what kind of gay life I can live! I have to be careful about everything, in practice sometimes I would have liked to start thinking about cultivating a serious friendship with two university guys. With them I tried to study together, maybe I would not have done anything anyway, but in practice I left the game before starting because I couldn’t go anywhere. Next summer I should graduate and cannot wait to leave home. I want to change city, if I can I will go abroad. I want to go away  non in order to do who knows what but to no longer see my parents who have only tried to cage me. 

I don’t know if I'll ever find a guy, maybe I will not find one but I'm prepared for this but what I want first of all is to leave home, I would just need to find a friend to chat a bit, to be myself, to stop finally pretending. I also said that I could make a nice coming out in the family disregarding everything and everyone, but I could do it only if I was no longer in my house. If I did it now it would be hell. But how do they do adult people and even culturally evolved not to have the faintest idea of gays? I also thought that many of my fears and worries could be meaningless and that maybe if I told them everything they would understand me, but I don’t think it would be that way. But now all these problems are still far away. 
Now I have to understand how to defend myself from the "apology" of my cousin. In the end I think the simplest solution would be to invent a girl or maybe take my parents to a concrete suspicion of this kind. I gave the phone number to several of my female friends who call me often and I went out with them in the evening several times in a row just to let them think that I have another girl. My mother may have the first suspicions. 

Project, it seems a paradoxical situation, what would you do? But things like this happen to many other guys? I would very much like to know it. Sometimes I feel really in a cage and I don’t have the courage to take a step and this, at 24, I think it's really crazy. Maybe I'm not up to the situation, but I prefer to think that my behavior derives from the need not to expose myself. I confess to you something else, it's the first time I've contacted a gay site and I'm a little worried because I don’t know what I can expect. Let's say that I'm in total zero in the gay dimension. The address of the sender of this mail is also my msn contact  (created for the occasion!). Hi Project, I would like to know what you think about.

M. P.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-15-2018, 12:13 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

My name is Mauro, I’m 24 years old, I would love to talk about homosexuality with someone in a serious way but I never succeeded, I never trusted anyone. With a psychologist who listens to me because I pay for it and who maybe gives me useful advices, I don’t even want to try, I wouldn’t feel at ease staying in front of a stranger or even a female stranger to talk about my sexuality, I don’t want to do the patient, then there are the priests, I tried to talk about homosexuality with a priest a half-time, in a very generic way, without even referring to myself and the reaction was so schematic and inhuman that it left me stunned. I would like to talk about homosexuality but not with one who talks about it because he has studied it reading books. What can a woman psychologist know about male homosexuality? She knows it in theory. And for a priest it's the same, unless he's a gay too. I would like to talk about homosexuality with a gay but here there are a mountain of problems. First of all a gay man could want me as a sexual object, I know that there is nothing wrong but it is something I don’t like because it ruins the possibility of talking seriously, I wouldn’t feel free and I would try to defend myself. But let’s go to my story. 
Now I don’t remember well because they are very old things, but up to 14 years old I think I have been more or less gay, if such a thing makes sense, I masturbated thinking of boys and given my very free education I hadn’t at all feelings of guilt on the contrary it was something that had become so necessary that it was a real fixation and if I have to say all the truth it was the obsession of my adolescence, I did it too much, I almost went to the point of hurting myself, of course I couldn’t talk about it with anyone. I tried to hold myself back so as not to arrive at paroxysmal levels.
My anguishes have begun in the ninth grade. We took a trip to Paris with the school. At night there were two of us in each room because the rooms were small. The first night I and Mark (let's call him so) start talking ... obviously about sex, but in a very serious way, nothing morbid, talking just to compare our experiences. Mark tells me about a girl, I'm careful not to tell him that I'm gay, he definitely takes for granted that I'm straight, then tells me that he masturbates thinking about that girl and I answer in general terms that it happens to me too, obviously neglecting to say that it happened to me thinking of boys. Then something absolutely unexpected comes, a kind of lightning out of the blue, Mark tells me that "however" he sometimes masturbated even thinking of a boy.
I tried to put him absolutely at ease to make him talk but he was very reticent, while he wasn't reticent at all about the girl. Then we changed the subject and I was very sorry but I couldn’t insist. When we went to bed I was strongly recommended that I keep absolutely private the things he had told me. I told him that I felt happy that he had told me these things because it meant he trusted me and trusted me completely. I swear I had the strong temptation to tell him about me and I had to make an almost physical violence on myself to restrain.
The day after, Mark was embarrassed, he kept me at a distance, he stayed as much as possible with the other guys. I thought it was for the confession of his gay masturbation but then, after some time, it came to my head that Mark could be in love with me and that the mention of his gay masturbation was in essence a way to tell me it, but, even assuming it was so, not only at that time I hadn't foreseen such a thing, but in front of him I had taken a defensive attitude and hadn’t told him the truth just to keep my privacy.
The following days, for me, were a torture but I tried never to put him in trouble, when we were with the others I played the role of the fool to get his attention and he noticed it. The last night in the hotel  the magical atmosphere of the first night has recreated, we talked a lot, or better he talked a lot, he told me clearly that he was gay and that he didn’t ever have a girl, he was astonished at my reactions, I was listening to him with the utmost attention and asking him questions to make him talk, but always keeping myself out of the play. I asked him to tell me what it means to be gay and he told me so many things that I knew very well, but I didn’t let go to confessions that seemed to me too dangerous and I let Mark speak without saying anything about me.
I was torn in my soul. I didn't know what to do, but there was a basic reason that pushed me to shut up and it was that I didn’t like Mark physically. I liked hearing him talk about sex in such an intimate and direct way, and I was also very excited, but I didn’t intend to get involved in such things, maybe I felt a little desire to try (even more than a little!) But it was for the thing itself, I wasn’t in love with Mark and so I didn’t tell him anything. This time I was not recommended to keep the secret. When we came back to Italy, on the plane we were close to each other, I saw his hand resting on the arm of the chair that was attached to mine and I really wanted him to caress my hand at least for a moment but it didn’t happen.
With Mark we have been very friends, like two brothers, all the time of high school. He told me that he was fine with me "as if I were gay" but he said it in a very serious way. Basically I don’t think Mark ever questioned that I was straight and this made me feel like a worm on so many occasions. He trusted me and I didn’t trust him, now I regret it but at that time it seemed to me the only thing to be done.
The relationship with Mark has become profound over the years, even though I have always kept my distance from any possible implication on a sexual level. When he started going to the gym, at 17, I didn’t go there deliberately and avoiding to go there was very hard for me, he was the only gay guy I knew and he was a wonderful guy, not on a physical level, at least not for me, but he was an honest, generous boy, one whom you cannot help but love.
At the age of 18, he fell madly in love with Luke, one of our beautiful companions who played basketball with him. Mark was always in crisis, Luke didn’t even look at him and he came to seek comfort from me. Mark thought that Luke was gay but I had seen him with a girl in a such uninhibited attitude that a gay guy would never have shown, I told him: "Forget him, Luke is hetero! ... you must find a gay boy ... " and he told me: "But I don’t know any gay guy ... ". That was the straw that broke the vase ... and I said to him: "It's not true, you know me ..." He looked at me with two eyes wide open that I will never be able to forget: "You? ... ". He asked me why I hadn’t told him it before and I replied that I wasn’t in love with him and I didn’t want any complications, he was perplex, I feared his answer because I felt a hypocrite, but he immediately reassured me. .. "Well ... maybe you did well because in fact I've always had a half crush for you ...".
After this conversation he stopped fantasizing about Luke and started thinking about me. We were friends, at last we were admittedly two gay friends, he was not a disco-maniac, no mania about clubs or strange things. We saw each other practically every afternoon. He no longer went to basketball ... and we talked a lot, when it happened one afternoon that I couldn’t see him, I felt a sense of emptiness, of wasted time, a feeling of indescribable non-life. When he called me I felt immediately revived.
But there has never been sex between us. Now, to tell the truth, sometimes I think about it and sometimes I masturbate thinking of him, even if it is not common and it sounds a little strange to me, and I think he does the same, however, concretely, there has never been sex between us. I didn’t overcome the fact that he doesn’t really attract me physically. If Mark had the physique of Luke, he would be my ideal guy, but it is not so, he’s a great guy I don’t like too much physically.
There are many guys who excite me when I just look at them, with him it doesn’t happen to me, but I feel very impressed by his charm as a person. He knows that I'm not in love with him and he doesn’t even try a little contact with me, this thing is a good thing for me, but in another sense I'd like him to try and break the ice. I think he is in love with me, he has not found another guy, he has not even looked for a guy. He told me that he is well, but I don’t think it's the truth. In a sense I would like our relationship to develop but honestly I don’t feel a real transport towards him. From the day we started, let's say so, to love each other, I've known only another guy I really liked from the physical point of view but in front of Mark was a nothingness in every sense and in the end I let him go before starting because I cannot start a story with someone I don’t really admire, but on the other hand I think I couldn’t even be with someone who doesn’t physically attract me. I thought that maybe on a sexual level my interest in Mark could increase over time but until now it has not happened. My story stops at this point, I honestly don’t know how to behave. I'd like to know what you think about.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-14-2018, 05:09 PM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

Homophobia and homologation reaction 

As we have already observed, guys who recognize their sexuality as homosexuality inevitably feel, in many countries over the world, that for others their sexuality is object of jokes or at least that to others it seems strange and that the judgment that others give it is negative. These guys, since very young are fully aware that in order not to incur reactions of intolerance or homophobia, both at the level of friendships and social ambition, one must keep his homosexuality hidden. Since, generally, seeing the behavior of a gay guy it’s not practically possible to understand what is his sexual orientation, and therefore gay guys can be identified as such only if they speak specifically of their own sexuality, in the great majority of cases these guys don’t publicly declare themselves gay and don’t show any behavior that can allow others to identify them as gays but rather tend to conform externally to generally shared hetero behaviors. Therefore, gay guys not only do not talk about guys with their friends or in the environments they attend but sometimes they act as heterosexuals so as not to be identified as gay and to be integrated into the peer group.
Familial homophobia and defense strategies

As often the speeches heard in the family contain homophobic messages, a gay boy realizes the need not to reveal anything of his homosexuality even in the family or rather especially in the family. But since a gay boy lives and must continue to live with his family, at this point he takes the worry not to leave traces and therefore, for example, to erase the chronology on the computer, not to buy books or newspapers that talk about homosexuality, to erase the memory of the phone or to memorize the numbers using acronyms and not the real names of his friends and to avoid watching TV broadcasts such as films or debates on the theme of homosexuality, together with his parents. 

In the rare case in which parents exert an explicit pressure towards heterosexuality with classic questions like: "Do you have a girlfriend?", A gay boy is led to elaborate a strategy that allows him to circumvent the question without attracting attention. Probably, however, for a gay boy the most serious discomfort  resulting from the homophobia of his parents, consists in not being able to attend the boys who he would like to know. To indicate the condition of gay boys who don't declare themselves gay, it's commonly used  the expression "being in the closet",  that is, being closed in the closet and well protected.
Coming out and outing

For a gay boy it is not easy to keep everything for himself and not to confide completely with anyone, in fact, a gay boy often perceives by intuition, right from the speeches made with friends, that a male friend or a female friend of his probably would not react badly after learning that their friend is gay. The gay boy then enters a difficult phase of transition in which the emotional and communicative needs, related to being able to talk freely about oneself, collide with the need to avoid becoming an object of ridicule and of other people's gossip. So he gradually matures the idea of being able to confide at least with a person he trusts a lot, it is used to say that he matures the idea of making "coming out". 

Almost all gay boys, sooner or later, come to a coming out limited to one or a very few people chosen with the utmost caution. Obviously if a gay guy does not trust anyone and carefully monitors all his behavior, no one can come to understand that he is gay, while if he confides, even only with a person, he runs the risk that the person who is aware of his homosexuality can spread the news even without realizing it. When this happens, we are faced with what we call "outing" (which could be translated as "being pulled out" of course from the closet). A gay who comes out, even with only one person, therefore runs a risk of outing, but if that person is a serious and reliable person the risk is minimal even if it is never completely null. A young person, therefore, carefully choosing the recipient or the recipients of his coming out, can minimize the risk of "outing" very effectively.
Declared and undeclared

It is commonly used the distinction between "not publicly declared" gays and "publicly declared" gays, very often most synthetic expressions are used: "declared" and "undeclared", implying the adverb "publicly", because it is assumed that all gay boys, sooner or later, make a limited coming out with people they totally trust. As we have observed, the overwhelming majority of gay boys donot declare themselves gay publicly, it is estimated that in Italy the gays publicly declared are about 4% of the gay population, in other countries the estimated percentages are very variable because of the social sanction against homosexuality. In countries where homosexuality entails the death penalty no one declares gay, in those in which gays are entitled to marriage with people of the same sex and to adoption of children, gays publicly declared are certainly a fraction consistent of the gay population. 

In general, between a declared gay and an undeclared gay there are strong differences in the interpretation of the concept of "being gay". However, these great differences are largely due to the cultural environments that can be very different. In essence, declaring oneself or not is a choice strongly influenced by the social environment precisely because the level of riskiness of declaring oneself is enormously variable from situation to situation. Often, undeclared gays are led to think that the declared ones have declared themselves in order to have easier access to sex by attending gay-labeled environments, while the gays declared are led to think that the undeclared are essentially cowards who don't have the courage of their actions. In both cases these are biases that have no basis, precisely because they don't not take into account that the environments around the guys can be and are in fact very different. 

The family environments, even before the social ones, in which gays live are so radically different and so influential on the choice whether to "come out" or not that it makes no sense to compare individual situations related to non-comparable contexts. Today, in Italy, that is in a country where homophobia is still deeply rooted (the parliamentary path of the anti-homophobia law, which has not been approved, is enough to realize it), except for exceptionally favorable situations, the generalized "coming out" is not advisable. Many boys are led to think, and sometimes they are even led to think so by gay associations, that the generalized coming out is a moral duty, a demonstration of courage and in some way a due act. In reality we must never forget that coming out is in itself a risky act. 

Homophobia at school, at university and in the workplace is evident from many episodes of chronicle and moreover many homophobic discriminations are carefully hidden behind other motivations just to avoid them appearing as homophobic discrimination. It should never be forgotten that the generalized coming out is a gesture from which one can not go back, no matter what consequence it may derive from it, and therefore it is essential to reflect very carefully on the risks that must be faced before declaring oneself publicly gay.
Coming out with parents

A very particular type of coming out is the coming out with parents. In this regard, many variables must be considered with the utmost care. It must be taken into account that, if and when it arrives, the coming out with the parents is the last chronologically. Parents, however good parents they may be in other respects, can be absolutely unprepared for a son's coming out and radically incapable of evaluating things in a realistic way because they are influenced by various conditioning and preconceptions. Taking for granted the ability of parents to understand and accept the homosexuality of the son is very imprudent. 

If a coming out with a friend is not taken in the right way, it is possible to interrupt relations with that friend, but when it is the coming out with the parents not to be taken in the right way, cohabitation must continue and can definitely become unpleasant. There are still situations in which parents come to deny their son economic assistance during his studies (two parents who had a gay son who was studying in another city, had  rented a mini-apartment for the son and payed monthly the rent for him, once they knew that their son was gay, they stopped paying the rent and forced their son to give up his studies). In some cases, an adult gay son has been removed from home to separate him from the brothers because the parents thought it could be a danger for the brothers.
The situations of radical rejection are actually quite rare. In most cases, however, to the coming out with the parents follows the establishment of a cold climate, the homosexuality is censored and removed and parents pretend that nothing has happened or get behind the classic negationism with phrases like: "You will see that it will pass! It's just a phase" or "You just say it to provoke me!"
The medicalization reaction is quite common: "Tomorrow we'll look for a good doctor and we’ll see if we can do something" or refer to the psychologist, usually a psychologist indicated by parents. In all these situations it is evident that parents are unable to understand and accept and that the coming out was a hasty choice. Often the parent feels guilty and attributes the homosexuality of the son to an educational error or considers the homosexuality of the son as a kind of condemnation resulting from some fault of the parent himself.
Sometimes, over time, the situation improves and when the parents realize that their son's gay friends are boys like everyone else and that being gay is not synonymous with getting into trouble, they end up getting over their fears and accept the homosexuality of the son. It should be borne in mind that seeing parents talking quietly about homosexuality and maybe even seeing that they have gay friends, doesn't offer any guarantee in relation to their ability to accept their son's homosexuality. Speaking of homosexuality in general, considering homosexuality as something foreign and far away, and accept to have a gay son are two absolutely different situations.
Often gay boys, who have not explicitly declared themselves with their parents, think that parents have nevertheless come to understand that they have a gay son from some of behaviors of the son himself and from some of his speeches that the son himself considers as implicit declarations of homosexuality. These are generally presumptions that don't correspond to reality, because a parent, in front of his son's explicit discourses, puts the so-called "defensive interpretation" into play, that is, he interprets the implicit discourse according to the direction that minimizes the problems from his point of view. In this case the parent tends to avoid the interpretations that would lead to the hypothesis of the homosexuality of the son. Classic is the example of the interpretation of the fact that the son doesn't have a girlfriend:
"My son didn't have a girlfriend but he had some female friends and went out with them too, he had nothing against girls, girls frequently courted him but he has always been very serious and always put his studies in the first place. He had to graduate and couldn’t waste too much time. He studied every day with a friend and then they took exams and passed them and I was happy. Those very rare times I tried to talk to him about girls he told me that at the time he had other problems for his head and that he wanted to finish his studies first. I didn’t see anything strange in this whole speech.
Later when my son told me that he was gay I just fell from the clouds and he didn't know how to explain it because he thought I had already understood everything because he had made me half a speech, but I hadn't understood anything from that speech."
Unintentional Coming Out

So far we have talked about a coming out as a result of a more or less meditated and conscious decision but as a result of a decision. It happens, unfortunately quite frequently, that the strategies adopted by a gay boy to protect his own privacy don't work because of unforeseen events, in these cases the boy incurs, when he least expects it, in the unpleasant experience of an involuntary coming out, in which to the classic problems of the coming out must be added the fact that it is an absolutely unwanted event of which the guy becomes aware when the damage is already done. Classic examples of involuntary coming out consist of leaving the computer open on a gay site or leaving a chat conversation visible on a gay topic or not realizing that a gay-themed book has slipped under the bed. In these situations the coming out results from factual data and denying it is something completely meaningless. The boy who has stumbled into an involuntary coming out (very often with his parents) can blame only his own carelessness.
Privacy violations and forced coming out

When a gay boy who does not want to declare himself publicly gay behaves imprudently, especially in the family, and gives no explanation of behaviors such as going out and returning at any time, neglecting old friends, passing a lot of time on the internet, parents can start to suspect and can begin to cautiously investigate their son's behavior. In some cases, parents arrive to secretly read the text messages of the son stored in the phone, to listen to his conversations, to enter their son's computer to read his e-mails and the texts of his dialogues in chat.
Sometimes from these investigations the homosexuality of the son clearly emerges and all his acquaintances also emerge. In these cases we come to a showdown in which it seems that the guy is forced to declare his own homosexuality, but in fact the parents are already fully aware of it. Situations of this kind, precisely because they are preceded by an intrusive investigation in violation of the privacy of the son, lead to the definitive collapse of any possibility of dialogue between parents and sons and are very heavy for the boys.
However, if a boy foresees a possible investigation by his parents, he usually manages to take adequate measures, such as entering password protection, calling friends on the phone only from outside the home and other similar measures. In these cases it often happens that the suspicion of the parents doesn't lead to anything concrete, but a parent, arrived at this point, is not led to think of the possible homosexuality of the son but of objectively dangerous situations such as the use of drugs and the involvement of the son in unreliable friendships. When it comes to the showdown, the gay boy must face the so-called forced out coming that, while being unpleasant, is generally welcomed by parents as a release from much larger fears.
Coverage relationships and defensive coming out

When a gay boy, to avoid being identified as gay, comes, more or less consciously, to have a girl for reasons of coverage and slowly pushes himself to delude that girl, as if it were a real love story, it is not uncommon for the boy to end up being a victim of his own defensive game, that is to say he ends up feeling trapped in the story with the girl, a story that inevitably, sooner or later families will come to know and almost always accept and that will start to raise expectations of various kinds and therefore to create ties gradually closer. In this way a gay boy is very likely to go progressively, step by step, towards the official engagement and long-term marriage. When these situations become too tight, it sometimes happens, as an extreme choice, that the boy resorts to the so-called defensive coming out, that is, to telling the girl that he is gay and that things cannot go on just for this reason.
Obviously the families, both of the girl and the boy, are immediately aware of the thing but, paradoxically, the outcome of the defensive coming out is very often incredulity, in this case the gay boy, who had managed too well to convince the others that he was hetero, will struggle hard to make understand that his coming out is authentic and is not a vulgar pretext invented by a hetero to save himself from an unwelcome marriage.
Coming out addressed to a guy with whom one is in love
A very particular type of coming out is that addressed to a guy with whom one has fallen in love in the presumption that he too is gay and can respond with the desired phrase: "I'm gay me too!" If in general it is difficult to evaluate "in advance" the possible consequences of a coming out with friends and family, it is much more difficult to evaluate the consequences of a coming out addressed to a guy with whom one has fallen in love because here the judgment is easily distorted by the fact that there is a deep sexual and emotional involvement that leads us to see things as we would like them to be more than as they really are.
I would like to emphasize in this connection a very particular aspect, which is clarified by the following example.
"My boyfriend and I started dating only as friends, then everything came naturally, he never told me he was gay nor I told it him, there was absolutely no need, I never asked myself nor he asked himself,the classic question : "But is he gay?"  or rather I have asked myself and maybe even he asked himself but we never had the idea of coming to a forcing, that is to force spontaneity to know immediately, or at least soon, how things were, and then there are two facts, first of all I didn't want to lose him, even if he was just a friend, and then he is very shy and I didn't want any forcing, because he would have taken it as a "if you're not gay I don't care of you" while it was not like that. I knew that he was gay from the fact that being together was fundamental both for him and for me, there was total reciprocity from the beginning."
In practice the coming out towards a boy with whom one is in love, means forcing the other to come out in turn. Apart from the fact that the odds of being in front of a straight guy are still high, even when you are actually facing a gay guy, in the context of a truly mutual relationship, there is no need for any explicit coming  out because in these situations a gay boy comes very easily to decode the behavior of the other that goes in the desired direction. I must stress, however, that presuming that, if the other is gay, certainly a beautiful couple relationship will be born is quite unrealistic, because the well-known theorem "gay + gay = love" has nothing to do with reality.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-13-2018, 07:26 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

What follows is a text posted by a gay boy on the Italian Gay Project Forum, it is a very important document because it clearly summarizes all the perplexities that a relationship with a bisexual raises in a homosexual boy. This is not a strictly individual reaction. As I have seen through talks with dozens of gay guys who have had relationships with bisexual guys, the post below shows the reactions of almost all gays (especially those not openly out). 
Unfortunately, I feel compelled to face what is in my opinion one of the thorniest issues in the world of sexuality: bisexuality from a viewpoint of prejudices and marginalization. I know that now I will have the whole bisexual community against me, but I beg you to at least appreciate my good will to overcome my fears and prejudices on this issue, because, we must be sincere, unfortunately there are many people who harbor stereotypes about bisexuals, and for people I mean the vast majority of heterosexuals and even homosexuals. I beg you to identify yourself first of all in my point of view, in the way of thinking of a gay boy who, in his experience, has seen many discrepancies between words and deeds. I listen to your words, but for me the facts are fundamental, without facts and demonstrations, the words are zero for me, this in any case.
I'm here to write because I've had a lot of frequentations gone wrong with bisexual guys, who have deeply hurt me, and now I find it difficult to relate to other bisexual guys. Staying in couple with a bisexual for me means to be perpetually in competition with the other sex, with the awareness that, willy-nilly, a girl will always be privileged compared to me, because let's face it, a girl is able to give a boy much more than what I can give him. With me a boy would have to contend with the judgment of the people and could not make a family, because two boys cannot procreate. Being with a girl, for equal sexual pleasure, would be much easier: acceptance, approval from parents, marriage, children, happy old age etc.. 

Anyway I find scary the number of bisexual adults who, despite being engaged / married are looking for a "sex friend" on the most popular entertainment sites without any obligation and with "the maximum discretion". My first bisexual boyfriend had a female best friend who at the same time was his former girlfriend, and they often spent time together. This is something I didn't bear (you're thinking about a lack of trust, and maybe you're right, but I need to write everything down otherwise it would not make sense to stay here writing this post taking time out of the study), and it was one of so many reasons why I decided to leave him. 

The second bisexual guy I was with gave me several stab wounds from this point of view: "Put your soul in peace, my family will never know you, or if you really want, you can introduce yourself as a friend." These are phrases that make you feel very bad, it is humiliating that your partner is ashamed to be with you to the point of having to hide, it is humiliating to think that if in my place there had been a girl this sentence wouldn't even have crossed the antechamber of his brain. 

It hurts when your partner tells you that if you were a girl he would have kept you by the hand quietly, and instead ... Even the intimacy with a bisexual boy I didn’t live it happily: all with the fixed idea of anal intercourse already from the first meetings, as if it were something essential, absolutely not negligible that, sooner or later, absolutely must be done: "This position sooner or later we will do it." I’m an anxious guy, I admit, but to hear these phrases in intimacy just makes me even more anxious and stressed, and of course leads also to the loss of desire on my part. Or it is I who see the anal intercourse as the antechamber of hell, sometimes I even doubt that I am gay for this reason. In any case I cannot bear that the other guy, bisexual, pours on me his straight sexual fantasies as if he were with a woman, I am not a substitute or an imitation of a girl, so I don’t want to be treated as such! In some ways it is as if I felt inferior in bed compared to a bisexual boy: if I think for example of his experience with me, and I think he could have done it with a girl, I feel somewhat less virile. I know that all these thoughts are probably only in my mind and are unfounded, but it is a torment that every time makes itself felt and I cannot get rid of it.
I think I have touched all the points roughly, I conclude by saying that I’m aware that the prejudices that gay and straight people have towards bisexuals inevitably lead them to ghettoise themselves , to create a little space located in the limbo between the two extremes and excluded from both the hemispheres, and this is what led me to write this post. I hope you don’t attack me, but I needed to tell you my experiences to make you understand, and I'm happy to hear from you if it can help me to go beyond my fears and insecurities. 


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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-13-2018, 04:58 PM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies

Hi Project, 

another summer is over, this blessed season in which I love to switch off from everything, especially from most of the technologies that necessarily accompany me throughout the rest of the year. Summer for me means peace, nature, tranquility. I surround myself with the closest friends with whom I share virtually every moment of the day in a sort of regenerating community experience. But now it is September 1, 2015, the summer is over and with the return to the internet I accidentally came across this site. 
How did I? Like many, looking for erotic stories with a gay background, but inevitably I stopped to read many of the interesting articles and contributions of those who follow you. It's just after midnight and having left friends, returning home I decided to write to you for a number of reasons: first of all to express my appreciation for your cultural operation that is clearly distinguished by a certain carnival subculture so popular in the gay world, partly also to share my experience so as to make you participate in my perspective that inevitably distances a lot from yours, while I’m stressing anyway my respect for your conscientious approach to gay issues.
I would begin by talking a little about myself, my life and the evolution of my sexual sphere. My name is Mark, I'm 27, gay for 5 years. Indeed, as ironically I like to think more potential bisexual than gay. I was born in a small village in southern Italy in a large family, surrounded by four sisters of age very close to mine. My family, I would say, is traditionalist but without particular excesses beyond a bit of religious folklore that on the other hand I cannot criticize.
The discovery of the female world takes place about the end of the primary school, perhaps a little earlier. As for erections I distinctly remember having had them even very young, before the age of six to let you understand. But it was some physical reaction that I couldn’t explain. At the end of the primary school instead it became clear, it was the girls who provoked this mysterious phenomenon as I discovered probably watching some ballerina on television. Thus I entered the long period of healthy teenage masturbation. Every occasion was good to give me to the onanism defying any risk of being discovered by parents or sisters. Bath monopolized for hours, wake up at night to watch local TV porn channels and things of this kind. In short, that an adolescent masturbates will also be normal but certainly I had also to take a bit of precautions not to be caught in the act. Meanwhile, slowly some of my friends began to break through the female world. I didn’t consider myself beautiful, seeing now the old photos of that period instead I would say that I was a pretty nice boy. With the girls I could talk, even joke and have fun but ... I wouldn’t even talk about to overcome a certain threshold. I could not really. I was just nice.
And while everyone grows, matures and gets engaged, I until the end of the high school I didn’t realize anything at all. Yet I liked a lot of girls and I think a lot of girls liked me! Patience, my character limits were those and I couldn’t do anything about. I go to university, I transfer to Naples, the big city. I leave the placid village and enter a new dimension. My first years are very good, I dedicate myself body and soul to the study that I’m passionate about, but I can make few friends, mostly male students always horny but always inconclusive. At that time I have some small crush too but nothing goes to port, talk and just talk.
I proceed in my career as a talented wanker thanks to an internet connection that is always faster. I believe that pornography is one of the most underrated themes of recent years. Although I’m neither a psychologist nor a sociologist, I believe that its influence on the construction of the sexual sphere of an entire generation is colossal and monstrous. While really every taboo is overcome by our media society, this reality, which is everyday life for many, we speak very little about and I think even scientific studies don’t care it at all.
But let's get back to me. I don’t know exactly when I started but one fine day towards the end of the university I began to realize that my attention during the porn movies moved from the female figures to the male ones. For a while I began to select videos with more attention to the actors than to the actresses. Soon I switched to bisexual porn and then I joined the gay one. Now, in my head I never had the fantasy of playing the role of women. But I was beginning to feel attracted to male beauty and after the discovery of gay pornography, in which I liked to see the bodies of both guys, I projected my image more on the active partner than on the passive. In short, a substitution of the object of desire was essentially occurring in my head but with a continuity of my role during the sexual act.
I have never given so much importance to the loss of virginity but gradually I was always more eager to have a real sexual experience. But how? One day I decided to contact an ... escort. Because today they are called so. He was a handsome boy, a couple of years younger than me who welcomed me very happy in his apartment and probably used to customers much older and wealthy (as well as repellent), asked me a really ridiculous amount of money, I would say symbolic. It must be said that actually we didn’t do much and I stole him a little time because, as I was presumed, I didn’t want to go all the way. When he started to take the condoms, I stopped him, kissed him and asked to continue our little games, almost foreplay until we both came together. Perhaps I had some scruples of conscience, perhaps fear. I cannot say.
At the end he asked me if we wanted to stay in touch like friends in the future but I told him what I thought, that I liked it but I had discovered this things just recently and I didn’t feel like it. I had just had my first sexual experience and even homosexual. But I still felt something else. He was the exact stereotype of the gay guy you see on TV, I definitely not. Yet I had liked him and also a lot. The first experience somehow went well.
Time passes, even a lot. My pornographic tastes fluctuate while in everyday life I still suffer the great charm of women. For a long time, I don’t know why, but I don’t feel any attraction for the guys I see. Sometimes I dwell on some nice guy, I think it's nice, maybe I'd like to know him maybe kiss him but nothing more. I don’t really drool behind the guys like behind girls. Girls always give me erotic images, of a sexual nature while guys don’t. It's a different thing, with guys it’s still pornography stuff.
Above all my friends, the old and new ones, I see them as friends and that's it. I do not talk to them about my experience or about my new trend, I've never felt the need to tell the truth, perhaps because in any case, my way, I've always been a boy with great respect for everyone's privacy. I don’t like being asked delicate questions and I do consequently with my friends. I appreciate when someone opens with me but for this I don’t think I have the right, even towards a friend, to subject him to an interrogation, even if I see that he is hiding something from me. If my friend hides something from me, he certainly has his reasons, and even more a friend should understand such things. Perhaps I’m strange but I still see things this way. However my life with women, apart from some small parenthesis, remains hanging on a nail. I have short relationships with some girls but at some point I always close.
Once I go to a prostitute, a beautiful girl but ... Some problems during the act. With a girl with whom I had sex months ago all right, with her as beautiful as she is, there is nothing to do, but she is not surprised at all and takes it lightly. However, besides being a bad and sad thing it’s also a luxury that I cannot afford anymore.
Let's say I'm a type, not a cool guy, but a nice guy, even joyful and easy-going, so I have some hope in dating sites. I throw myself on the gay dating sites. In recent years I have had several occasional meetings, always with boys of my age, always protected sex and always with the utmost respect for each other. I have tried as much as possible in such a strange (and insane) situation to keep very strange characters away. I have rarely been more than once with the same boy. This has been my way for a long time to give a purely sexual dimension to these meetings, to build a cage around it to prevent them from ending up in friendship.
Let me be clear, with every boy I meet, I relate from man to man, that is, with the maximum spontaneity and the maximum humanity as it comes naturally to me. Even if it was always about sex and not about love, in the before and after (but also during) I always came ... how to say, spontaneously to share a nice moment and not give life to absurd scenes of porn movies of the fourth category. In fact, at least I have tried sometimes the annoying feeling of being treated not as a person but as a sex toy or something similar. Until this point of love has never been spoken of. 

On closer inspection I have always avoided it perhaps in the consciousness of being in the end a boy endowed with a certain sensitivity and fragility, for which I have always locked me up to protect myself from the danger of feeling love for another boy. A condition badly accepted perhaps more by myself than by the people who love me, thank God they are numerous, and I am sure that they would forgive me this stupid fault that is not to blame. After all, as I said at the beginning, I always have the impression of being a frustrated homosexual and a potential bisexual, simply unable to relate to people. Thinking about it, too often I find myself taking a crush indistinctly both for boys and girls.
The quality that I value most in a person is simplicity that is expressed with a sincere laugh and a calm heart. In fact, probably having gained my sexual experiences with guys through occasional meetings with people who often only seek sex, has reinforced in me the idea that it is possible to really build a relationship only with girls. A stupidly romantic idea and evidently deformed from my perspective.
This is what I think I understood by browsing the pages of your blog: there are gays that are normal. It seems stupid to say so but I realize that probably if I had started my sexual adventures on dating sites for hetero people I would have made an equally negative idea of women, but in this case I would have been wrong.
So thanks, Project, and good work.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-13-2018, 01:04 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies

When I was a child, I believed in fairy tales, I believed that in order to obtain anything it was enough to want it deeply, as I grew up I learned on my skin that fairy tales are a way to prevent a child from too traumatic contact with reality. When I was a child, I was not a little charming prince and perhaps I looked more like a frog than a prince, but a chubby frog, because I was like that! I struggled to accept myself, but not as a gay (what came later and was not a problem at all) but as a fat boy. Now I see the photos of when I was a child: just a lard ball inexorably attracted to cakes and snacks of all kinds. 

Of the period before adolescence I remember especially the talks with the psychologist and the dietician, the terror of when they took my blood for the analysis and the obsession of the scale, I didn’t understand why my mother considered it something so fundamental. I didn’t give a damn about being fat and I didn’t understand why the others were so worried. I hated my mother when she hid me things to eat, spied on me and locked the fridge. In primary school, in a school of nuns, the comrades were polite and nobody was making fun of me and so being fat didn’t really give me any problem. 

The trouble started in the sixth grade. As soon as I entered the school, they gave me the first nickname: Ciccio! [something like “fatty”] At first I didn’t understand why, then I slowly understood. The school environment was bad. The teachers struggled a lot to be respected, we teased them and laughed like crazy and they tried to keep us as good as they could, the math teacher threatened to load us with homework, the Italian teacher to make us do long summaries. We had a young lady as a Gymnastics teacher, who showed us how to do the exercises first, she was very good at doing exercises, but we were not good at doing anything! 

At the first gym classes I felt myself marginalized for the first time. In primary school we didn’t do Gymnastics at all, but from the sixth grade the teacher didn’t let us play and didn’t allow us to waste time and the gym class started with a run that never ended. The teacher made me do only two laps, while the others kept running, I and another boy had to stretch while lying on the ground and the other boy was also chubby, not just like me but almost. The teacher didn’t make us tired, then I realized that since I was too fat I could have problems and she was careful. When my parents went to the interview with the teachers they asked if they would do better to ask for the exemption and the teacher said that asking for exemption would certainly be a mistake and that I would have to attend a gym regularly. 

In the first week of the sixth grade I had learned a very long series of bad words of which I didn’t even know the meaning. In practice in a very short time the mockery of the companions, but also the pushes and the blows, focused on two kids, one was me: "Ciccio" and then there was "Recchia" [derived from the Italian dialect word "Ricchione" or "Recchione" used vulgarly as a synonym of homosexual], a slim and blond boy who was systematically placed in the middle and beaten up. I didn’t understand why they called him Recchia and I thought it was because he had big ears (in Italian "orecchie"), but in reality they were not big, it took me a couple of years to get to understand the real why. 

In the seventh grade my classmates, or at least some of them, must have begun to understand something more about sex, the fact is that, even if I didn’t understand why, they hugged Recchia from behind and held him tight and Recchia tried to wriggle to run away, if he could not, he reacted screaming and sometimes he would start crying, and then they mocked him heavily, they demanded that he sit down on the legs of the other companions and someone tried to put hands in the middle of his legs, it is at this point that I began to have a first vague idea of what sexuality was. 

Recchia made me tenderness, I never made stupid jokes against him to put him in trouble and if I saw someone who tried to mock him I defended him and the others stayed calm, because I was much bigger than them. In the middle of seventh grade, Recchia changed school (then I realized that he couldn’t stand bullying of my classmates) but we continued to meet at least once a week, I was fine with him, he never mocked me and when I went to his house, his parents always prepared for me something to eat: pizza or sweets. 

When I was in eighth grade, Recchia started to become a really nice boy and I started to fantasize about him, I liked him very much and practically I started to masturbate always thinking of Paul, that's his name. I imagined that he was gay and that he was in love with me, very unlikely because he was handsome while I was still fat, I had grown tall but I was still very heavy. We did the eighth grade examinations in two different schools and then we met together in the ninth grade, starting scientific high school. He told me he would attend the classic high school but then I found him in my class, I don’t know if it happened by chance (I don’t think so), but it happened like that. 

We started to study together, the thing worked and then I did everything not to lose ground because spending all afternoons with Paul was like being in heaven. The school was difficult and we studied a lot but we didn’t get scared. One day one of our female friends comes to me and tells me that Paul told her that I’m a special boy, I like it very much. We arrive in the 11th grade, Paul is now the idol of the girls and also of the teachers and I feel proud that he considers me a friend. Obviously he is the center of all my sexual interests, but it seems to me not only too good for me but too interested in girls, however we continue to study together. 

When we are almost at the end of the annual school trip we end up in the same hotel room, we talk all night long, even about sex, and he tells me about a girl that he likes very much, I listen and try to answer as I can, then he asks me about me and since I really trust him I tell him that I think I'm gay but not only, I also tell him that I'm in love with him, he looks at me puzzled, then he sends out loud all the breath he has in the lungs and tells me: "Oh well, it happens! I'm sorry that I cannot match you because for me there are only girls, if ever I fall in love with a boy, that one would be you! I know it's a small consolation . . . All the same as before?" I reply: "Sure!" And actually nothing changed between us, or better our relationship has improved, I felt free and happy to have a friend like Paul. 

Then in the middle of the 13th grade I made my metamorphosis and from the fatty boy I was I become a butterfly, I lost many kilos and according to what they tell me, I became a handsome boy, I would have hoped that the boys would follow me and instead only girls were following me. I often consulted with Paul on how to keep girls at a distance because he too had the same problem even if the situation was completely different. 

After graduation Paul went to study in another city and in practice we lost almost all contacts. I enrolled in engineering, dreaming of being able to meet another Paul, but this time gay, and to finally be able to live a love affair with him. For me Paul was a very important person at all levels, he was not gay, ok, but we were friends in the true sense of the word, he basically knew everything about me and nothing had changed and then he didn’t talk about me to anyone. Let's say that I was badly accustomed to him, not only, but I had in mind the myth of the gay who is always good, respects his neighbor and seeks a serious emotional life. 

In the faculty we are few, there is a fair percentage of girls, so the number of guys is quite low, I would say about twenty, there are me, gay, some others there should be but everyone keeps well perched in his privacy, except for heterosexuals, but they must think above all to study more than to stay with the girls. In short, I look around but there is not even the shadow of a gay. I make friends with a guy in my class, I immediately state that he had nothing to do with Paul, he was a not bad boy, but for me he had never been an object I don’t say of erotic fantasies but not even of curiosity. I had not tried to get news about him like I did on another couple of my colleagues, just because I was not interested in him. 

The friendship between us is born by chance and I think that he too cared little about me, he could serve to study together, but he was not even a big deal from that point of view. I don’t give importance to the thing, in the periods before the exemptions [tests carried out periodically during the course, which, if passed with good grades allow to be exempt from the final written test.] we study together a few nights. Seen up close he is not bad and I tell myself that since certainly I’ll never find another Paul, it is worth while accepting what the convent passes, between us there is a little more confidence and he starts talking about girls, tells me that he has a girlfriend but that "it’s not enough" that he also needs "other". 

I ask him if he is in love with his girl and tells me yes, the speech goes on and after a long pull and spring he tells me that he’s bisexual, I, given my total inexperience, put in my head a wrong equation: "bisexual = gay" and I'm still a bit bad: I had found one that would have been there but it was not like Paul . . . I said to myself, "Did this guy really have to be gay?" (gay or bisexual it was basically the same for me) And I went on to assume that his world was exactly like mine. I didn’t know what to do, saying: "I'm gay" would have been perhaps the right thing to do but, frankly, I didn’t trust him too much and then I was also afraid he could take the lead of staying with me, what I was not at all convinced of wanting, I believe no more than yes. 

I continued to be a straight friend, but evidently he had a long eye and aimed far away, where I didn’t think he was coming. He introduced me to his girl, what I would never have expected, and made sure that we three would meet many times. I said to myself: "If you want to go out with me, ok, but what about the girl? Don’t meddle me with things I have nothing to do with!" But there was a flaw in my reasoning, I had slowly begun to assume that he understood how things were, even though I had never admitted anything. I said to myself: "If he is not an idiot he understood!" 

At a certain point I realized that the girl was beginning to consider me a confidant. She phoned me to tell me about his business and in practice to make me understand that she had problems with her boyfriend because she thought the boy was gay. I asked her what she deduced it from and she told me that the boy was never there on Wednesdays, I, perhaps naively, told her that on Wednesdays he never came to classes and she grimaced as if to say that she expected it, then asked me if I knew anything and I found myself in a terrible embarrassment, because I knew but I couldn’t tell her anything so I had to lie, but I didn’t like it at all. In short, I became the confidant of the girl, who called me almost every day and on Wednesday came to the university canteen to have lunch with me. 

I finally had to tell the guy how things were and he confessed to me that things were no longer going well with the girl and that maybe he was not really bisexual but gay and that he didn’t feel like going along with the girl. In short, after a few days, a Tuesday night he tells me that he left the girl because it is not something for him, on Wednesday at the table I see the girl who confirms the fact but the time is very short and we decide to meet again in the evening. We go to the pizzeria, then in the car she unleashes herself with me and starts crying and tells me a sentence that puts me in alarm: "I cannot stand any more gays! I need a real man, I'm just fine with you!" I said to myself: "Oh my God! But look what a rascal! He cut the rope and dumped the girl!" I had to appeal to all my creative spirit to explain to the girl that I was already busy and that my girlfriend calls me every night on skype. She was very bad, though obviously she couldn’t take it out on me. 

When I saw him the next day at the university, I asked him where he was going on Wednesday, because I thought he had found a guy, and he told me: "I see another girl!" I told him: "Girl? But didn’t you feel gay?" And he replied: "Not exactly 100% gay". In the evening I called Paul and I told him the whole story and he told me that he had been courting a girl for months but that she kept him at a distance, then a female friend of the girl told him that the girl didn’t want him because she thought he was gay! Paul gay? Only one who does not reason at all can think of such a thing. Then Paul told me laughing: "I think it would be better if we put together!" And it all ended with this joke: Paul!!! But why are the beautiful and intelligent guys always straight?!

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-12-2018, 07:40 PM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies

Below you can read the online interview of a 36-year-old guy who lives an important hetero relationship and has had experiences with both boys and girls but considers himself a gay in the impossibility of being gay, who also lives an authentic hetero life but not entirely satisfactory.
1) My age
I'm 36 years old
2) My sexual orientation and its evolution
I had both (sexual and amorous) relationships with both women and men. I am currently with a woman for a few years now. But I am certainly physically attracted to men. So I think I'm gay. Yet even sex with women has always been good, always sought and felt satisfying, but not entirely, in the sense that the attraction for my own sex has never been eliminated. My longest and most important stories have been hetero, but I have always felt the need for erotic fantasies and sex with boys, perhaps because sex with women has never failed me, as it happened to me for long periods with boys.
3) When and how I realized I was gay
I always knew that I was physically attracted to the boys. Maybe when I was 13-14 years old I still didn’t understand if it was curiosity, or I was gay or bisexual, since I also liked going with girls (but I don’t understand this even now). But I think that if being gay means experience sexual attraction for people of the same sex, then I've always known I was gay since I remember.
4) When and how I accepted to be gay
When I met a guy I fell badly in love with. I realized that it couldn’t remain a hidden attraction, an erotic fantasy or a fleeting escapade, I needed that boy to feel myself realized with him. I would have accepted my homosexuality and I would have made sure that others would accept it if the story could have progressed. He was my best friend (so I thought at the beginning). But he accepted his homosexuality even less than how I accepted mine, practically he didn’t accept himself at all as a gay, so after some shy sexual contact between us, at first a bit for fun, then in a painful pull and spring, he wanted to deny everything and reaffirm his heterosexuality. He didn’t even talk with me again, perhaps out of fear that I would let this story, lived in the shadows, could come out. Yet it was a relationship that has tied us for about two years.
5) The difficulties I have encountered in accepting my gay identity
Not having an absolute sexual tendency (neither gay nor heterosexual) has pushed me not to live my being in the light of the sun, in relationships with others. I never seriously thought about coming out, a little out of fear - as everyone, I think - but a little because I've never thought to give up a part of me, one of my sexual components (I had and I have important hetero stories). For myself, I accepted myself well enough without excessive conflict. Outside, with others it's another thing.
6) The situations of hardship that I have faced and that I have to face as a gay
The greatest difficulties and sufferings I experience are related to the fact that I live my being gay in the shadows, opening myself only with a few boys and fearing that someone may come to know.
7) Who knows about me
The boy of my second gay story of true falling in love (and little sex), with which, however, I don’t talk anymore, a few gay friends (with whom, however, there has always been a shallow friendship, with almost all of them I have had sex, almost all adventures that lasted a little without too much involvement).
8) The relationship with my parents
Good. I have not lived with them for a long time. They never suspected anything.
9) My relationship with my friends
Good. I tend to have few real friends, but I care a lot about them, and I attach great importance to the consideration they have of me.
10) Where do my knowledge of gay reality come from?
They come more than anything from the comparison of my experiences with those of other boys I know who live in my same situation. Too little anyway (compared to what I would like) from the direct conversation with gay guys, much more via internet sites like this.
11) My relationship with my nakedness and that of others
I have no problem showing me naked or being with other naked boys or girls.
12) My relationship with masturbation
I live it well. I consider it a healthy and normal satisfaction of our desire. Certainly it comes to the background compared to couple relationships (in the sense that I feel marginally the need  for masturbation when the sexual couple sexual intercourses are not scarce). But having predominantly heterosexual relationships, while masturbate,  homosexual erotic fantasies emerge in an exclusive way.
13) My relationship with pornography
Moderate. Also this can attract me more in periods of prolonged abstention from homosexual intercourses, similarly to the previous point.
14) My relationship with meeting sites and erotic chats
Sometimes I tried to meet on the internet. Few times with satisfactory outcome. Driven by the desire to meet people like me with whom to make friends (or maybe even just sex? ) without being exposed in places in which I could risk being known. The erotic chats, on the other hand, don’t attract me at all.
15) How I tried to realize my affectivity / sexuality
As for the realization of affectivity, I think I have had several significant stories. I think the most significant ones were with two boys and two girls; the last one is with the woman with whom I live, which emotionally allowed me to realize myself fully and that is the person I love most. The two boys I fell in love with in the past have made me live two stories equally affectively important in which, however, there was no satisfactory sexuality (with the first almost nothing) most likely for their difficulty to accept themselves for what they were and for the will to self-impose a straight life. I do not know if I feel very accomplished sexually. Homo sexual relations attract me and I miss them, but they can only be clandestine betrayals of the person I love, with a consequent sense of guilt towards her and terror of being discovered. On the other hand, for me affectivity and sexuality have never been coincident, but the rest of the world does not seem to think so. Patience!
16) My relationship with girls
Great. I can make good friends with the girls.
17) My relationship with straight guys
Great. I would like more time to spend with friends.
18) My relationship with gay guys
Repressed. In the sense that I have some gay friends and I have no problem attending them. But with those of my circle I can not declare myself gay and so the relationship remains much more superficial or distorted than I would like. With those I have known outside my circle of straight friends, with whom I can be open, the relationships are more sparse and therefore also unsatisfactory compared to what I would like.
19) What strikes me most in a guy
In addition to the physical appearance? Spontaneity and ease and freedom from any taboo or social convention on sex, nudity, etc. I would say the serenity and naturalness with which he addresses his own drives and relates to those of others.
20) My previous affective life
Always messed up: between falling in love with girls and falling in love with boys, the latter without being able to have full sexual satisfaction. And on the other hand, various sex stories without any emotional implication with girls and boys. I feel a constant tension due to the fact that I cannot fully and exclusively dedicate myself to heterosexual relationships nor to gay relationships, and therefore I live never making a choice here or there, having never been fully satisfied neither from one side or the other.
21) My current affective situation
It's been a while since I have a female partner who emotionally gives me everything I need. Sex also works well between us. I no longer fell in love with guys, although I almost constantly feel the lack of sexual relationships with other guys, in terms of pure erotic desire, while in the past there may have been a real love. Sometimes I wonder if I would miss sexual relations with women if I had a stable relationship with a boy. I don’t know .. But I know that with no boy I managed to combine sex and affectivity as with the girl I'm with. It makes me think that I'm fine, even if I miss something. You cannot have everything, life is made of compromises, and so on ...
22) My degree of emotional satisfaction
The story that I am living with my partner satisfies me emotionally, even if the phase of falling in love is now over. Sometimes I wonder if in a relationship between boys there could be a greater understanding or a greater complicity (so it seemed to me in my previous experiences). But maybe it's not like that; these are probably things that vary from person to person more than on the basis of being male or female.
23) My degree of sexual satisfaction
Needless to deny it, physically I miss gay sex, I feel the need and I find the way to satisfy it too rarely and clandestinely with occasional relationships often unsatisfactory because of the absence of the affective side.
24) The weight of sex in my affective world
Enough. But I feel the two things like on two different levels. When the two things touch each other in a single person, we can be happy with it, however the two levels are able to meet each other. But it is not common.
25) What I would like from my boyfriend
To be able to accept each other for what we are, to be able to tell everything with naturalness and sincerity, to be able to do everything we like not caring about what people think.
26) What I think I can give to my boyfriend
If you love someone you give him everything you can if he wants it. The most precious thing would be sincerity, but it is necessary that your partner wants it and can accept it. But I don’t feel my current relationship this way: could she believe in our relationship if I told her that I miss sexual relationships with men?
27) My desires in relation to my emotional / sexual life
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a friend in my same situation, to be able to have a gratifying sexual relationship without being afraid of being discovered or losing my female partner. So I could satisfy both my sexual / affective impulses. A bit like in "The ignorant fairies" ...
28) My frustrations in relation to my emotional / sexual life
The need to give up on homosexual relationships a bit out of respect for my female partner and a little for fear of being discovered by her. Having unsatisfactory or non-serene homosexual relationships because they are carried out in a clandestine manner with occasional and limping relationships on the affective side.
29) What I would like to know about the emotional / sexual life of other gay guys
I would like to know their life better (every life is a universe in itself), I miss it and I have always lacked the sharing of experiences with other gay guys.
30) How I consider myself informed about sexual behavior at risk
I know what there is to know about safe sex.

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