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A GUY MEETS HIS FORMER BO...
Forum: Gay couples
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END OF A GAY COUPLE
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GAY DREAMS AND REAL LIFE
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GAY LOVE AS AN ANTIDOTE T...
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IMPORTANT NOTICE
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GAY SEX AND DEPRESSION
Forum: Gay discomfort
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COOLING OF A GAY COUPLE A...
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GAY SEX AND AFFECTIVE INV...
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GAYS BETWEEN DREAM AND RE...
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| LOVE IN A NON-STANDARD GAY COUPLE |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-03-2019, 12:30 PM - Forum: Gay couples
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Hi Project,
I read so many posts on the forum, especially the last ones, and in reading them I had the impression of finding in many guys a kind of resignation in accepting everything from the other (your partner or something more or less similar), something that often happened to me too and that, I must say, has led me to many disappointments.
I told myself that being gay is already a complicated and problematic thing, but being a gay like me, who in the end always adapts to the desires and needs of the partner, means to shoot oneself in the foot. I felt united to all those guys "no more boys and not yet men" who run after a beautiful and impossible companion because to put us in the same category there was the fact of being unlucky in the same way, and unlucky means without a pussy, and this says a lot.
[The original post is in Italian, in Italian “unlucky” sounds normally “sfortunato” but there is another word, very commonly used to express a quite similar meaning and this word is “sfigato” literally “a guy who as no pussy to play with”. In Italian “pussy” sounds “figa”. ]
But now, Project, I'm writing to you for another reason, I no longer feel like a weak person or a fool who accepts everything from his partner because he is unable to rebel! I no longer feel like a victim but not because I rebelled and changed my behavior, but because I realized that I was never a victim.
Things are not at all like I had begun to see them in recent times: I love him! I have loved him for years, we have been fighting and making peace for years but we are always here. Today my ... I don't even know how to call him, well, I'll call him Puppy, my Puppy called me on the phone and we spent a lot of time talking, he told me about his boys (yes, it seems paradoxical but it's true!), about his doubts, his fears and a thousand other things, then we disconnected because it was too late and after a few minutes he sent me a text message: "I love you!"
I can tell you, Project, that I felt in seventh heaven, I don't care that he’s no more my boyfriend, because after all he never was my boyfriend even when we were together, for me it's enough that he loves me as he always did. If I continued to believe in him it is not because I was a weak guy or a loser who didn’t know where to head and somehow had to delude himself but because I loved him and I knew that he loved me too.
I have always known that he loved me, one can tell me: "but it is ONLY a friend!". ONLY? But such a friend, a true friend like this is one who really loves you! I cannot say that we have been together for 14 years, because it wouldn’t be true, but we have loved each other for 14 years and this is very true. We know each other thoroughly and the contact between us has never been lost.
I'm not in love with the Moon, Project, but with a real guy who has so many flaws but he loves me like no one ever did. And I fell in love with him not because I didn't see his faults but because I felt he really loved me in his own way. I don't want a perfect boy, I want him, or rather I want him to be happy. Today he told me: "Many run after me but then nobody wants me as I am, they all tend to be possessive, you don't, with you I can afford to be what I am."
With him, in other times, I lived a couple's life, then that phase was over but the loving has not passed, and I was so afraid that it would pass, but it did not pass! Project, you may find it absurd, but I feel like a happy man! I’m not alone, I know that he is there, with all the load of contradictions and melancholy that he carries with him, but he really exists. Maybe I see him more like the brother I never had than as a couple partner.
Actually, as he says, I'm not possessive but it's something that comes naturally to me, I don't feel like a renouncer or a weak screwed by a partner who takes advantage of the situation: none of this, Project, I feel happy! Many guys would consider what I wrote to be pathological, yet it's all true and my happiness is true too. I would be upset if I lost him, if he forgot about me, I would be terribly ill if he judged me badly, but I feel him close even after 14 years so as I've never felt anyone else.
From the outside it seems that in my story there is no reciprocity because we no longer have sex together, but nevertheless there is a deep reciprocity and it has happened to me many times to feel important and even irreplaceable for him. Sometimes when he calls me he is anxious, then slowly he calms down and starts to joke a little, well, those are really wonderful moments!
Over the years I have also learned many things about couple life and about myself. With him I found a balance and an affectionate reciprocity (without exaggeration and without too many words), which I never found with anyone else. Today I feel really happy!
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| GAY COUPLES IN FRONT OF THE MOST DIFFICULT TRIALS |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 08-23-2019, 12:13 AM - Forum: Gay couples
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Here is an email I received a few days ago and it struck me a lot. I asked the author to modify the text just a little to guarantee the protection of the privacy of the protagonists, while leaving intact the meaning of the story. This is the final text for publication. I thank Luca for having shared such a shocking experience and I’m sure that this text will help many people to have a more mature attitude towards life.
"Hello Project,
My name is Luca and I’m 42. I recently read the post "a gay couple in a terrible ordeal" and it deeply moved me, also because unfortunately I didn’t receive the same solidarity ...
Towards the end of last year, I was diagnosed with a serious neurological illness and my immature ex, after more than three years of our story, left me and as a justification he adduced very artificial excuses.
I’m not writing to ask for advice or to be consoled, but perhaps because a part of me hopes that by putting my story in black and white, I can stop thinking about it and feel bad, as if I were moving away from it, as if I dismissed it.
I have already talked about my love affair with a gay friend and some other good friends, but perhaps it is easier for me to write to a benevolent stranger, such as you are, to get rid of this burden, because your possible negative judgment I think would not touch me too much.
I met Alberto in 2015. Our story was born at the beginning simply by physical attraction, but I was immediately struck by his sweetness and vulnerability.
Although he was a few years older than me, he gave me the impression of a little lost boy.
He told me with much hesitation and shyness that he still lived with his family, that he had never had a boyfriend, only stories lasting no more than a month, and that he had always been dumped.
The last man he had trusted in had told him that he didn't think he could keep up with the pace of a story.
I asked him why he had not looked for more serious stories and he replied that he liked sex and that he had only recently been looking for something more.
There were all the alarm bells pushing me to get away with no delay, instead I remember that I hugged him for a long time, I held him close to me and told him that in my opinion the others hadn’t understood anything and that I wanted to continue to see him, because he was a rough diamond that just waited to be discovered by someone who knew how to enhance it.
And I added that, if it was for me, I would have gathered all the troubled and problematic guys to fill them with affection.
In fact, I perfectly was able to understand what it was like to feel alone, without ever having someone special to love and to be loved by, because for many years I had experienced the same sensations before living serious stories.
I still remember the sense of loneliness that has always assaulted me when I was in the midst of the "normal" guys, when I walked down the street in the crowd of my small provincial town and it seemed to me to be the only gay guy existing, an invisible pariah.
Slowly I managed to get him out of the dynamic of seeing us only for sex and we began to know each other better and he opened up a lot with me.
We overcame many impasses together, mainly due to his inexperience.
After a few months of dating, however, I received a bad cold rain: one afternoon, without warning, he told me out of the blue that he was not convinced to continue, because he didn’t understand where the experience with me could take him.
I was so upset and angry that I burst into tears and literally ran away, with the intention of never seeing him again, so I felt disappointed that I had wasted my time with a total immature.
He did everything he could to regain my trust and obviously I gave up, because I was madly in love with him.
I explained to him that obviously the goals of a gay couple could not be those of a straight couple, that we would certainly not have had children and that on the other hand I had never considered cohabitation, because due to my family and work situation I couldn't choose cohabitation nor be a declared gay.
However, I added that in my opinion the fact of learning to love each other and doing many things together, such as travel, would have been more than important and satisfying.
After that episode, our relationship became much stronger, although of course - as in all couples - there were lights and shadows.
I would indeed have wished that we could spent more time together with him, also because we didn’t live at a great distance from each other and, since I lived alone, my house was always free.
I understood that he needed to rest and to have his spaces, but I wanted more opportunities to be with him.
We used to see each other only an hour after work during the week and only on Saturday afternoon.
Then there were also some weekends together and holidays (but only for a week, because due to his work he couldn't do more!)
I remember once he told me all excited that on the radio he had heard of the "unpaired" guys and that he considered himself this way, that is to say as a person who loved couple life, but felt also very well when he was alone.
A friend of mine in hindsight told me that Alberto probably had "a double life", but I didn't want to believe it.
Unfortunately a constant in our relationship was from the beginning that I always had to make the first move to kiss him, to caress him with a gesture of tenderness, to make love.
I was always the one who was the first to tell him that I loved him, that he was beautiful, and he only used to echo: "me too, me too".
When I asked him why he behaved so, his answer was "I don't know", although he once told me that I wasn't his type physically.
Then I was always the one who organized our activities, who found things to do together, ideas for the holidays ... sometimes it seemed to me that I was more like a tourist entertainer than his boyfriend.
I would have liked so much for him to go out with my friends, but he said that with too many unknown people he wouldn't feel comfortable, although I told him that my friends knew about me and we wouldn't have any problems.
In our life as a couple there were also misunderstandings and difficulties, but in three years they were never so explosive as to lead us to write the final word.
And on the other hand, Alberto never showed me reasons for discontent, on the contrary he often told me that being with me had made him a better person.
Many times he also wanted to say the fateful phrase "I love you", but I used to block him by telling him that love is a very, very big thing, that to be such it had to go through many trials. I really used to think of love according to the formula "In wealth and poverty, in health and disease" etc. etc..
Without knowing it, I had been prophetic!
Then came the diagnosis of my illness and, as you can imagine, the world literally collapsed on me.
From that moment I began to feel like I was already dead and to break away from of all the things that had been important in my life until then.
Unfortunately Alberto was not able to stay close to me and I realized that consciously and unconsciously I made it difficult for him to stay close to me and that I pushed him away.
I gradually worsened from a physical point of view and all the while I kept asking him if he really felt like staying close to me and if he really wanted to witness my physical decline.
I was the first to let him understand what the difficulties of staying with me would have been, I never hid my conditions, my uncertainties about our future, my unease.
I wanted him to be with me, but I also felt selfish and inadequate because I knew we could no longer do the things we did together and that had made our relationship so beautiful and carefree until then.
His response to my solicitations was invariably: "let's see how it goes", while I would have liked to be told "I'll always be by your side" or at least I wanted him to change his availability of time and attention towards me.
Did I asked him for too much? Should I have made explicit what I wanted to hear? I believe that in his place I would have done everything to make him feel good. Of course, you could argue that I hadn't chosen a mature person as a boyfriend, so why should I have expected maturity?
As a provocation I told him - and I realize now that it was a cruel childishness - how he expected the new boyfriend to be.
Then one night I fell in the street and my life got worse a lot.
If until that moment I had succeeded, even if with difficulty, in walking and driving and living in my own house, after the fall I had to go home to my parents with all the problems related to having to return to live with elderly parents and to depend on them (thank goodness I have never come out to my family in all these years!).
For the entire period of my convalescence we felt by telephone, but you know how they say "out of sight, out of mind" ... He came to see me at my parents' house only once.
Obviously there was no talk of vacations together, nor of other entertainment together.
Then when I was better he came sometimes to pick me up at my parents' house and we went to my house, always and only on Saturday afternoon.
We used to make love, to pamper ourselves, but you can understand that an atmosphere of sadness and uncertainty hung on our story.
I was no longer the same cheerful and engaging boyfriend as before, how could I have been?
I often asked him what he thought and what he felt and he said to me: "nothing", but I saw him a little absent, nevertheless in the messages we exchanged he wrote that it was always nice to be with me.
As always, in our relationship, it was I the one who had to find the courage to arrive at a clarification and a solution, because if it had depended on him we would have gone ahead with this ambiguity for who knows how long.
Up to 15 days before the end of our story he came to bed with me and up to 9 days ago he called me "love, angel, darling".
I think I wouldn't be so angry with him if he was more sincere: can I understand that he was afraid of my reaction, but hiding the truth didn't it cause both of us more suffering?
So I wanted a direct clarification and when we met, barely looking at my face, he told me that he had thought about it and that he thought it made no more sense to move forward because the circumstances had changed, above all my attitude towards him had changed.
He also added that he wanted to leave me not because of my illness, but because he knew that whatever he said or did would end up disappointing me, displeasing me, making me feel bad. According to him for the entire duration of our relationship we have always tried to do the best thing for each other without knowing what it really was and in any case for him it was impossible to be with a man who wanted him and at the same time didn't want him. Besides he couldn't understand what was going through my head if I didn't tell him.
I replied that I was very amazed, because due to my habit of telling always the truth, all my life, people have always told me that I’m an open book, that people immediately understand what I think and what I feel and, according to me, it was he who never answered with sincerity when I asked him how he felt and what he thought.
Then he turned the omelet again, saying that we both didn’t communicate openly for fear of hurting each other.
I spare you all the accusations and counter-accusations of that painful afternoon, I only tell you that at the end of our "clarification" he proposed me to stay friends, as if we could wipe out everything that had existed between us, assuming that simple friendship was enough for me.
I explained to him that maybe I was just a friend to him, but for me he would never have been just that. I still felt strong feelings for him despite everything and I told him that I was truly sorry that for him it was so easy to slip into a relationship of mere friendship, also because this probably meant that in three years he had not shared my own feelings.
He had abandoned me as a boyfriend, how could I trust him as a friend? I don't think I could have endured any further disappointment and in any case the wound was too recent.
In the days following the end of our story, obviously I felt really in pieces, but I began to resign myself to the idea that I would never see or hear Alberto again.
Instead, surprisingly, he started sending me messages to ask me how I was.
They were so-called "neutral" messages, in which he did not lean on feelings he was really feeling.
At first Alberto had a nostalgic and regretful tone, he told me that he had reviewed our photos together and that he felt guilty, without explicitly telling me he wanted to come back with me.
Mostly he used to tell me in general that he wished I was fine, which used to make me angry because instead I felt badly and he wished me "happy birthday", a rather unhappy expression, which is mostly used with terminally ill or toothless old aunts.
I understand now that maybe it was his way to make me feel his closeness, to somehow save our relationship.
The fact is, however, that for me to hear it was very painful, it was hurting to feel treated with cold courtesy.
For me to hear him it was a continuous reopening of the wound of our separation, a constant reminder that my past as a healthy and happy man would never come back, that he would never be my boyfriend again.
Moreover it served only to place me in front of the sad reality that in my future I will be destined to the sentimental solitude.
No one likes to get in couple with a chronic patient. The truth is that I will no longer have caresses, hugs, kisses from a person who considers me special and who thinks of me as something more than a friend.
I explicitly asked him not to contact me anymore and so far, to my great relief, he has not made himself heard.
What to say? I do not regret having loved him with all of myself and I will never stop loving him, I really think I love Alberto, even though he hurt me deeply and I have definitely removed him from me.
His escape is a typical reaction of a human being frightened, partly understandable and justifiable and certainly suffered and problematic.
However, I still feel a lot of resentment towards him, above all because he never wanted to admit to having left me because of my illness and also because in other respects I felt deceived and in a sense "used".
I realized that it was probably an experiment for him that lasted three years, and then I realized also that in a couple the unsaid and personal interpretations are more important than what is said and lived together ... unfortunately all that I learned I will carry it into my grave.
Illness allowed me to discern clearly who loves me and who doesn’t and I must admit with bitterness that the man on whom I poured so much tenderness and in whom I placed so much trust perhaps never really loved me."
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| DETOXIFICATION OF A 32-YEAR-OLD GAY GUY |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 08-16-2019, 07:53 PM - Forum: Gay orientation
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Hello Project,
I'm 32 years old, and I think I've finished the so-called "most beautiful period of my life", assuming there was ever something like that in my life. I look at the young boys, the twenty-year-olds, they are young, they are beautiful, they are full of wishes and hope, but I watch them from afar, they believe that sex can change their lives but I have already overcome this stage, I have had my experiences and in the end there is nothing left. I have been hunting guys on dating sites, I met a lot of them, I had sex with so many of them (prudently, that is, without putting myself at risk) and I came to the conclusion that it is good to think of something else.
With a couple of guys I even deluded myself, it lasted a few months, but then it all ended according to the general rule: better alone than badly accompanied! Every guy has his dreams, his ghosts, his pathologies, more or less evident, every guy follows his fantasy and the idea of building something together doesn't exist at all.
Project, I don't accuse others of doing so, because I'm the first who follows those rules, I'm the first one who isn’t so inclined to share his life. Going to bed with a guy, ok, some sex doesn't hurt anyone, but then bye! I go back to my house, I don't want to share anything with anyone. I should be happy to wake up in the morning near a stranger I know nothing about. Ok, we may have had sex together, but that doesn't mean anything. What do I have to share with that guy? Our stories had nothing in common for thirty years, then we spent a few hours together and this should have changed our lives?
Project, I can also understand and accept that you don't share my way of thinking, that you consider it stupid, but which would be the alternative? What should I believe in? The world of fairy tales no longer interests me, it is a bit like I had become indifferent to sex. I don't know how long it will last but for the moment I want to be alone, I want to sleep a lot, I don't want to think, I don't want to chase unlikely dreams.
Project, I didn't have bad experiences, I didn't find guys who betrayed me or things like that, maybe I could change my mind, if I found (but I won't look for it) a guy with whom there is another level of communication, then, maybe, I could change my mind, but I've been waiting for the Charming Prince for more than ten years now, and I'm tired of waiting.
There are so many better things to do! As you say, I could devote myself to the "others" in a generic sense, depersonalizing relationships, going out of the obsession that pushes me to know gay guys with the prospect of creating with them who knows what.
I also have longstanding straight friends, but I neglected them a lot, and what for? I neglected them to run after gay guys, wasting a lot of time without any result either for them or for me. With my family I broke off relationships years ago, since I became economically independent I left home ... and what should I do? Should I go back to my parents' house, even if they think I went to live alone to live with a girl? Because this is the level of communication that there is with my parents!
I left to try to be free to build my own life, I mean a couple life, but then what did I build? I became addicted to pornography for years, I had a bit of sex, which is nice only before, because afterwards it leaves you nothing! This was the meaning of my youth. Certainly there have been my studies, then my work, which is a concern but it is not really the obsession of my life, that is, it gives me something, at least economic independence.
By now the guys I have known I don't even remember them distinctly, sometimes I confuse the story of one with that of another, they are "my ex-boys" but I consider them not as singles but as a group, for me they don't have a personality anymore and I think they hardly remember me, but it's not a big problem!
What is the use of living, Project? There is really no purpose. It's a trivial thing. We are used to believing that we are special, that we have a profound meaning for others and for the world and instead we are nothing, just a little dust that will be swept away by the wind. Those who dedicate themselves to others probably don't get anything, except in terms of self-esteem, but they certainly don't lose anything, this is a great push towards love of neighbor!
I imagine what effect the reading of this mail can have in you. You'll think that I'm depressed, inclined to renounce, disgusted by the world and by my fellow men, but it is not so, I want to look at other things, my life has been dominated for at least 15 years by the word gay, but this is not the only word in the vocabulary. I'm gay, but my being gay mustn't become an obsession, I mustn't find myself a partner at any cost and certainly he cannot be the first guy I meet in the street, I don't seek any husband, I don't deny anything and don't reject anything a priori but I'm tired of chasing fantasies and thinking of having to settle for a bit of sex and with the risk of ruining my health.
I have never found a guy who loved me and on the other hand I have never been able to really love a guy, selfishness has always been the dominant value and this is not how married life should work.
You talked to me about "light couples", that is without too many expectations and without too many obligations, but it’s not a thing for me, I need, or better, I absolutely need stability. Perhaps I have assimilated a model of a couple of almost matrimonial type or perhaps I'm not yet mature enough for a true couple life, that is for a couple life in which compromise and the search for quiet life dominate.
I wouldn't accept my boyfriend making love with another guy, because I would like to be his boyfriend, not a friend of his. I'm not looking for a sexualized friendship, I'm tired of these things, I'd like a guy to share life with, but if I don't find such a guy, I prefer to stay alone.
Don't worry about me, Project, I'm fine, I'm not depressed, I started working on many of my projects, I joined a football club and I really like going there. Do you know why? Because they are all straight guys and when they talk about sex, they talk about girls and they don't mind my own business. They welcomed me as a friend but we are "just" friends, it is so obvious that they are all straight that they are not at all a sexual interest for me, what we really have in common is the interest in football, everything else is part of their and my private.
I feel good in a hetero environment, of course, if there were girls too, it would be much more complicated but there are girls only in Sundays in the audience, in the gym there are no girls. It is as if I was detoxing myself from the excess of gay things, as if I were slowly releasing myself from an addiction. It's nice to find a normalcy again.
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| KEEPING GOING ON AT A MINIMUM LEVEL WITH A GAY GUY |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 08-14-2019, 12:34 PM - Forum: Gay couples
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Hi Project,
I write to you because I have exhausted the list of possible recipients.
It's more a way to let off steam than anything else, if you are there and if the forum still works, ok, otherwise it will be like having put a message in a bottle that has been lost in the ocean, but anyway I would have lost just a little time writing.
I’m 36, friends ... just someone, real friends ... I don't even know. There is a guy who interests me, he is not my boyfriend, I’m not in love with him, I don't know if I would do anything for him, maybe not, but somehow I like him. Incidentally, I never understood those of “all or nothing”, lost lovers and things like that, for me the fundamental person is always and only one: myself.
I never had a real boyfriend, that is I never lived a couple life, I did a little sex, and just a little, but then no crazy enthusiasm. I'd like to be with a guy but first of all in order to fight a battle together, to collaborate in everyday life, even to have sex, but if we reduce everything to that, well, then this guy or that one it’s all the same, more or less. I was talking about the guy who interests me, ... what can I say?
He fascinates me but I realize that a real dialogue is not possible, he’s always angry with the world, anxious, resentful (not with me, or at least with me only very rarely). Sometimes he calls me and I like it but I don't understand why he calls me. What do you want from me? Sex? Project, please note that he’s a handsome guy and on the contrary I’m not handsome at all.
For him, it wouldn’t take too much commitment to find a bit of sex and sometimes it happens, when he has no one there is me always or at least sometimes available, certainly it's not a problem for me, by now he doesn’t even make me more proposals, he tells me that I always say no (it's what I usually do), but if he’s the first one to tell me in the face that he doesn't want to feel bound, why does he look for me?
But then of the fact that he has other guys honestly I don't care at all, but I wish he had more respect for me, for example I can't stand when he tells me that the next day he will come to see me and then he doesn't come, or when we have to meet but then he skips our meeting because obviously he has more interesting proposals. But all this, ok, it's his business, I'm not his boyfriend, but a bit of respect, I don't say loyalty, but he really should have at least a minimal respect. He tells me to call him and then he puts the answering machine and he never answers.
One day he asks me to drive him to another city, almost 200 km away, he could go by train, but he suggests that we go together, I insist on going with my car, he finally accepts. We leave early in the morning, obviously he doesn't even tell me what it's going to do. We talk a bit in the car, but he seems unnerved. We arrive at the destination, he gives me an appointment in the center for two in the afternoon, then he goes down to take the subway.
Obviously, at two o'clock he doesn't arrive and not even at three o'clock, his phone is disconnected, he doesn't answer until 9.00 pm, then he sends me a text message and tells me he had nerves and took the train to came back home. He must have left at least three hours earlier, but obviously he hasn't warned me. I went back alone and I can say that the trip made me reflect!
I must regain my autonomy. At 36, I must understand that certain things make no sense. Note, Project, that I speak of a simple friendship, but even a simple friendship should be something minimally serious, otherwise one lives much better alone! Once at home I called him back and he told me he didn't have time because he had a job to finish, and I also regretted calling him back.
Of course, solitude is a value! I know it very well, and then when he calls me we end up with clarifications and recriminations, he tells me that he can't feel comfortable because of me, because I’m anxious and neurotic and I transmit my anxiety to him. I know that he has so many problems and also very serious ones, but if he tells me he was wrong to tell me about it, why does he call me first? But if he talks to me about something I have to tell him what I think about and not what he wants to hear and from there the piqued answers or better the total absence of answers.
We have two very different ways of looking at life, he tells me that I was born old and that I will be alone all my life, but then what will he do? He is now 31, and when you have had many guys it is like not having had one, but he thinks I will be the only one who will remain alone, he accuses me of reasoning like his parents, of avoiding risks even at the cost of living less intensely, he accuses me of always running away, of not deciding, of being ambiguous, of keeping one foot in two shoes. Why can't I have a minimally serious dialogue with this guy without ending up in endless squabbles?
He is as he is, now I can only adapt, and then why does he get angry with me? Because probably when he talks about nonsense or sex all guys follow him, but when he enters the melancholic tone (which often happens to him) then no one listens to him or sometimes people give him reason just to make him feel happy.
I wonder, Project, what has all this to do with the fact of being gay? Certainly anyway there is some link, because I would clearly not be following a girl like I follow him, that is, putting apart also my dignity! But why do two gays end up having these problems? And then starting from things of life in general, which have nothing to do with sex or emotional life. But maybe all these things are somehow linked!
Project, I'm tired, very tired, I can't take to repeat the same speeches over and over again, maybe I'm just old inside and I'm learning not to hope for anything and to let things go as they must go. I know it would be much more hygienic and healthy to end this relationship, if it is a relationship, but it is not easy even to end it. What problems! Ten years ago I used to think it was easier! And people are always talking about gay marriage! The real problem is being able to get along with a guy even at minimal levels.
Hi Project and if you are there, make you heard.
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| FROM GAY COUPLE TO ENLARGED FAMILY |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 07-31-2019, 08:09 PM - Forum: Gay couples
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Hello Project,
we don't know each other but I know you a little because I've read the forum so many times and I still read it now and I think it's my duty to tell you my story because you also have something to do with it.
I’m 32 years old, I don't know if they are many but to me they seem truly many. I can say I'm lucky because life has been very generous with me. I have parents I love, who are getting old, but it's inevitable, they never really made me feel alone.
I never had any problems with my homosexuality, or rather, I had no problems accepting it, for me it was an obvious and natural thing, I have been involved in a few stories, but of little meaning, just when I was very young, then I dedicated myself to work in almost exclusive and I put aside my emotional world for a while. I also met gay guys but, frankly, I didn't feel attracted to them.
Then, when I was 26, I met a guy, whom I will call Fulvio here (because he is a bit red in hair [in Italian the adjective "fulvo" means "reddish"]). I met him at work but he wasn’t a colleague of mine, he was working for a company that lives producing semi-finished mechanical components for the company where I work. When we met, I have to say, I didn’t feel involved with him, for me he was just a guy I had met by chance and with whom I had absolutely nothing to share. For work reasons we had the opportunity to meet several times and so we started talking a little, but about everything and nothing in particular.
In hindsight I can say that he probably understood a lot more about me than what I understood about him. Still for work reasons we continued to see each other often and I noticed that when it happened, for me it was a pleasing thing and probably for him too, and so our mutual knowledge gradually deepened. He is a nice guy but not exactly a handsome guy, or at least he didn't look like a handsome guy to me, so I didn't feel attracted to him in that sense.
One day he was very angry, really furious, he was depressed, but very troubled, upset, aggressive, and he began to attack me, of course, only verbally. He unloaded his anger against me and I didn't understand why. I must confess that for this reason I was uncomfortable, I did not understand the reason for his aggressiveness.
In the following days he didn't change his attitude and then he disappeared, I never saw him again and I didn't know what to think. I kept going to his company, always for work reasons, but in his place there was a middle-aged lady and I missed Fulvio. In the end I took courage and asked news about him. They told me that he had quit his job and that he never showed up again. I didn't have his cell phone number, I asked the lady but she didn't give it to me and I was very upset, but one day, while I was waiting for the lady in her office, I saw that there was an open agenda. Since I knew the guy's name I looked for it and found it, I memorized the number and then, when the lady arrived, I acted as usual, as if nothing had happened.
When I got home I called him. He immediately asked me who had given me his number and I told him that I had stolen it, he started to set off his aggressiveness and attacked me badly and, shortly after, he closed the phone in an abrupt manner. I felt a total fool for having looked for him and I have been in a bad mood for most of the evening. Then, at around 11.00 pm he calls me back, apologizes, always a bit brusquely, asks me if I live alone or if there are others at home, I tell him that there is no one, he asks me where I live exactly, I tell him where and he replies that he will come to my house after a few minutes, I just say: ok!
He arrives, looks around, then asks me: "Why did you look for me?" I tell him that I hadn't seen him for a few days and other such banalities. He stops me and says: "People don't steal a phone number if there is no serious reason!" I feel a little put at the corner and I try to digress, he apparently changes the subject: "Do you have a girl?" I answer him: "No! And you?" He hesitates, then says, "No!" But he goes further: "So why did you look for me?" I reply in a deliberately neutral way: "Because I was fine talking to you." Then he asks the question I never wanted to hear: "Are you gay?" I feel terrible embarrassment, but I say to him: "Yes" and I immediately add: "And you?" He waits a few seconds and then says: "Yes, but I don’t want a guy." I answer him: "But I'm not in love with you, you're not my type, you just seemed like an interesting guy ... " He interrupts me: "And what do you want from me?" I tell him that if he comes under my home at night there will be a reason, he looks at me with a defiant attitude: "You think you have understood everything, but you didn't understand a shit! You only make me angry!"
Well, our relationship began like this, in practice somehow as a fight. Nothing tender, nothing affectionate, absolutely nothing sexual. He stayed at my house until after two, I suggested he could sleep at my home, obviously not in my room, but he didn't want to hear about such proposals. His behavior destabilized me. In the following days I called him on the phone several times but he never answered. After a week he came back to my house late at night, I thought he wanted to talk a little, but he asked me if he could stay the night and he retired to the guest room and in the morning, very early, I heard he was closing the door of the house, I went to see, he had left and had left a note, with only written: "I'll call you".
Our relationship proceeded this way, apparently without a goal and without meaning. I didn't understand anything about him, I didn't know anything about him. I wondered why I had got into such a mess, I felt used and at the same time marginalized. Then a traumatic event intervened, but not at a psychological level, right at the physical level: I had a serious car accident and ended up in the hospital in a reserved prognosis for a few days. I don’t remember anything of those days, I only know that when I woke up, or better at my first re-emergence to consciousness, I had my parents and Fulvio around me. Then they told me he had been there every day as long as they allowed him to stay by my bed.
My recovery was slow, it took me almost three months to get back into acceptable conditions, that is to walk more or less normally and he stayed three months at my house to assist me, day and night, and the first times it must have been something really heavy. But he didn't just assist me, he sat next to me and we talked a lot, he treated me with affection. Slowly I learned to understand his world, and it was a difficult world, so difficult that I didn't believe that such a world could exist.
We slept in the same room, I on the orthopedic bed and he on a cot. I asked him why he had quit his job and he told me that he didn't quit his job but they fired him because one of his bosses had tried something sexual with him and he had sent him to the hell. He told me that he stayed at my house also because he could no longer pay for the room because, without a job and without money it was absolutely impossible, and therefore he had also taken the opportunity to find a temporary accommodation. This speech struck me a lot.
He told me very briefly about his family, if we can call it this way. His father hadn’t recognized him and, in practice, he almost never saw him, his mother died of an overdose when he was a child and he was entrusted to his grandmother who lived with a very minimal pension, then, just a few days after he turned 22, his grandmother died too, he had just found a job and shared a rented room with another guy, but shortly they fired him and he had to leave the room.
Fulvio is extremely proud, he has a dignity, he has never talked to me about money and this means that, if he stays with me, very likely he is not there for money or to find an accommodation, even if he tells the exact opposite. Among other things, in the last period of my convalescence he found another job. Precisely for this reason we were forced to arrive at a clarification. He told me he could be autonomous again and that he would leave. I began to be afraid, I knew I could not ask him to stay with me on the grounds of economic utility because such a thing would have infuriated him. He didn't want to depend on anyone, he said to me: "Now you don't need me anymore."
It was precisely to respond to that statement that I told him I had fallen in love with him. He looked at me right in the eyes and said, "Don't lie! I know that it’s not true!" Then I had to correct my sentence: "Well, I think I could fall in love with you, but, please, don't go away!" He stared at me for a few seconds: "At least you didn't say lies.” And he stayed with me. I feared that he wanted to set a deadline, for example that he would say to me: "I only stay a month." But I immediately noticed that he had set no limits, but obviously I pretended I hadn’t noticed it, and said nothing about this. Our life together began this way.
With the new job he had big problems, they wanted to fire him because he didn't want to close his eyes in front of very deep forms of malpractice if not of real scam. Then he changed job and the new job was widely better, requited more time but was even better paid. For a certain period (two or three months at least) I thought that Fulvio had found a guy, because he spent a lot of time away from home, I was worried but I didn't have the courage to ask him anything, I saw him very tired, stressed, almost physically destroyed by work.
At one point I thought that he really had serious problems because he was home only at night and for a few hours, I could no longer bear not knowing what was happening and I asked him what he had. He looked at me, he meditated for a moment and then he said to me: "It’s right for you to know it: I have a boyfriend, if you want, I pack my bags today and leave." I stopped him and told him: "Ok, you have a boyfriend, but why are you so stressed?" And he replied: "Because Claudio has huge problems and we are trying to solve them, I work from morning to night, I do double shifts and I can hardly see him ..." That's what he told me about Claudio, then he added: “he's a boy refused by his family and who is coming out of bad circles, who ran away from his city because he was really afraid of the criminals who forced him to ... well, you understood ... "
He told me that Claudio had a bed for rent and that he didn't work because he was in very bad shape. I told him: "But make him come here! With a minimum of sacrifice this house can be enough for the three of us, then we’ll see what we can do." He looked at me quite perplexed, then said: "Do you realize what you are saying?" I replied: "Maybe not perfectly, but let's not waste time, let's go get him." Claudio was really upset: skin and bones, two hours later he was at home with Fulvio.
I gave them my room that had a double bed and I moved into the small room, they didn't want to, but I forced them. The same afternoon we took Claudio to a very good doctor who prescribed him a series of tests and explained to us how to do in order to make Claudio be taken on charge by our region's health service, since he comes from another region. Obviously Claudio also did the HIV test and since he hadn't had sex for quite some time, the window period had also passed. The test gave negative results and we calmed down, after a few days we had all the clinical results in hand. In practice, Claudio carried the consequences of an untreated bronchopneumonia and full recovery would take time. Everything else was in order.
Claudio was then 23 years old, he was very tall but he already had a bent back and was very thin. We took care of him and saw him slowly bloom again. Fulvio was madly in love with him and seeing them together aroused great tenderness in me, with me they were absolutely natural and casual. Sometimes we used to watch television together, I in the armchair and they crouched together on the sofa. I, who in theory should have been jealous, I felt happy to see them like this.
Almost five years have passed. We still live together, we are now a family, they are a very tender and very real gay couple, I don't know what I am, at the beginning I was a bit of a nanny, now I’m "only" a true friend who loves them. Now Claudio also works and we share all the expenses, they have placed it as a mandatory condition to continue being together. My way of being gay is certainly strange but nevertheless I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world: their happiness is my happiness!
I have to add one more thing that seems very important to me. One day I was at my parents' house, I took courage in two hands and told them the whole story. I didn't know how they would take it. My father looked me straight in the eyes, then he stood up, he said to me: "Come here!" And hugged me tightly, then he exchanged a look of understanding with my mother and told me: "Sunday the three of you must come to have lunch here with us!” There were no other comments of any kind. On Sunday, when Fulvio and Claudio came to my parent's home, I tell you it almost with tears in my eyes, my parents were just as happy as two kids and Fulvio and Claudio had a great time. Now every now and then mom goes to my house, cleans the house and brings us something already cooked to eat. Fulvio and Claudio have a beautiful relationship with my parents, in practice we are an extended family.
That's all, Project, of course you can put the email where you like better because there are no identifiable elements and the names have been changed. Fulvio and Claudio greet you, they too have heard of you!
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| GAY GUYS AND THE ANXIETY OF WAITING |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 07-30-2019, 01:17 PM - Forum: Gays and prevention
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Dear Project,
it was good for me to talk to you last night, but the underlying concerns remain and I hope that in the end they can vanish, because if it didn't happen, it would really be a nightmare.
One considers certain things always distant and almost impossible, then you realize that it can happen, and that the fact that it doesn't happen to you personally in the end only consoles you a little. It can happen to the people you love and if it happened it would be destructive.
You tried to get the guilt complexes out of my head, somehow you succeeded because those were not really problems, I know very well that, whatever happened, it is not immediately attributable to me, but this doesn’t make me feel better.
We will have to wait another few days and I pray to God that there will be no terrible news. Of him I spoke only with you, in complete anonymity, first of all out of respect for him and then because my friends would understand nothing, for them when a story is over, is over, if a guy is your boyfriend, then you have some duties, but if he is no longer such you are totally free, but for me it has never been so. He is no longer my boyfriend for years now but I love him anyway, and thinking that he may be sick knocks me out.
For a long time we didn't hear each other, and I was quiet, that is, I thought he was okay, then he called me with those doubts on his mind and put me in crisis. My guts are contorting, I'm afraid, afraid for him. It's not a rational thing, waiting for the results it has a bad effect, and if it's so for me, I imagine how it can be for him. We had talked so much about being careful, not getting into trouble, but now he has doubts and has physical problems. I can only stay close to him because being sick and alone must be really terrible.
With whom could he talk about it? With parents? Mh ... no, not really possible, to his partners? They would dodge him like a leper. Project, at the moment these are all hypotheses that could very well be completely wrong and I hope they are, but I feel anxious, worried and I don't know how to make him feel better. We have a series of medical checks in the near future and I can only hope that there will be no bad news.
He could also have problems that have nothing to do with sexually transmitted diseases, but I see him in crisis, he is not in his normal state, it’s true that anxiety can be destructive, and I hope that it’s only that. We loved each other, then he started to look for something else, and I can understand him, but between us there is still respect and a deep affection.
Project, I feel the anxiety of waiting, the exact opposite of a rational attitude, even if we have planned everything in the way that seems most rational, I feel uneasy, I have the feeling that human life is carried by the wind like the leaves. For what little I can, I have to try to be close to him, if I let myself be taken by anguish I make him feel even worse. Project, I was amazed by your attitude in chat, you didn’t trivialize as people do, you didn’t say the classic: "you will see that it will be nothing" no! You said to me: "However things go you have an irreplaceable role" and this phrase has remained in my mind.
I embrace you strongly, Project, I'll call you back on skype in the afternoon.
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| LONELINESS OF A GAY ACADEMIC |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 07-28-2019, 02:05 PM - Forum: Gay couples
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Hi, Project,
I’m writing you at a very special time when I need to tell you how I feel and what emotions I carry inside me. I'm now a forty-five year old guy, when I was already putting aside my dreams of love, at the age of thirty, I fell in love with a twenty-three-year-old and lived with him a beautiful story, with ups and downs, like all true stories, but really a beautiful story, a true story, indeed, even if absolutely out of all the schemes.
After almost 15 years I had the distinct feeling that this relationship had gone into crisis, I couldn’t even say because of whom, because I also did my part, and in any case talking about guilt in these things doesn’t make much sense. My boyfriend, if we want to call him so, because he was 38 years old, seemed to have moved away from me, had had other experiences and it seemed to me that he felt much more fulfilled in those experiences than in being with me.
He never hid anything from me, I knew he was looking for other relationships and needed them. It may seem strange but our relationship rested on other balances. We never fought, but I heard him move away more and more, then a couple of months ago, he practically disappeared and I never heard him again, I thought he had built another story and had found his way. But he could even call me! Disappearing completely is not part of his usual behavior. I didn't know what to think, I wondered if I was right to call him but the doubts were many and so I let so much time go by, then finally I decided and I called him.
We started talking again as if those two months hadn't really existed, it seemed that in our relationship there had never been a pause, I didn't ask him about his companion but from his talking I had the impression that he was absolutely alone. He dedicates himself to his studies, because he is truly a scientist, but he lets go everything else. On feast days he does not shave, gets up very late, doesn’t even cook and is practically abandoned to himself. He asks me if I want to go to his house, I go there and I find the most complete confusion, dirty linen everywhere, dishes to wash, bed in disorder, the desk full of books and sheets of all kinds. When he opens the door he has unshaven beard, tousled hair and a distraught face, looking at him one immediately thinks of a drug addict but he is addicted only to coffee, plastic coffee cups are scattered everywhere. He asks me if I want to have sex with him. I tell him: "After! Now let's do some cleaning.” We work in pairs for a couple of hours before giving the house a minimally decent look (and it's a very small house). Then I open the fridge and it is a total desolation, practically there are only very old leftovers. In the pantry there is only a box of beans, fortunately there is also a bit of pasta and a garlic head in passable conditions. We do two washing machines, but he is distracted, I don't ask him about his ex, because the answer is obvious in the facts: he’s alone again. We eat a pasta and beans which is good and puts him back in a good mood.
Around three in the afternoon we finish having lunch, then he sets in front of me, like he does when he wants to have sex, but I should say when he needs to have sex because for him it's a deep need. I was tired and fatigued but I tried to be up to the occasion. He wanted in every way to try to involve me in his sexual fantasies that are quite different from mine, he described situations in which he found himself when he was still a boy, if not even a kid, and that left deep traces inside him. Sex with me was almost a way of reliving those situations, asking me what I would do if I found myself in those situations, whether they were exciting for me or not. I tried to respond with the utmost honesty, but always with the fear that my answers were far from those he wanted, I saw his attempt to involve me in his world, in his sexuality and at the same time I had to tell the truth and don't disappoint him.
He tells me that at sexual level I have to try to find a ground compatible with his, that I have to do it for him, but he also demands that I really tell him what I think. If I pretended, he would feel encouraged and comforted, but sooner or later would realize that what I tell him is not true, and he wouldn’t accept such a thing at all. I have always wondered if with his other partners he has ever faced certain things but I believe that it never happened. He once explained to me that he never told lies to other people and when he was asked questions, he replied telling the truth, but no one was really interested in what could go through his head. With the others he simply omitted the most private topics, he left everything at a more superficial level and for this very reason he ended up feeling like someone reciting, pretending, because omitting means not considering the other to be able to understand, in other words means not trusting him.
From me he feels accepted at another level, he doesn’t feel judged and in fact the thing that I appreciated more than any other in him is the spontaneous tendency to trust me instinctively. After all, I don't expect him to have sexual fidelity, maybe sooner or later it will come, probably not soon, but it doesn't really matter, but I expect him to speak clearly, and on this point he never failed.
Sometimes, months ago, when I went to hear him when he was giving some lectures, I was enchanted, even if I didn't understand anything of what he was saying. He looked like another person, he was perfectly in order, without being excessive in anything. I saw him as absolutely rational, a true scientist, capable of perfect and spontaneous self-control, he didn’t act a script, he treated his audience almost professionally, with ease and at the same time with the detachment of one who is used to social relations. I saw how they treated him with respect and almost deference, even though they were almost all older than him, and I was happy about this, but I knew that this was only one aspect of his life, and not of the fundamentals.
He devotes a great deal of time to the substance of his scientific works rather than to appearing, even if the interest in science, which makes him spend so many nights awake, has something obsessive and probably comes from a rather depressed background tone, he seeks in that way to escape a substantial loneliness that isolates him at an emotional level. He is no longer very young but he is definitely a handsome guy, and I would say also boy, because he still has, especially in private, the impulsive and emotional way of doing of a boy, he is affirmed in his field, he is fascinating, but behind there is an abyss of solitude to which nobody pays attention. I love him and I also think I’m important to him, he says that I’m important only or almost exclusively on a sexual level, but I believe that it’s not so, he doesn’t like the idea of binding himself to someone, of depending emotionally on someone also if he needs these things, or better he certainly doesn’t need to depend but to be loved, he needs someone who loves him for his weak sides. He knows that I will not give him up, that I understand when he is not well and that I accept him as he is. He trusts me and I trust him, he never put me in embarrassing situations.
I’m reminded of a conference that he gave more or less six months ago. Before he started, he saw me in the audience and came down to greet me with the utmost respect, just as he would greet a luminary of science, almost a Nobel prize, no familiarity, just respect. I remember that when I sat down again many people looked at me wondering who I was. At the end of the conference I went to shake his hand and he answered making me a little bow. I love him, I wish he were happy. Years ago I thought he could be happy with somebody else, but now I start thinking that maybe he will never be happy in the true sense of the word and that he will still need to be understood and accepted with all his contradictions. He trusted me completely and he'd never trusted anyone else the same way, he let me into his most intimate world in which I think no one else has entered, I don't know if this is called love, but I think so. The relationship I have with him will never be a standard relationship, with a standard sexuality, it will be a world of our own, which seen from the outside may seem completely absurd, if not pathological, I know today that I have not lost him and I'm happy, but it's not something to be taken lightly, it's not a fairy tale or a recital with the script already written, it's a reality to be built.
Sometimes I'm almost afraid that he can invest all his affection on me without even realizing it, I'm afraid of not being up to it, sometimes I also think I could die a lot before him, I'm older and such an event is absolutely natural. In certain moments, very ours and very intimate, I feel that he totally melts, that he needs to be embraced, almost protected, and these are the most beautiful moments, other times he puts me in crisis with some terrible reasoning or reproaching me when I begin to speak freely and repeat always the same things. Sometimes he tells me that I am hypocritical and it's true, that I must learn to tell the brutal truth, that I must not hide behind words. I lost so many friends but I never lost him because we created almost a symbiosis, maybe it's just that. I no longer ask myself so many questions, I simply feel happy to be close to him even though I know it won't be easy at all.
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| HOW TO REGISTER ON THIS FORUM |
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Posted by: HappySoul - 07-23-2019, 01:14 PM - Forum: Announcements and Services
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I see that unfortunately the registered users on this forum are very few, that those who post are very few and that the posts are very few, and I really regret this, because the forum is very interesting.
I wrote to Project to find out the reason for all this and he explained to me that, even if there were some subscriptions, the users were not allowed to post because they didn't send the email explicitly requested for activation.
To carefully avoid the access of people not interested in the forum but only wishing to disturb or exploit the forum for commercial interests, Project, explicitly requests the sending of an email to the address [email protected] with the indication of the nick of the new user and some lines to make it clear that the email really arrives from a new user and not from an automatic system. Perhaps the registration page is very long and nobody reads it to the end, and I think it's a shame.
Another important thing: I also read the "Being Gay" manual and consider it a real mine of information and documents.
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| SEXUAL ABUSE AND OBSESSIVE CONTENTS |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-08-2019, 08:35 PM - Forum: Gay orientation
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The connection between sexual abuse and obsessive content related to sexuality deserves further study. I will consider two different situations, the first concerning a gay guy who has been abused in childhood and who presents a gay sexuality deeply conditioned by the experience of the abuse, the second concerning a straight guy who has been abused in adolescence and has developed a gay-themed OCD (I will only deal with the case of a OCD that had already manifested before the abuse). The situations, despite their substantial differences, have a fundamental aspect in common: the identification of the victim with the abuser. Let’s start with the first situation.
1) A gay guy, who has been sexually abused in childhood, has a gay sexuality that in the first meetings with his partners does not present particular problems but, if the relationship deepens, the guy gets to confess to his partner that he has been sexually abused, nevertheless he does not tend to feel as the victim but almost as the co-responsible if not as the promoter of the abuse, he tries anyhow to involve his partner in his obsessive fantasies concerning the abuse with insistently (obsessively) repeated questions about the circumstances of the abuse, asking him what he would do if he found himself in similar situations; faced with evasive or patently disinterested responses, the guy seems incredulous and attributes the lack of interest in sharing that particular sexual fantasies on the part of his partner to an alleged moralism of the partner himself, however the insistence does not cease even in the face of an obvious lack of interest but becomes even more pressing, as if the guy wanted to obtain a confession analogous to his own. The obsessive insistence on the partner goes as far as to induce him, in more or less long time, to distance himself and interrupt the relationship.
It is evident that the memory of the abuse has become a sexual archetype from which it is difficult to get free, and here a mechanism characteristic of the abuse is triggered: the victim imagines himself in the role of the abuser, situations of discomfort even very strong are created this way, because the victim sees himself as a potential pedophile and develops pedophile fantasies in which he assumes, in an oscillating manner, both the role of victim and abuser.
Basically the projective identification with the abuser and his behaviors favors guilt feelings and strongly weakens the possibility of rationalizing the memory of the abuse and of living a sexuality not deeply conditioned by the abuse itself.
2) In the case of the straight guy with a pre-existing gay themed OCD, the abuse in adolescence creates objective complications that cannot be ignored because it does nothing but feed the OCD, even though it cannot actually destroy the guy’s straight sexuality. The mechanism of identification with the abuser, in this case, cannot lead to true gay sexual fantasies (because the guy is a straight guy) but only to obsessions and gay compulsions which, as is usually the case in the OCD, remain, at most, at the level of masturbation and, in almost all cases, never materialize in real sexual relationships. The gay-themed compulsions and obsessions are perceived as deeply disturbing compared to the true sexuality that is and anyway remains straight.
The identification with the abuser can however be more complex when the abuser is not really a gay man but he is a married man or a man who has children, that is when the abuser is or appears to be a straight adult, with whom the straight guy with OCD can easily identify on the basis of the following projective mechanism: ”He is straight because he is married and has children, but if he abused me it means he also had gay fantasies and could not refrain from putting them into practice, but I am straight too, because I have a girlfriend and I have sex with her, but I also have gay fantasies, so in the end I won’t be able to stop myself and I’ll end up needing to have sex with a man. How can I be with a girl if I already desire men and know that sooner or later I will betray her with a man? I am fooling my girlfriend into believing that I am straight, but it is not so!”
In this case the identification mechanism acts through different paths but it is no less disruptive than in the case of the gay guy and creates the risk, sometimes lived obsessively, but objectively not very concrete, to lead to the breakdown the relationship with the girl.
The deeper identification with the abuser leads to two closely related consequences:
1) the responsibility of the abuser appears to be much lighter;
2) even if in such situations it’s evident that in any case no responsibility can be charged on the victim, the victim himself overestimates his own presumed responsibility up to the point to consider his own behavior decisive, and consequently to experience guilt feelings objectively unjustified.
In the two cases presented, the most suitable conditions to overcome obsessive thinking are realized when the guys have their ”real” emotional life, that is:
1) in the first case, when the gay guy lives not a unilateral falling in love but an authentic love story with a guy with whom a relationship is created that is completely independent of the fantasies related to abuse, fantasies which can also remain but marginalized and spontaneously not shared, fantasies that are not considered as a taboo but are very rarely argument of conversation. In essence the stories that materialize or tend to materialize only or mainly in terms of more or less spontaneous sharing of fantasies linked to abuse are not true love stories and therefore do not contribute to the overcoming of obsessive thinking;
2) in the second case, when the straight guy lives a love story in which the girl knows that the guy has been abused and realizes that the obsessive thought linked to the OCD can cause the guy to question his heterosexuality. The OCD has a strong conditioning capacity in two cases:
a) when the girl tries to ignore obsessive contents, pretending that they do not exist;
b) when the girl emphasizes the obsessive contents and offers them a sound box that amplifies their effect.
OCD must be tackled with awareness but without dramatization.
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| MISADVENTURES OF A YOUNG GAY GUY |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 03-26-2019, 04:06 PM - Forum: True gay stories
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Hi Project,
it's a shame that your forum is basically abandoned, I've read it far and wide and it's really immense, a kind of encyclopedia of homosexuality that helps people understand so many things. I'm writing to you because I think that your forum could be the right place.
I am 26, I have always felt gay, for me it was the most natural thing one could imagine, up to 21 years old I lived of masturbation and fantasies, then I downloaded some gay applications on my smartphone and from there it started another adventure. When I spotted a guy I liked, or he wasn't interested in me, because I wasn't exactly a cinema star, or he had some strange fixed ideas and I had to put apart my imagination out of necessity.
In four years I have found only two guys with whom I built a minimum of discourse and also a minimum of sex (of that just at zero risk) that is mutual masturbation and nothing else. The thing excited me, more with the first guy than with the second one, but it wasn’t enough for them, they wanted to go beyond and without a condom because they said they were "clean" and this expression was enough to put me in crisis, in practice I was scared of being hiv-positive, even though I never really had had risky behaviors.
I closed the app, I took the test twice and it and in both cases it resulted negative. Anyway, my two relationships lacked emotional content, those guys didn't care about me but they were only interested in what they could do with me, and to tell the truth it was the same for me.
I've been back to my previous life for more than a year now: masturbation and fantasy and also a lot of porn, but I miss the real contact with a guy, something that can’t be reduced just to having sex together, I miss a guy who takes care of me and that allows me to do the same with him, I miss the affectionate phone calls, I miss the cuddles of lovers. But is it possible that I am the only one who appreciates these things? The two guys of the app seemed to be interested in such a relationship, but for them it was just a means of approach, because they aimed at something else.
In fact there were two elements that put me in crisis with both of them, one is the fact that they were fixed with the B side, and the other, very unpleasant for me, that I felt almost treated like I was a woman. I have absolutely nothing against women, God forbid! But I didn't feel the relationship with those guys as a peer relationship: their attention for my ... was practically zero! I have always been gay, but for me the ... of the guys has always been absolutely fundamental while the idea of the B side I never passed through my mind, for them it was exactly the opposite. Frankly, there was something that sounded strange to me. Or it's me the one who is weird as gay or they're not really gay.
In short, for me that little bit of sex I had with those two guys was not really engaging, I played my part, more out of curiosity than anything else and the idea of going further just didn't touch me and therefore it all ended so.
At university I had a crush on a colleague who never talked about girls and who was cute with me and I liked him a lot too. We exchanged gifts, we went several times to get a pizza together and he never talked about girls (not even about boys), then at a certain point he started to slip away, maybe he realized he ended up in a gay relationship that he didn't really like, I think that's the way it is, but I wonder what he was afraid of, the fact is that he disappeared, I looked for him a few times, he didn't answer anymore and so it's all over.
I have always dreamed of a couple's life in the true sense of the word, that is with a true cohabitation, but at the moment it seems to me an idea that is too theoretical. I could find the guy of my dreams even tomorrow, in theory it is possible, but I fear it will never happen. I have two gay friends that sometimes chat with me, they are a very close-knit and absolutely invisible couple, great guys, I don't physically like them and so I haven’t any kind of fantasies about them, we talk a bit, but they are very discreet and in practice, for me, they are more virtual friends than anything else, in the sense that we talk on social media and that's all.
I would like a gay guy like me, but such guys do they exist? I'm beginning to think that if so many gays don't choose civil unions it's because they think it's just a formality. Why should they pretend to build something stable when they know with reasonable certainty that nothing will be stable? The future of gays are the apps? A forum like yours is another thing but no one likes too much writing or reading. I really fear that if it is true that the internet has given us many possibilities, it is also true that it has created models that risk trivializing gay relationships and reducing them to sexual exchanges just to do something and this is really sad. I vented a little. What do you think about Project?
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