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  COUPLE GAY SEX AND FEAR OF DISEASES
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-16-2020, 03:02 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

Hi Project,
I’m writing to you because in these days I’m having a thousand problems regarding sex with my partner. I’m 34 years old, he is 32, it must be said immediately that unfortunately we don’t live together because we work and live in cities about 200 km away, however, for years now, we have met in practice every weekend, once I go to him and once he comes to me. The fact of not living together is unfortunately a big limitation, we tried to look for a solution, somehow to change job or company, but it’s a very problematic thing and moving is practically impossible, we both know it, as we know that most likely such a situation will last for at least a few years. Between us there are no complaints about this fact because it is not anyone's fault and neither of us can give up his job, but of course being a couple of Sunday commuters, as you can easily understand, destabilizes a little.
 
Since I met him I found him basically quiet. He had had his stories and even complicated, but only mental and one-sided, he calls them "mental blowjobs", and probably he faced them by throwing himself in with his shoes on and finally getting nothing more than a series of cold showers. Before we met, he had only had sex with other guys on cam but never in person. So he had built pseudo-stories, all rigorously lasting no more than a month, but for him such stories were very important, probably because they were the first ones. It was never he the one who left a guy, but it was always his current boyfriend (let's call him so) who left him because guys felt him a little strange, let's say a little humoral, a little willing to do anything when he was in a good mood and a little depressed, and quite a lot, when he slipped in a bad mood, and above all because he wanted to feel free. Note, Project, that he only knew those guys through chats and some sex on cam. I don't know how he managed to give credit to such things, but for him they must have been anyhow very involving, and every time those stories ended he used to feel very bad, at least so he told me.
 
He has never been able to endure standard things, that is traditional couples, messages, birthday presents and things like that, and also with me the fact of having to make a trip every 15 days and seeing each other only on Saturdays and Sundays it’s something that he feels forced to accept, he says to me: "If I want to make love with you on Tuesday I have to wait until Saturday, but it's absurd!" If he is a little strange and humoral, and he really is, I have my shortcomings: I don't like unexpected program changes, I have to be able to plan my week, I'm a guy used to following my rhythms and habits and frankly I don't have much creative spirit. He’s a genius, he’s much more intelligent than me (and I’m happy that he is!) so much so that sometimes he puts me in crisis, but many times he underestimates himself a lot, he always thinks he’s below the others, he sees the other guys more beautiful, more smart, more confident, never depressed, never in a black mood, and all this puts him in a situation of discomfort. He has never considered himself a handsome guy and when I tell him that he is (and really he is), he looks at me with a puzzled and a little annoyed air, as if I were giving him a fake compliment. We love each other, but without constraints, obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be with me, I know he wants to be free and I never ask him questions. In the past he would tell me of the stories he had with certain guys, of course stories that were real just in his brain, now he doesn't tell me anything anymore and I believe he has no more stories. A few years ago he considered his job to be beyond his ability, now he is very busy in his job and he’s also highly esteemed, because his bosses begin to understand that, if they let him free, he is able to do things that few others would be able to realize or even think of. In short, I think that now his job takes up a lot of his time, after his job for him there is me, Saturday and Sunday in person and the other days for an hour via Skype. He is brusque with me, also a little aggressive, but only when he’s tired or stressed by work problems, it’s true that sometimes he treats me like a rag but then he regrets it and apologizes.
 
But now I come to the reason why I’m writing you this email. When we met he was 26 years old, he was the one to court me, I liked him very much, I considered him the most beautiful guy I had known, but I thought that a guy like him could not find anything interesting in me. At the beginning we talked a lot on the phone, even several hours in the day, then it was he who took the sexual initiative, something that I would have never expected, I certainly wanted it, but I didn't think it possible. It was the first time for him and for me. I was full of complexes, and in practice he did everything, he was patient, he put me at ease and slowly made me understand many things about sex. The best thing, when we had sex, was to see him play, joke, feel totally free, I cannot deny that all this dragged me into an environment of sexual spontaneity that I would never have thought possible before, but that with him was an absolutely natural thing. We used to speak and behave with each other with the utmost freedom and there was a practically perfect understanding, I can't say that there was total symmetry, because we had different ways of living sex but we were happy to be together, we needed nothing else. If I think about me, well, he really changed my life, he took me to another highly engaging dimension. At the time we weren't even afraid of HIV because neither he nor I had ever had relationships with anyone, and sex was really a way to let loose, more on his part than on my part, but he knew he was making me discover a new world and he respected my times, he tried to follow my rhythms, or at least to involve me in his, but in a very sweet and respectful way, yes “respectful” is the right adjective. I was very well with him, a few months before I thought that I would never have sex with anyone, and a few months later, in practice our meetings were centered on sex and I certainly don’t say so to diminish or devalue, because it was not stupid sex at all, we were in love and used to tell each other that we loved each other through sex above all. In short, the first times (even two or three years) we never had sexual problems of any kind. Little by little, a deeper mutual trust was added to sexual intercourse and he told me many things about himself, even of a very private and embarrassing type, in essence he trusted me and he thought of letting me enter his very private world. I think at first he expected a reaction from me similar to what other guys had in front of those speeches, then he realized that there was nothing to fear from my part. Once, a year ago, he told me something that upset me a lot, it sounded more or less like this: “I stay with you because you are a good person, because you respect me, you allow me to feel free, you don't judge me, I know that you love me, I don't know how, but you love me, I’m not in love with you but I’m fine with you, I feel safe, precisely because you love me. For you I have never had that very strong physical involvement that I have had for some other guys, it is a different thing, something quiet, you are not my lover, but you are a good man, and I trust you and until now I never regretted it. Maybe I'll fall in love with other guys and maybe I'll go with them, but I have to know that you are there and that if I needed you, you wouldn't leave me alone."
 
But let's get to the specific problem. A couple of years ago he had sexual relations with other guys, safe and protected sex only, as he told me, but, you know how it is, in short, after he told me it (we hadn't had sex for a couple of months) he asked me to make love to him and I told him that I didn't feel like having sex, but only because of the HIV risk. He initially didn't take it well, he acted like I was rejecting him, then he understood and agreed to take the test, which resulted negative, according to common sense I should have felt calm and reassured but nevertheless I had the same fear because he could have gone with another guys without telling me anything. I actually don't think he would have put me at risk, but, you know, these ideas are a bit like a worm that doesn't go out anymore when it enters your brain. He saw my embarrassment but tried to make me overcome my fears, while in the same time I was trying to reduce our sexual contacts to something that was just at minimal risk, if not zero. From this mechanism began the strange trend of our sexuality. He felt annoyed and somehow upset by my attitude, because, after all, he had done the test and it had resulted negative, and to think that he could have put me at risk without telling me it, was somehow a deep lack of trust in him, because, I’m convinced, he would never do such a thing. In short, an asymmetry started from there, let's call it so, he could do certain things to me that I didn't reciprocate on him and other things were not done at all, he tended to involve me more and more and I tended to keep myself within the boundaries of a very low risk. Then slowly he began to think that I had sex with him not for me but for him, as if it were an altruistic gesture, as if I did it out of pity for him. Such an idea is completely absurd, because I think of him very often in sexual terms and, during the week, when he is not there, I masturbate thinking about him. Note, Project, that since we started our relationship I have never fantasized about other guys. But he’s convinced that the fear of HIV is not the real reason for some of my reluctances. Before, when I went to him or he came to me, the first thing that happened was to go to the bedroom. Lunch could very well wait and so did all the rest and even the speeches, but it was obvious that sex, after a week that we had been apart, could not be postponed at all. Now it's not like that anymore, when we meet we start talking about this and that and even about stupid things, as if we were trying to waste time, I don't take the initiative neither does he, and he gets angry, he tells me that I’m a hypocrite, that I want him to always take the initiative, so that I can then give my consent like a grace, he tells me that this thing is making him angry because this script is repeated exactly in the same way too many times. I swear to you, Project, that I don't take the initiative just because I'm embarrassed and I don't have the slightest intention giving my consent like a grace, because in any case my consent is obvious. For the whole week I say to myself and I repeat that I have to take the initiative, then, when we are together I stop, I’m afraid that he will say no, that he will get angry because it is not the right time or for some other reason, or simply because maybe he’s stressed and would prefer to speak. He complains that I talk too much, that I act like a young girl full of complexes, that I use a too flirtatious and feminine language. He would like me to be at his level, very determined and above all much more interested in sex. In a way he doesn’t understand that I’m interested, but essentially because he is there, because if he were not there, sex for me would be a strictly individual thing and made above all, and perhaps completely, of fantasy and of much or more frustrated desires, as it was before I knew him.
 
Our problems are almost all in the starting phase of sex, which can be ruined by talking too much. I often try to bite my tongue and avoid speeches because I know he doesn't like them and I try to adopt adequate language and behavior. In practice I try to imitate his language and his behavior. He tells me that I look like an 18th-century valet and that he would like me to be "more man", an expression that I don't like at all. He tells me that with him I have to be spontaneous, I must take the liberty of doing anything, that I don't have to be "obsequious and clumsy" but that I have to wake up. More or less since Christmas, last year, every now and then, let's say more or less 30% of the time, it was possible to reach a mutual understanding like that of the early times, and it was a very beautiful thing, apart from sex, because he stopped attacking me with the usual speeches and with the usual emphasis and I was actually able to feel again that respect for me that had been the rule in the early years.
 
Then the story of the virus intervened which interrupted our travels on Saturdays and Sundays, and I could say that perhaps, at least until now, it was a positive thing because abstinence stimulates desire and then we tried to equip ourselves to do at least a bit of sex on cam, but something unexpected happened, we started talking a lot and it was fine, I mean it was fine for him too. Sex on cam wasn't a stupid thing at all because he was there. I can say that we had found a stable balance much more solid and less problematic than that of the Sunday trips.
 
In days, they say, we will probably be able to resume our travels and I don't know what to do, because resuming the meetings on Saturday and Sunday would probably take away from our relationship the strength of daily dialogue, and, let's face it, this would let emerge many sexual problems which are currently hidden or temporarily removed. I would like to propose him to interrupt our meetings, but be careful, interrupting our meetings does not mean diminishing or devaluating the relationship but exactly the opposite, anyhow I don't know how he could react to a similar proposal. I really don't want him to take it as a rejection of him as a person. I’m afraid that the mutual clarifications and embarrassments will start again and that the level of communication that had been reached in the period of social isolation will be lost. I think I will let him make all the choices he likes better and then I will adapt anyway, because if he didn't feel free he would be uncomfortable. He told me that he can't wait to see me, and I too really can't wait to embrace him again ... In short, I think we will go back to the previous standards and I like it because the real physical contact is another thing, but I fear that our beautiful hours of chat conversation will end up in nothing at all, I'm afraid he can start getting angry at me again, that he may misunderstand the fear of HIV, and now also of the covid; in short I'm afraid everything can go into crisis again. It is a very concrete danger or at least I feel it very concrete, until now the limits of our relationship came from the fact that it was not possible to circulate, but afterwards there will be limits that will be attributed only to me. He will try to make me go beyond those limits, I won't do it and things will fall apart again. I'm almost afraid to start again, I'm almost afraid of him and the fact that he will be disappointed, I come up to think that I made him lose the best years of his life and that basically I’m not able to love him. Sometimes I think that without sex everything would be better and that spontaneity fades over the years, I speak just for myself of course. What do you think about, Project?

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  A GAY COUPLE DIVIDED BY THE COVID RED AREA
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-11-2020, 12:20 AM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Email dated March 13, 2020.
 
Hi Project,
I am writing to tell you my and my boyfriend's story in these terrible days of the virus. I can tell you that this thing, which risks becoming a worldwide disaster and which you would do well to try to contain by any means, has also involved my life and especially that of my boyfriend. I use invented names to respect privacy: I will be called Peter and Paul.
I start from afar. We have known each other for several years, I work in the IT field and he is a doctor. We have been together for more than 10 years, we met in a completely random way because we had friends in common. He lives in northern Italy and  I’m in central-south. In practice we have dreamed of living together for a long time but it has never been possible. He has family situations that don’t allow him to go too far, I could do it, I could go to him, but this would create other difficulties and therefore somehow we got organized, I don't work on Saturday, he had flexible shifts and had, on average, a free Saturday out of two, therefore, leaving my home on Friday after 20.00 and traveling all night, I usually was able to get where he lives early on Saturday morning, and he was there waiting for me at the station, we used to go together for breakfast in a beautiful bar and then drove to a small house that his parents had at the foot of the Alps, in a large meadow, which was often covered in snow in winter and in summer was of a unique and incredible green like an emerald, near the house there was a small fountain of cold and clean water, we unloaded our bags at home and walked around in beautiful places that he knew like his pockets, in the evening we could have our intimacy in an unimaginable silence. The following day we used to go on a few more excursions and then he used to take me back to town to the railway station where I had to take the train back home. It is true that we saw each other more or less twice a month and that in practice it was always me the one who had to take the train back and forth, but those Saturdays and Sundays were so wonderful that had the power to give sense to my whole life. Paul and I really love each other, I don't know how I happened to meet him but I consider myself totally lucky, he is a sweet, generous guy who works for others, when on Sunday mornings we go to have breakfast in the mountain village, they all embrace him very warmly and you can see that they love him. He tells me he is happy to be with me and when I hear him say these things I fill myself with pride.
 
But let's get to the facts. Now he is finished in the red zone. For practically a month I have only seen him on Skype, he works in the hospital and we only get in touch late at night when he comes home and contacts me. Since last year he lives alone, he is no longer with his family, even if he lives very close to them. He has his own house and when he arrives home very tired he starts chatting with me. He understands the seriousness of the situation, because he sees it every day and tells me that people don’t understand and minimize but that it is a disease which can decimate the world, but beyond these speeches he doesn’t go. I have a damned fear that Paul could become infected but I can't talk to him about it, he tells me that he doesn't want to hear those speeches and that he must do his duty because if even the doctors run away, sick people are left to themselves and they have no means to defend themselves. He always asks me about me, what I do, where I go, mutual friends but he doesn't want to talk about his work, he just avoids the topic, it is evident that he too is afraid but on one side he cannot be afraid and on the other he doesn’t want to give up. He only tells me that he is tired, that shifts are exhausting but that he must go on anyway because it is too important. Sometimes I feel him happy and he hints at something that has gone well. Paul is not a machine, he participates very emotionally in the fate of his patients. When there are new government decrees, we start reading them together to try to understand exactly all the rules they contain. If I mention that certain prevention measures can be excessive, he attacks me (albeit gently) and tells me that I don’t understand because I don't deal with those things and that certain measures are absolutely indispensable. He brings me China as an example, China risked disaster but with very rigid measures has managed to contain the infection. Here things are more difficult because among the people there is a lot of unconsciousness, a lot of foolishness, they think that the worst has already passed while it has yet to begin. He tells me that times will be longer than people imagine and he recommends me a thousand times to observe all the rules of prudence: “Wash your hands! Avoid crowd! etc. etc .”. When I told him that my company had started teleworking he calmed down. In fact, the work of a computer scientist can also be done at home or on platforms that allow multi-conferences, for us it is easy and we also have the means to do these things. Paul worries about me, but I worry about him and if in the evening he is late, I panic, but until now he has always come. He repeats that he is careful, of course, because he puts into practice all the security measures that in the hospital are very tight for doctors and nurses and this is the only way he has in order to reassure me.
 
In short, Project, so far for the two of us it has gone quite well, but nobody knows how long it will last and then we must put our soul in peace and hope that things will not become explosive and that he will not end up in the number of infected people or worse. There is a lot of anxiety on both sides but he cannot admit it.
 
Who knows how many couples have been divided by the virus! As I would like to hug Paul, now we only do the gesture on cam but sooner or later we will hug again and it will be beautiful. I conclude by wishing everyone involved to be able to get out of it as soon as possible and in the best possible way. Thanks also to you, Project, of course you can use this email as you like better.
 
Peter
________________

Email dated March 24, 2020.

Hi Project.
 
I wrote to you a few days ago, I think you will remember Peter and Paul. I am writing to you in the long moments of emptiness when I cannot get in contact with Paul and I find myself alone to reflect on what is happening.
 
The general situation of the epidemic would let anyone to begin a rethinking of their whole life, for those who have lost parents or grandparents or other relatives or friends the situation is terrible, they see the plan of a life vanish in a few days, death upsets families in the more violent and unexpected way, but for me and Paul the situation is fortunately not so dramatic, I’m I am worried about him, I know he’s prudent and very scrupulous but very little is enough to make a difference.
 
As for me, certainly the least directly exposed, I began to question many of my certainties, I feel much more fragile than before, I’m devaluing a lot of things that I previously considered fundamental, such as economic security and a broad possibility to make my choices but I feel weak because I’m exposed to the risk of losing Paul and it would be a tragedy for me that I don't even dare to think about.
 
The father of one of my friend's died of the virus and two other friends of mine have a relative in the hospital. Many are afraid and try to keep going day by day as they can, because they must also work to survive. I work from home, I don't take serious risks, at least for the moment, but I’m worried about Paul, I think of him at all times of the day because he is right on the front line and I feel him exhausted from fatigue and downcast for what he has to see every day and that when he talks to me he systematically tries to omit.
 
I have always loved him, but seeing how he strives for the good of others to the point of exhaustion I begin to consider him as half a saint, and I think I will never be at his level. In these days he saw many people die, he tried to give them comfort as it was possible and as long as it was possible, but then he saw those people whom he had tried to save in any way die terribly. He tells me that for him now death is not only a daily reality but something he must see several times a day. When someone comes out of the intensive care ward, he feels happy and in fact sometimes it is almost a miracle.
 
He was even before an excellent, generous, selfless guy, but now I see him in a different atmosphere and, if possible, I love him even more than before, because I saw him at work, I saw his moral dimension. Yesterday he asked me to say a prayer for him, and I got scared and I asked him if he was positive and he said no, he asked me for a prayer to help him go all the way and not give up, he needed a greater strength, or better a consolation, I think, to be able to transmit it to all the people it tries to cure every day.
 
Today I tried to pray for him and I did it, but it’s something I never do, that’s why probably in my prayer there was something selfish, I prayed not to lose him, because for me he’s as essential as the light of the sun, but he had asked me for something different, that is, he asked me to pray for him to have the strength to go on. I know that he is taking serious risks and I’m very scared and it also seems right to me to ask the Lord not to take him away from me, even if we are a gay couple, because we really love each other.
 
Tonight I feel very agitated, sometimes at night I can't sleep, I miss him, I miss him damn but I know that he has his duty to follow and that he will do it to the end. I have never seen anyone die, obviously I have seen sometimes dead people, but I have never seen anyone die, but he sees these things every day and I think it is precisely seeing suffering and death that gives him a very strong push to do what he does.
 
Yesterday he told me that a lady who had gone out of the intensive care ward and that he had been assisting for days had given him a wooden rosary and told him that she would pray for him and his girlfriend, he was moved and told the lady that he didn’t have a girl but a guy because he was gay and the lady told him that it was fine all the same and that she would pray for his boyfriend, because Paul was a good guy and he could give so much to his boyfriend. Then the lady started to cry, because she had a son more or less the age of Paul. When he told me this story he had a voice broken by emotion! How can you not love a man like Paul? I would have hugged him strongly! I would have lifted him off the ground to make him feel that I love him! I’m very upset and anxious, Project, but for me living these days is a very profound experience that is changing my life.
 
Peter
___________________
 
Email dated March 30, 2020.

Hi Project,
today the data of the Civil Protection are comforting, I should be more calm and instead I feel very agitated and I can't refrain, Paul works tonight, I heard him in the early afternoon, he tends to calm me down, to reassure me, but when I hear the news and they say that other doctors have died, I get terror, terrible anxiety and I think there may be him too. He tells me that even if he catches the virus, he shouldn't take huge risks because he is young and mortality for those of his age is low, but many of his colleagues have tested positive and many have also died. He has no doubts, he must go on, he must put aside all emotions to maintain the highest possible level of self-control. He always tells me that he hopes that all this frightening adventure can change many absurd ways of reasoning. He quoted me a phrase from Pope Francis that struck him a lot, because that's what he always thought: "We thought we would always stay healthy in a sick world". I clearly feel that Paul is tired, exhausted, I feel it because until about a month ago we used to talk a lot on skype, now we speak less because he needs to sleep and I leave him quiet, but when I close the call I begin to be assaulted by despair, I'm afraid, I'm bloody afraid. People begin to relax and think that they are now getting out of it, but Paul continually repeats to me that this is not the case, that the situation can get out of hand very easily and that we could start again as before and worse than before. He repeats that nothing has changed from them yet and that nothing will change for several days, he says at least three weeks. Now they have a little more means than in the first days, if there is something that makes the difference, if anything, it is just that, it is always a struggle but a little less desperate. People continue to die exactly as before even though doctors can at least say they have done everything they could. Paul tells me that to return to acceptable levels the number of ICU patients should decrease by at least 50%, but it will take time and people will continue to die. He thinks of many other countries where there is no public health service that can react like ours and tells me that mortality will necessarily be much higher there. By now we stay on a video call at least for one hour and a half a day, I see him tired, much thinner than usual but nevertheless he is also calm, I don't know how he manages to be calm, it is evident that he is aware of doing something fundamental, he tells me that the thing that is more difficult for him is not to let himself be overwhelmed by failures, that are many, many. I don't sleep, Project, I ask God to save him but when I do it I have a thousand doubts, why him and not the others too? What's the point of praying? Why do catastrophes like this epidemic happen? Or maybe we notice the disasters that upset the world only when they happen to us. I can't even pray, it seems to me an act of selfishness, because I ask for something for myself, while perhaps we should just say: "your will be done" even if we don't understand the meaning of it or refuse to understand it because it affects us personally. Sometimes I find myself making absurd thoughts, almost trying to make a contract with God: He saves my Paul and I give up sex, but then it seems to me a kind of stupid market, if I think that in order to have Paul unscathed I have to give up to sex, it means that after all I also think that sex between us is a negative thing, but I don't think it at all, because it's not like that, and then I don't have to ask anything for me, it will be what it will be, and it will be accepted anyway, although it may be something terrible, as tens of thousands of people accepted it. In certain moments I’m also less afraid of death, of my personal death, I say, because I see it less as a personal drama and more as a collective destiny and I would say almost natural. I can't take it anymore, Project, I think of Paul at all times, I try to imagine what he is doing at that moment and I dream that the nightmare will end as soon as possible and that we can go back to his house at the foot of Alps together, but all this still seems to me damned far and uncertain. Think about me too, if you can, Project, reading your emails helps me to move forward with less anguish.
Obviously you can make use of this email as you wish.
I hug you.
Peter
_______________

Email dated May 9, 2020.

Hi Project,
I tell you right away, to prevent you from worry,  that "now" it is all quiet, but Paul got through some bad moments, and you can imagine how I felt. Between me and Paul there is a binding agreement: if there is any serious problem we must both know it and we must face it together. In our pre-covid life it has always been like this, so I knew very well that he would let me know how things really were, on Thursday April 2, he calls me at a strange time, in the morning, he tells me that he has a little cough but "at the moment" he has no fever, but he confesses to me that he is worried, so the fear that it may be covid is already in his head, he tells me that he had asked for the pharyngeal swab that will be done within two hours, results should arrive within the next 24 hours. He doesn’t try to tell me it's not covid, instead he tries to prepare me for the idea that it is really covid, he is not afraid because, he explains, now the doctors are starting to have a bit more clear ideas on how to handle the matter. He tells me: "I would have preferred to avoid this experience, but we'll get out of it!" In practice, he takes the test result for granted. The cell phone call doesn't last long, because they call him almost immediately for the swab. A quarter of an hour later he tells me that they won't let him go to the ward waiting for the result of the swab and that he thus will go home immediately and will call me on Skype just got home.
He calls me on skype and asks me about me, he tells me that he has "no fever yet”, but that he has a cough that suggests that it could be covid. We talked a bit, then I had to do my online work shift and we said goodbye. At 20.30 I called him back, he said he had a little fever, but that he had with him all the medicines needed, in practice he had already foreseen the evolution of that angry cough. I ask him how much fever he has and he tells me 38.5, but he says that he has "good" saturation, I ask him how much and he tells me "95" that for one his age he is not good at all, but he is not distressed by this fact. He alerted the hospital and they asked if he needed anything and he replied "no for now". He tried to explain to me what therapy he would follow, but I was unable to understand his speech, was hearing him coughing and I didn't want him to tire too much.
In our conversation, just to not tire him, I spoke almost continuously while he limited himself only to listen and I told him "our story" from the beginning, he was happy to hear it, he felt pampered, object of affectionate attention, and he needed all this very much precisely because he was sick. He took his medicines, then he said to me: "always saturation 95, but the temperature is 38.9 and I feel tired, maybe it's better to take an antipyretic." He took the antipyretic and 40-50 minutes later the temperature dropped to 38, the saturation was always 95 and he was a little breathless. He told me he wanted to try to get some sleep and that he set the alarm on at 3:00 and would call me back. I let him sleep, but, Project, you can't imagine what I was feeling inside, I was stretched like a violin string, wakeful and with wide eyes, I was unable to close my eyes waiting for 3.00. At 3.01 he called me, told me that the saturation was always 95 with some ups and downs and that the fever was stabilized at 38. He had taken other medicines and thought he would try to get some rest again. He would call me back at 7.00. This time I was, if I can say so, a little more peaceful.
At 7.00 he did not call me and I have been anxious for more than an hour because he was not answering my cell phone calls, then he called me shortly before 8.15 am and he said that one of his colleagues had come to see him and had told him that the swab was positive and that since the saturation was always on 95 and this could tire him it would have been good to take a little oxygen, at 2 liters per minute, even a little to support the heart. They said they would bring the oxygen to him within a couple of hours, not a compressed gas cylinder but a liquid gas cylinder that would last much longer, more or less 5-6 days. The fever was 38.3 now, several hours after the antipyretic. He told me that he felt tired and that he would try to rest waiting for the oxygen, he added that he would call me as soon as he started taking oxygen.
What he had told me was serious but all in all not distressed, but other times he had told me that the worst moments come after a few days and I was very agitated. Shortly after 9.00 he calls me back and tells me that with oxygen at 2 liters per minute, which is all in all low, he feels much less evanescent, that he is continuing the therapy and that he is monitored by his colleagues doctors. He tells me that with oxygen he also feels like getting up and walking, whereas before he could only stay in bed and feeling nevertheless very dizzy and fatigued. In the afternoon he did himself the ECG  and told me it was good. During the day he didn’t resume antipyretics and the temperature didn’t go above 38.4, the saturation “with oxygen” was at 98, therefore good, it oscillated a little but little and the values were on average high. Anyhow I continued to hear the cough exactly as before. When he was speaking through headphones I was able to hear the hiss of the oxygen coming out of the inhaler. I'm not going to tell you about everything that happened and everything we said to each other hour by hour.
April 4 was the most difficult day, the temperature, in the evening, went up to 38.9 and he had to take another antipyretic, but that things were at risk of taking a bad turn one could understand it from the saturation that even "with oxygen" had fallen to 95-96 (but perhaps a little more 96 that 95), I was very worried, he less than me and it reassured me a lot. We got in touch 4 times during the night, I was afraid that the situation could get worse at any moment, it has been the worst night. On Sunday morning, that is, the following day, the situation seemed stable, but Paul was not well at all. He often measured saturation, but until 5 o'clock in the afternoon no change was seen, fever always very high (he didn't want to take antipyretics before the fever reached 39 but the fever was always slightly lower).
In the late evening (of Sunday) things started to improve, the temperature, without antipyretic, did not exceed 38 and sometimes even fell below 38 and the saturation slowly rose and gradually abandoned that limit value of 95. Monday 7 temperature began to drop around 37.5 and Paul received another oxygen supply. In the next two days the improvement was constant, Paul preferred not to start talking of "healing phase", and when I spoke about it he said it was too early and that to have a relative certainty it was necessary to wait three or four more days.
On the morning of April 10 (Friday) Paul took off the oxygen while talking to me and half an hour later he measured the saturation and it was 97 "without oxygen", now finally an acceptable value, I asked him how he felt and he said " much better, I breathe in a satisfying and trouble-free way even without oxygen. " During the same day the fever disappeared completely and in the evening the saturation began to oscillate between 98 and 99, a sign that things, at the lung level, had come back to normal. By now Paul was calm.
On the evening of April 10 he asked that they do the swab and on Saturday 11 they went to his house to do it, he was now clinically healed, the swab was nevertheless still positive, but he wasn't worried about this fact. On April 13 morning they did him the swab again and this time it resulted negative, on April 15 they did him the second swab which was negative again. A few days later he came back to the hospital ward and resumed work with covid patients. It has been two weeks that I will never forget. He then explained to me that it went well and that it could have been much worse than that because he had seen even young people die.
Now he should be immunized, so the covid shouldn't scare him anymore. The two weeks of illness made him lose weight and he was never one of strong build. Looking at him on skype he seemed to have enormous eyes in a face very emaciated, and he has beautiful eyes! When I tell him that the epidemic is about to end, he always tells me that now he is no longer afraid for himself but that people continue to die and that even if there is a decline, the epidemic is not at all extinguished, that there are still too many new positives to say that we are out of it.
A few days ago he told me that they sent a 24-year-old boy to ICU and that he took care of him. Luckily that boy came out of the ICU after a few days and Paul also followed him to the ward and asked him if he wanted to contact someone in a video call, like his parents, but the boy asked Paul to call immediately his boyfriend ,who had been without news for more than 10 days, while the parents had been informed every day. The boy wanted Paul to stay in the room during the video call. The two boys started crying on the phone and then they also involved Paul: "If the doctor wasn't there, who knows where I was now!" At the end of the video call, Paul said to the boy: "but you two really love each other!" The boy's eyes shone. Then Paul went back to intensive care ward. When he told me this story Paul was happy and said to me: “They were really in love! There you really see if anyone loves you! "
As usual you can make use of this email as you wish. Thanks for your response the other time and sorry if I didn't answer you right away.
I hug you.
Peter

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  EXHAUSTED GAY RELATIONSHIPS AND FREE UNIONS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-08-2020, 11:32 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

This post is divided into two distinct sections: 

1) the first is dedicated to the distinction between the behaviors that that are indicator lights of exhausted gay relationships (that is, of the gay relationships that have lost the original momentum and the motivational drive of the early days but, despite everything, continue out of habit or out of reluctance to change perspectives) and the affective requests that can hide behind those behaviors;

2) and the second dedicated to the trend towards free relationships, that is, towards relationships without any legal constraint (without Marriage or Civil Union at the Municipalities' Registry Offices).

The two arguments may seem somewhat heterogeneous but are actually deeply connected.

SYMPTOMS OF EXHAUSTED GAY RELATIONSHIPS AND AFFECTIVE REQUESTS

Interpersonal relationships, even the most lasting ones, over the years, inevitably face wear and tear. Many times these relationships were from the beginning without solid foundations, that is, they were relationships upstream of which there was no instinctive and conscious and above all mutual choice, sometimes they are stories that began, then interrupted, then started again, that for both partners are not an instinctive, at least potentially definitive choice, but one of the possible hypotheses on which a perpetual indecision remains. But even when a story initially has all the necessary requirements to last, daily life, or rather the transcription of the story from the lyrical level of falling in love (assuming that there was a real falling in love at least at the beginning) to that of everyday life brings out weaknesses and critical issues.

Symptoms of attrition are generally small episodes in which each of the two partners manifests forms of intolerance towards the weaknesses of the other or shows judgmental attitudes systematically avoiding any effort of understanding, classic are the behaviors related to the idea that the partner is not quick enough to understand, he cannot do elementary things, he always falls back into the same mistakes. Often the request to have time for oneself is an indicator of the wear and tear of a relationship. Behaviors become standardized, everyone knows exactly what to expect, the speeches are always the same, the mutual reproaches, more or less veiled, are repeated in substantially similar situations, it is as if a script was repeated, the partner person is considered to be lackluster and unattractive, not up to the situation, the talks that could stray from the routine are stopped in the bud and there is room for unexpected reactions, which then can be followed by an internal repentance which, however, is not manifested to the partner for reasons of pride, the insistence on keeping the point, not giving in, not leaving room for the partner is quite evident. 

Even sexual behaviors become more and more standardized, partners no longer try to find a balance that can be satisfactory for both and begin to think that there can certainly be better alternatives than the story that is being lived, even if, in practice, those alternatives do not exist at all. Sex becomes a hurried affair in which everyone relates only to himself, and it is no longer accompanied by an emotional atmosphere full of desire as in the times of falling in love. The interest in the sexuality of the partner gives way to sexual selfishness that reduces the other to an instrument, an object rather than a subject.

This description of the characteristic signals of a worn-out relationship is however only theoretical because it is objectively very difficult to distinguish between such signals and the requests for greater emotional involvement addressed to the partner, and the risk that a wrong interpretation of those behaviors could undermine an important relationship, conditioned only by a communication defect, it is quite concrete. Formal detachment is often not a detachment at all but an affective request. The difference between the two situations lies in the absence of final declarations, that is, in always leaving a door open to the partner, in the case of an emotional request. I give a typical example. Two partners can also go so far as to say big words and indulge in forms of intemperance, but if after the reproaches, for example contained in an email, the email ends with a ILY (I love you) it is evident that the dominant dimension is the emotional one. If after the sprint of pride and the request for autonomy there is an attempt to go back, it is clear that the sprint of pride and the request for autonomy were actually affective requests, they were ways to elicit a response from the partner.

Even in the context of strictly sexual behaviors it is possible and often easy to confuse the characteristic behaviors of a worn down relationship with the requests for greater involvement by the partner. A very typical behavior characteristic of worn out relationships is the sexual unavailability of one of the partners, declaring himself tired, little interested in sex, stressed, etc. etc., or even simply the reduction of the frequency of sexual intercourse. Stress and fatigue can be real and not being episodically available to sexual contact can certainly have objective reasons. Obviously, if saying no becomes systematic it is a sign of rejection, if instead the sexual contact, when it is realized , is truly experienced as a form of deep communication, then saying sometimes no it is not an indication of a worn relationship. In general, it is not a sign of wear and tear of the relationship to try to correct the partner's attitudes by demanding less artificial forms of communication from him. There are people who experience sexuality by mediating it with many words that can sound unnecessary and rhetorical to the partner, in cases of this kind, the request to avoid excessive words is not a refusal of the partner but an attempt to correct him.

Given these clarifications on the difficulty of discerning the signs of wear and tear of a relationship from emotional requests, we take another step forward. What do you do when you realize that the relationship "probably" is about to end? do you stop it immediately? Do you expect the other to do it? Or do you let the passage of time decide the end of the relationship? In any case, you have to think very well before taking action, because often creaking buildings, if properly renovated, withstand time and earthquakes, while new buildings poorly designed collapse at the slightest failure.

There are rare situations in which there are very few doubts and these situations are those in which we must move away from a violent partner or prone to emotional blackmail, or from a partner who identifies sex as a domain and as a reality completely detached from affectivity. But in all other cases, haste is often a bad adviser. It happens that, after instinctive and uncontrolled moments of reaction that lead to decisions that are as quick as they are little thought about, there are second thoughts and attempts to recover situations that are no longer recoverable. The one-minute outburst can lead to the immediate gratification due to the refusal of the other considered not up to situation but in the long run can trigger late and useless regrets. We should never forget that destroying is always much easier than building and that giving your partner one more chance is not a gesture of weakness but often exactly the opposite.
 
COUPLE PROBLEMS AND TREND TO FREE UNIONS

The following analysis refers to the Italian situation and the reported data come from ISTAT, the Italian Institute of Statistics, but the discussion has a much more general validity and certainly applies to all Western European countries and also to North American countries.

In the heterosexual world, when couples are stabilized by the bond of marriage, especially when there are children, the problems related to the crisis of the couple can be truly enormous even from a legal point of view, for the custody of the children and for the economic aspects related to communion of goods, when the marriage took place under the communion of goods regime, or when family relationships overlap with legal relationships related to the ownership of the family business or professional studies. For gays, complications of this type are absolutely exceptional. These problems that could have arisen even for gay couples united by a Civil Union pact, in reality did not arise, because Civil Unions have a much weaker bond regime than that of marriage, because the Civil Union can be dissolved at the simple request of only one of the two contracting parties, which, it was believed, would have made the Civil Union a reality very appreciated by the population. In reality, Civil Unions, despite the very light bond regime, have been and still are a very little widespread reality and this not so much for the fact that homosexual couples do not yet have the social approval that characterizes marriage, but because, both in the heterosexual context and in the gay sphere the model of free relationships is increasingly gaining ground, that is, of unions absolutely without legal sanctions.

I quote here below a ISTAT Report of November, 20, 2019.

"In 2018, 2,808 civil unions (between same-sex couples) were established at the registrars of Italian municipalities. These must be added to those already established during the second half of 2016 (2,336), the year of entry into force of the Law May,20, 2016, no. 76, and during the year 2017 (4,376). As expected, after the peak immediately following the entry into force of the new law, the phenomenon is now stabilizing. The prevalence of couples of men is also confirmed in 2018 (1,802 unions, 64.2% of the total), albeit gradually decreasing (73.6% in 2016, 67.7% in 2017). 37.2% of civil unions were established in the Northwest, followed by the Center (27.2%). Lombardy is in the lead with 25%, followed by Lazio (15.1%), Emilia-Romagna (10.0%) and Tuscany (9.4%).The civil unions established in Italy in 2018 are 4.6 per 100 thousand inhabitants: ranging from 7 in Lazio, Lombardy and Tuscany to about 0.5 per 100 thousand in Calabria, Basilicata and Molise. The attractive role of some metropolises emerges with particular evidence. In 2018, in fact, 32.7% of the civil unions occurred in Italy were concentrated in the big cities: at the top of the ranking are Rome (290 unions, 10.3%) and Milan (257 unions, 9.2%) ; the share of civil unions of couples of men is particularly high in Milan (equal to 75.5%) compared to Rome (66.9%). Considering the incidence of civil unions on the total resident population, in 2018 18.7 civil unions per 100 thousand inhabitants were established in Milan, in Rome 10.1. Among the cities of the South, only Naples and Palermo show values above 1 per 100 thousand inhabitants."
 
I would add that civilly united homosexual couples have an average age of 49.5 years if male and 45.9 years if female, that is, homosexual couples are non-young couples. If we consider that in 2018 there were 195,778 marriages celebrated in Italy and 2,808 civil unions, we immediately notice that the same-sex civil unions were just over 1,4% compared to marriages, even if in recent years the number of marriages has drastically decreased in favor of free unions, a phenomenon on which we must stop to reflect.
 
Also from ISTAT we know that:
 
"The comparison between the data from the 1991 population census and those from 2018 shows the profound changes that have taken place. Among individuals aged 15-64, in the face of a slight drop in the population (-309 thousand), married people decrease (3 million and 843 thousand less), especially for the benefit of single and unmarried people (+3 million and 90 thousand) and, to a much lesser extent, of the divorced (over 972 thousand more).
 
The decrease and postponement of marriage, in place for over forty years, partially offset by the growth of free partnerships, led between 1991 and 2018 to a sharp decline in married couples, especially in the 25-34 age group (from 51.5% to 19.1% men, from 69.5% to 34.3% women). Single people go from 48.1% to 80.6% and single girls from 29.2% to 64.9%. In the 45-54 age group, almost one in four men never married while almost 18% of women are unmarried. "
 
From the above data, it is clear that the model of the Free Union, that is, of the couple's union, straight or homosexual, without any legal sanction, is spreading very decisively among the Italian population. Marriage, as far as hetero people are concerned, and civil unions, as far as gays are concerned, are seen more as a useless or even harmful bond, than as a protection of the couple's relationship, whose existence can neither be protected nor favored by legal constraints of any kind.

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  GAY SEXUAL CONDITIONING AND COUPLE DIALOGUE
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-07-2020, 11:02 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

I often hear people speaking about gay sexuality, I myself have used and still use this concept and I do it by adapting to a widespread and radical simplification of the concept of sexuality. Descartes begins his "Discourse on the method" by stating that, as for "common sense", "everyone thinks they are so well endowed with it, that even those who are more difficult to satisfy with regard to any other good do not want or desire more common sense than they have. " The same could be said for the "knowledge of sexuality", to whoever I ask for an answer I find people who are convinced that they have a very clear concept of sexuality. However, gathering these answers I do not find that variety that one would be legitimate to expect given the plurality of individual and social conditions, I’m instead faced with rather homogeneous answers, far from individual experience and inspired above all by mass media, television, cinema, readings and, to a large extent, by the use of internet pornography. In essence, the common concept of sexuality represents an abstraction, radically simplifying and trivializing, capable, precisely because of its generality, of being acceptable to the great majority of people.
 
Individual sexuality, which is not an abstract concept but a reality that permeates the whole individual, is linked to many factors, first of all to personal experience, which is absolutely unique and unrepeatable even if it can be studied with standard sociological categories based on age and social conditions. Among the fundamental factors that condition personal experience, family education and sometimes even religion must be placed at the top. The intertwining of the various lines of development of the individual experience is extremely complex and, beyond the abstract or theoretical concepts, leads the individual people to "live sexuality" in very different ways.
 
Here then appears a first substantial distinction: the concept of sexuality of an individual is not what is stated in response to a specific question, but what is embodied in that individual's behavior. Sexuality is not an abstract concept but a reality that lives in individual experience. Which means that knowing and understanding the sexuality of another person is an objectively very difficult thing, because to share these contents you need an atmosphere of deep intimacy and mutual trust that allows you to overcome the blocks that normally make it impossible a serious dialogue on these topics. Why is it so difficult to speak seriously not of sexuality in general but of one's own sexuality? The fear of being judged, of being classified, marginalized and rejected, is the basis of any resistance to true dialogue on these issues and is generally a well-motivated fear.
 
There are two prerequisites for any serious dialogue not about sexuality in general but about one's own individual sexuality. The first prerequisite is the radical elimination of any judgmental attitude, that is, of any preconception, but this prerequisite is still formal and almost professional, in the sense that any psychologist assumes or should assume a non-judgmental attitude. The second assumption is substantive and completely different and consists in accepting reciprocity as a fundamental rule of dialogue on individual sexuality. Accepting reciprocity means understanding that at these levels there can be no roles, there cannot be a professional detachment but an equal dialogue must be accepted. If the dialogue is not perceived as equal, it will never reach the deepest contents of consciousness and their manifestations in sexuality. A level of communication such as that described can be reached sometimes, but not as a rule, between lovers who are now well beyond the phase of sexual experimentation and who have a very strong mutual affection, but can also be reached sometimes in the context of very close friendly relationships (without involvement of sexuality).
 
It should be noted that the depth of a relationship is measured by the quantity and quality of information about ourselves that we are available to provide to the other. In a relationship of superficial friendship we never talk about affective life or we talk about it with very general and, so to speak, common sense categories, in a relationship of close friendship, emotional and even sexual confidences become frequent, in long friendships supported by concrete evidence of mutual reliability, emotional and sexual confidence can become total, that is, it can lead two friends to have no secrets from each other. Obviously all this happens very rarely but sometimes it happens.
 
What does it emerge from the comparison of individual sexualities? What emerges is essentially the category of complexity. What we consider simple and spontaneous manifestation of the sexual instinct, in reality is not at all simple or spontaneous, but is the result of the interaction of an extremely specific genetic-epigenetic substrate with the experience of the person as a whole, that is, with a plot of infinite correlations, for which it is difficult to identify even very general taxonomic categories.
 
I will try to limit the discussion to the gay area only. If there is truly something common in the experience of all homosexuals, this common element is nothing else than becoming and then being aware that the ways of living the affectivity and sexuality of two gay people can be radically different. More or less all gays identify being gay with falling in love with guys rather than girls, or more generally with having sex with guys rather than girls. At this level, in reality extremely general if not generic, it is easy to find consensus, when however we try to understand what it means for every single person to fall in love and have sex with a guy, that is when we move from abstract to concrete, abstract categories lose their meaning and individual stories come into play, stories strictly individual although often similar to those of other gays who find themselves in similar personal and social situations. Thus the importance of the only true instrument of knowledge of the other emerges, which is his individual story, I'm speaking exactly of the individual story, that is, of a real experience, just as it is perceived by the individual who has lived that story and  brings deep traces of it in his memory, I’m non speaking of the story told to other people and more or less unconsciously reinterpreted by the one who lived it. 
 
One of the intrinsic limitations of any psychotherapy consists in the fact that in a professional relationship, if the therapist can guarantee non-judgmental attitudes or, better, behaviors, he certainly cannot in any case open up to a substantial reciprocity, which, alone, could lead to the emergence of the profound contents of consciousness. The therapist, therefore, starts not from the knowledge of the individual story of his patient just as the patient experiences it, but from the representation that the patient gives of that story to the outside, in a communication in which the guarantee of professional secrecy can in no way to make up for the absence of reciprocity. In a sense, we offer a deeper knowledge of ourselves to our lover or our dearest friend than to the psychotherapist because with the lover or dearest friend the condition of reciprocity can really exist.
 
In the early 1900s, Havelock Ellis was already fully aware of the complexity of the homosexual reality and of the substantial impossibility of building a theory of homosexuality that could have a minimum of concrete utility, therefore he preferred to abandon traditional attitudes and organize his book as a collection of 39 real cases, told in the words of the protagonists themselves. The 39 stories, which make up about half of the book, allow the reader to understand the complexity of the homosexual world and then to acquire, even if through a book, a little real experience not of what "homosexuality" is at the theoretical level but of what can be the life of 39 homosexual people with different personalities and experiences. In this sense, more than a book or a scientific article, a novel or a story can help to understand the reality of the life of gays as individuals, which is what matters, and not as a category.
 
In the 21st century, the role of novels and short stories is largely taken on by films, short films and videos, which use a different  language but convey similar contents. In recent years, more or less for ten years now, there has been a noticeable flowering of gay videos, which generally deal with the major issues of gay life in a substantially serious and correct way. Obviously you cannot ask a video of an average length of twenty minutes what you can ask a novel or a feature film, but some of these videos, even if short, are small masterpieces. Generally these videos are quite well made, one feels the hand of expert directors and one understands that the production is not of a reductive amateurish type.
 
These videos can constitute and sometimes really constitute a true form of affective-sexual education, capable of counteracting the models spread by pornography, because in gay themed videos the emotional and psychological dimension is present in a serious way. Unfortunately, gay-themed videos are still produced, at a substantially professional level, providing very particular gay reality models that risk favoring deviant associations in the mind of the viewer, such as the association homosexuality-drug or homosexuality-violence or homosexuality-depression or worse homosexuality-mental pathology or homosexuality-crime. These associations are the result of preconceptions and suggest that the authors of the stories, the producers and directors are not themselves homosexuals and limit themselves to making videos following common prejudices.
 
Gay themed videos written and made by homosexuals are generally short glimpses of homosexual life and are extremely varied, they are therefore a very powerful educational tool, easy to access and capable of highlighting the most classic themes of gay affectivity and sexuality and the gay point of view, in its most complex and varied articulation, on many issues that affect family relationships, homophobia, dialogue among gays and couple life.
 
Let's go back, however, to the complexity of gay sexuality. A deep emotional relationship with your partner allows not only verbally, but also through the sharing of sexuality, a fair comparison of experiences and the emergence of all the contents of individual memory, even the most hidden. This means that a good gay couple relationship can be more useful than psychotherapy because it allows, in a context of reciprocity, to speak freely about one's own sexuality and above all to live it without taboos.
 
We need to clarify a concept, as simple as it is forgotten: sexuality can be lived and is often lived in a completely mechanical way, without deep affective involvement, and the sincerity between the partners may become something optional. The lack of sincerity reaches the point of legitimizing the betrayal and to hide from the partner some elements that would radically change his opinion on us. Even in situations where there is no betrayal and it is not a question of hiding "behaviors" that could change the judgment of the partner on us, there are other elements that can be and are often kept silent, these are the non-standard sexual fantasies that may not be accepted or understood by the partner, this is the case of pedophile fantasies even if they have never been put in practice, but it is also the case of incestuous sexual fantasies, or intergenerational, but the listing could also extend to other sexual fantasies, less alarming but quite uncommon.

Another category of experiences is almost always kept silent, even if it is facts that should in no case undermine the relationship with the partner, I refer to having suffered sexual violence or harassment in childhood or in early adolescence. The episodes of violence or sexual abuse of minors, almost always in the family environment or by regular visitors of the family environment, are unfortunately much more common than you can imagine. All these elements and many others can have a profound influence on an individual's sexual behavior and on many other aspects of his personality. The couple relationship, if it is really a love relationship, can be the best way to achieve a substantial serenity of life.
 
Sharing sexuality, sexual freedom in intimacy with your partner, feeling accepted for what you are, after showing yourself for what you are, is a unique opportunity for gratification and emotional exchange, which is truly able to change the life of an individual, provided that couple sexuality is truly an exchange of love and not a substantially selfish rite to exorcise solitude.

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  THE MEANING OF GAY SEX WITHOUT COMMITMENTS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-05-2020, 12:05 AM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

This post is dedicated to the so-called "gay sex without commitments" or to those sexual contacts that do not take place within a stable couple relationship, that is, they are not part of a structured relationship.
Two elements appear in this definition: the “stable couple” and the “structured relationship”, which must be further clarified.
 
It is common practice to compare stable couples with unstable (short term) ones and structured relationships to unstructured ones, commonly called free relationships. The legacy of the traditional marriage concept is evident in these distinctions, marriage intends to structure and legitimize a couple's relationship around the presumed indissoluble mutual fidelity which also implies a social meaning. In the case of marriage, the union is born indissoluble, or at least with the claim, more or less credible, of being indissoluble, but indissolubility is only a hypothesis that is taken for granted, because indissolubility manifests itself over time, in substance indissolubility, which in itself is by no means an obvious thing, is favored, if not actually induced and obliged by the structure that connotes the marriage bond.
 
The "social", not "couple" dimension of marriage is clearly revealed in the celebration of the wedding ceremony which is a social ceremony. Structuring a couple's reaction means conforming to a codified and socially recognized standard, that is, inserting one's life as a couple partner in a legal-social structure that in theory protects it but which risks distorting it completely.
 
Today free relationships, even in the hetero field, are many, even in couples with children. This, in general, does not mean that one renounces inserting the couple life into a wider social structure, but simply that one intends to avoid legal constraints. Removing legal constraints from couple life means safeguard the freedom to interrupt couple life (without prejudice to the rights of children) without legal complications, should the need to do so be felt.
 
For a gay couple, for whom insertion into a wider social structure can be very problematic, it is certainly difficult if not impossible to accept even very weak legal formalizations, such as civil unions, but it is very often necessary or at least very appropriate to avoid the socialization of the relationship beyond a very limited and reliable circle of friends. In essence, the great majority of gays, and especially young gays, do not aspire to any legalization of the couple's relationship and to the inclusion of the couple's life in a social dimension with not well defined borders.
 
Many gays, after having dreamed of an almost matrimonial life as a couple and having collected a more or less long series of illusions and disillusions, begin to convince themselves that those who promise sublime things are generally unreliable and that the risk to get involved with individuals of this kind in very structured stories, that are or can became sometimes real traps, is concrete and also probable. Those who, on the other hand, do not promise anything and indeed point out that they do not promise anything and consequently do not require any kind of a priori commitments, can, in the long run, prove to be much more serious and reliable people than they seemed at the beginning. A weak bond, both in the sense of unstructured on a social level, and in the sense of light, partial and non-totalizing, can prove to be very stable, while maintaining its characteristics of absence of structure and lightness, precisely because it is in fact a pure couple relationship on which no pressure or expectation, by the social environment or bay partner, can be loaded.
 
Generally we tend to distinguish simple friendships (without sex) from sexualized friendships, in which some sexual contact can also occur. If it is true that not all friendships last over time, it is equally true that not all sexualized friendships last over time. What gives both the ability to last? And here the answer is immediate. With or without sex, lasting friendships are those in which there is a real emotional foundation. It should be stressed that the sexualization of affectivity aims to maintain the relationship, apparently, on a purely or essentially sexual level, because a contact purely sexual is or seems less demanding than an important affective relationship.
 
It should also be clarified that the sharing of sexuality inevitably leads to the sharing of several other aspects of emotional life and individual history: illusions, frustrations, moments of depression but also moments of joy. Those who are involved in a relationship of this kind do not fear it, they have no reason to run away, they know that no obligation, either social or towards the partner, will derive from it, they don't feel forced,
don't feel judged even by their friend, but rather they feel free and this is enough to make them feel deeply gratified.
 
Of course these relationships have nothing of the fusion of two lives, the partners are not two people who share every aspect of their life. Each of the two retains its full autonomy, there are no legal or economic constraints, there is no obligation of cohabitation, cohabitation can also exist but it is an absolutely free and revocable choice at any time. The circles of friends can very well remain completely separate, the relationships with the family of origin of the partner are a pure possibility which often is not followed up because a different behavior would authorize expectations and interferences that in a couple relationship should be avoided.
 
I do not intend to make the apology of free unions, which, as it is easy to deduce from the statistics on straight marriages and gay civil unions, are progressively gaining ground compared to legalized forms of union, in fact, sexual contacts without commitments are not even a free union, which however postulates some explicit assumption of commitments.
 
Sexual contacts without commitments very often are such only formally, because the expression "without any commitment" does not prevent that such a contact can at least involve the moral commitment of the partners to respect each other. Formally there are no constraints and there are no expectations on either side, but over time it is possible, not to say probable, that behind a purpose declared as only sexual and "without commitments" there is actually something more, that, under the protection of the clause "without commitment", can have the possibility to develop spontaneously and without forcing. Those who consciously live this type of experiences, in general, do not tend to transform them into something else, that is, in stable and structured relationships, and for this reason they do not experience any sense of frustration. It often happens that sex, which had been taken as the basic postulate of the relationship, over time becomes only a possible option and leaves room for other content as well.
 
It should be clarified that, just as stable couple relationships are not a generalizable model of gay life, so are not a generalizable model the sexual contacts without commitments”. It is obvious that each has his own genetic and cultural predisposition to one or another type of relationship, but from what I see, now more and more often, the assumption that it is possible to realize one's own affectivity-sexuality only in the context of a stable and structured couple is something that does not correspond to reality. Affective gratification derives neither from the presumed definitive nature of the relationship nor from its social or legal sanction, but exclusively from the presence of a real emotional contact which, when it exists, is spontaneous and whose duration cannot be guaranteed by any legal mechanism of protection.

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  INDUSTRIAL GAY LOVES
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 04-30-2020, 09:44 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Dear Project,
I start from the beginning, I'm almost 27, I always knew I was gay and it was natural for me, never a problem and never a doubt. I had absolutely no problems with it, but the others had them and I could only pay the consequences. I have never been good at school and I have always had a lot of problems for this, but perhaps this also helped me a lot, focusing my parents' attention on school problems more than on the fact that I had no girls around. After my high school diploma, I attended a very specialized semester course and there I did pretty well, even better than the other guys. At the end of the course they called me for an interview in a large Company, and against all my expectations they hired me. My parents didn't see my new job favorably, because I would have had to go out of my region to move to a very distant place and the wages were low and my father would have had to pay for my accommodation near the Company. Anyway, then my father ended up saying yes and I left.
 
I had turned 22 a few months before and I finally felt free, but I was also very scared, I did a six-month internship in the Company and then they confirmed my permanent employment. The real salary was better than what I had supposed and furthermore I had no expenses, because from Monday to Saturday, for lunch, I ate at the Company canteen, but since the industrial production was continuous, there was also a canteen for dinner, and also in the morning for breakfast, but for dinner and breakfast I had to pay, but the costs were very low and the food was good and plentiful. In short, after three months, I told my father that I was able by myself to pay for my accommodation and that he would no longer have to sign for me the monthly money transfer, and he felt very relieved because my parents aren't rich at all.
 
I started to look for a rented house, even a very little but a house that had to be exclusively mine, I found one not very close to the Company, more or less a kilometer and a half, 35 minutes on foot walking briskly, but it was a single house with a small piece of vegetable garden, no more than 400 m2. As soon as I could, even losing some money, I left the room I had rented and moved to my new house. I had discovered that in the Company it was possible to be available to work overtime, I had no family load and with overtime I was able not only to pay for the house but also to put some money aside and do some extra shopping (a camera, and with some effort a new PC).
 
I felt like a king, but I was alone. Obviously in the Company I had started looking around, like all gay guys do, looking for others like me, but frankly they were all much older than me, all or almost married with children. In the department where I worked, the youngest one after me was 36 years old, he was bald and had a belly that came out of his belt and moreover he was probably straight. In the department we used to work hard and had no time to waste, I tried to do my best. I saw that the supervisors sometimes scolded some of the employees who had done their job wrong, but they never scolded me.
 
One day, unexpectedly, the shift supervisor comes to me and tells me that I know how to do my job and that I do it well. I feel very encouraged. In the sector entrusted to me I had noticed that one of the machines that I knew best was not set up in the best way and that there were operations that, with those settings, required much more time and much more human control. It occurs to me that there may be a solution, I say this to the shift supervisor who, however, does not take me too seriously and only tells me that he will talk of it to the engineer responsible for automation. I think he told me so just to say something and from this I deduce that the story is over.
 
Two days later the shift supervisor comes to me and tells me that Engineer Bordin (modified name) wants to talk to me at the end of the shift. I feel very gratified, at the end of the shift I wash my hands and also my face well and go to the Administration Department. The environment is luxurious but without exaggerating, I find the Engineer's office, the secretary, a lady of about 55, tells me that the Engineer will arrive in minutes and lets me in the room to seat. I feel intimidated, there is a computer turned on with drawings of production lines and folders of papers everywhere. After not more than five minutes the Engineer arrives and here I have a heart attack, I was expecting an elderly man and instead he is a beautiful guy who in my opinion is not even thirty years old, he smiles at me immediately, we shake hands, he has a nice warm and strong hand, and then he tells me that the shift supervisor told him that the setting of an industrial machine could be changed and that I had proposed the change, and he asks me what it is. I try to explain it to him, but it is clear that these are things he doesn't understand at all.
 
At one point he asks me: "Are you sure of what you say?" I tell him that I think I'm quite sure of it but that I should do a test, that is, I should reset the machine in the new way and see what happens by letting the machine perform automatically the same work it does now, just to confirm that it is able to do everything automatically. He asks me how long the test could take, I tell him: "At most 10-15 minutes", he tells me to do the test and to let him know if it works. If the shift supervisor has doubts or problems I have to tell him that I have been authorized by engineer responsible for automation. He adds that I have to send him a report on the outcome of the test as soon as possible, then he smiles at me, we shake newly hands and we say goodbye.
 
I rush to the shift supervisor who opens his arms and says to me: "Okay, but we must stop production line for the shortest time possible." We agree that I would have done the test between 3.00 and 3.30 in the night, when the system is operating at a lower speed, just to minimize the effects caused by the interruption of the production line. I go home, I study all the technical manuals, I write the reset program, reread the programs dozens of times, then I mount the simulator on my PC and proceed to start the standard execution of the piece. It seems that everything works perfectly. I load the program on the pen and start writing the report for the Engineer, assuming that everything will work as expected even on the real machine. At half past one in the morning I leave my house and go to the Company. I send the production stop signal for 15 minutes, "due to maintenance" at 3.05 o'clock. I load the reset program, insert a piece to be worked and at 3.09.10 a perfect piece leaves the machine, even better by eye than what was obtained with the old procedure.
 
I leave the machine with my settings and at 3.12.00 I restart the production cycle. I take a piece made with the old technique and the one made with the new one on which I put a drop of red paint. Then I come home, complete the relationship. In practice with the new settings the time was reduced from 7 minutes and 10 seconds to 4 minutes and 10 seconds and there was no sign of work discontinuity on the piece. I go home exhausted but happy. The shift starts at 7.00 am. I go to the shift supervisor, tell him that I did the test and that it went well, he replies that he has seen a some acceleration of the line and tells me that I have done a good job. I ask him if I can go to the Engineer, he says yes and I go.
 
The Engineer is not there but the secretary calls him on his cell phone and tells me to sit down and wait. He arrives after a few seconds, smiles at me, tells me that he is happy to see me and informs me that the shift supervisor has detected a line acceleration of almost 7%. I give him the report, he reads it or better he just looks at it, then he offers me a coffee. I'm afraid he asks me something about school, but he doesn't, we have coffee together, then we talk a little, he asks me how long I've been in the Company, where I live, where I worked before, how I find myself with my work colleagues, I dare to turn the same questions to him and he answers me in a very friendly tone, he trusts me, he tells me that he is 29 years old, that he has been in the Company for three years but is very stressed from work, he doesn't mention wife or children or girlfriends, maybe those are too personal matters, then he asks me for my cell phone number, writes it on my technical report and puts it in the drawer. Then he tells me that he is sorry to have to send me back to the ward because he sees that I’m a very good guy and he dismisses me with a stronger and warmer handshake than usual and that lasts a few moments longer than expected. I go back to my department and feel very excited.
 
The shift supervisor calls me and asks me if I know also another automatic control machine, he explains that there are problems that have never been solved, and he tells me that, when I have time, I could also take a look to that machine. I tell him it's okay.
 
Project, I don’t go further in telling the details, in no more two months all the automatic control machines have been reset and reprogrammed to optimize the production, the times have been reduced by almost 20% and the production standard has improved. Since I’m very young, compared to their standards, my colleagues don’t look at me with envy and the supervisors encourage me a lot. I have been to the Engineer four times in a month and a very particular mutual sympathy has been created, there is only a problem, he is a manager and there is a lot of hierarchy in the company and the rules must be respected.
 
To make the English language speakers understand exactly what follows, I must first explain to them that in Italian, when speaking formally with a person you don’t know and with whom you are not familiar, we don't use the second person of the singular, but the third person of the singular "feminine" also in reference to a man. For example, to a friend you say "today you came to visit me" (that is, you use "you") but in reference to an important person or to a person you don't know, you have to use an expression that in English would sound more or less like this: "She came to see me today" (i.e. you use "she")
 
Well, however, one evening, after a little more than two months from our first meeting, he calls me on the phone using “she” (formal speaking), I think it is for issues related to the machines, but it is not so, he talks about other things, about the life that does not satisfy, about the work that disillusiones and makes you feel stressed, about the time that passes, I think at every moment that when the preambles will be over he will start talking to me about work but it doesn't happen. We are on the phone for over an hour, then he asks me: “Can we use the “you””? ... But only outside the Company, otherwise it could sound strange." It's a request that makes many lights light up in my brain! I reply that it's fine, he tells me his name is Stefano and I tell him my name is Dario. He says to me: “Thanks, Dario, it was really a pleasure to talk to you tonight, you have my cell number, if you call me it's nice, don't forget it!" He says these things in a very hesitant voice and this makes me very tender. I tell him. "Thanks, Stefano, I'll show up shortly, you can count on it!"
 
When I close the phone, my eyes shine, it is clear that Stefano is gay and that between us there is already a special sympathy and furthermore he is a beautiful guy, he doesn’t put me in embarrassment at all,  it's he the one who feels embarrassed with me.
 
He knew my work shifts and I knew his, and we never met within the Company, because it could be embarrassing for both of us, but after another month, we got to the point that we talked on the phone every day and met one day a week, when we were both free. I used to take the bus and go to the second village on the way to the mountain and I had to wait for him just minutes, he usually arrived there by car non more than 10 minutes after me, he parked and we went around the woods, then in the evening he used to take me back home by car. It was precisely in one of these walks that we got to speak clearly, it was all much easier than I had imagined. I said to him: "Well, I think it is up to me to start the topic ... I'm gay and I think I'm falling in love with you ..." He looks at me and smiles with a huge smile, then says to me: "I understood it the second time we met!"
 
Project, don't think that what came next was easy and trouble-free, because it was exactly the opposite. He had a lot of problems about the fact that he was 29 years old and I wasn't 23 yet, but he didn't show his 29 years at all, maybe my age if not even less. For my part, I had a many problems because he was an engineer and was already a manager in the Company and I acted accordingly with it, but he did not feed my problems, he didn’t at all seem to feel superior, rather, he was very shy and self-conscious. He only used to see the difference in age, which anyhow was nothing excessive, and felt guilty, as if he could rob me of my youth, that is, almost as if he could take advantage of me because I’m younger.
 
One day I asked him how much he was earning and he showed me the credit e-mail of his salary. He was earning a lot more than me but not so much more than me. He could not do overtime because his contract did not include office hours but his job was subject only to the evaluation of the C.E.O., well, with his job he earned 60% more than what I could earn by doing all the possible overtime, but even if he didn't have office hours, anyhow he used to stay at Office in the Company for 12-16 hours a day, much more than me! And then he was always stressed by work, by worries and by the fact that the top manager always kept him under pressure.
 
One day we go to the usual country and since the following day is a national holiday we decide to stay there in the hotel, he has been anxious since the morning, he confesses to me that he never had sex with anyone and that he has a "fucking" (a word, that I'd never expected by him!) fear of diseases. I tell him that he does very well to be afraid of diseases and that I too have never been with anyone. He makes me swear. In the evening we go to a "widespread" hotel, that is, in practice they send us to a small separate but perfectly equipped cabin. Stefano is very anxious.
 
We stretched out on the bed fully dressed but it was cold and we turned on the heating. Basically we only talked all night. I thought he had, I don't say female friends but at least male friends and instead he didn't have any, he didn't use to see anyone outside the Company, except me. The parents did not know about his homosexuality and until 29 years he had thought "only" to study and work.
 
When I talked about sex based on what I had learned from Gay Project, he was listening to me with extreme interest. He confessed to me his sexual fantasies: mutual masturbation, "also" oral sex, but no anal penetration, which never had existed in his fantasies and he was worried about this fact because he thought anal penetration was the fixed idea of all gay people. I looked at him in the eyes and told him that I too had never thought of having anal sex, that I had nothing against the thing in itself because people must be able to do what they want. Stefano still had the conception of sex as a forbidden game, the idea that sex was a form of love seemed strange to him, too irreverent compared to his principles.
 
Project, you have been very useful to me, I told him many things you wrote in the Manual and he was more and more perplexed. We slept only from 5.00 until 9.00, because before 9.30 we had to have breakfast in a bar in the village. We walked in the woods for hours and occasionally there was some physical contact, that is, we held hands. He totally left me the initiative but I was afraid to take some false steps, to put him in difficulty. At one point I ask him, "Can I hug you?" He replies with his eyes while smiling and I embrace him. He was shaking, he was really in ecstasy and I was too. I felt the body of a guy who liked to let me embrace him and was happy to be embraced by me, I felt his heart beat very fast, like mine, I felt his breath on my cheek and felt that he was holding me very tightly, we stayed embraced like this for very long minutes, then we broke up, but we didn't kiss, I wanted him to take the initiative but he didn't.
 
When we got home he asked me to show him my house, I was reluctant because everything was messy, but he insisted and then I said yes. He came in and this time he surprised me, he threw himself on my bed and said to me: "What if I sleep with you tonight?" I told him that there was only one bed and he pointed out to me that there was a reclining armchair and he would sleep there, but he needed to stay with me. We prepared a very quick dinner and then the effort of the last two days began to make itself felt: he settled on my bed, obviously fully dressed and I on the reclining armchair, even that time there was no sex at any level because we fell asleep almost immediately.
 
Now Stefano and I have been together for three years, we formally live as singles for work reasons, that is, to keep our relationship completely outside the work environment, but we stay in contact by the phone every day and every week we spend an evening together, then the night, all the next day and also the next night, then the work week starts again, but we manage to spend two nights together every week and I see him happy, now his problems about the fact that he is older than me are completely vanished. It took us more than a year to have the first sexual contacts but then it happened, it was much less simple than I had imagined, but in the end there was an excellent harmony between us also at that level.
 
Unfortunately there is one thing that doesn’t make me feel comfortable and it is the stress that Stefano is subjected to, because he is literally obsessed with work. It is true that he earns more, but in my opinion the game is not worth the candle, if he changed his job he would earn less but he would be much better and we would have more time for us. I have in mind that, if he could, he would change job even at the cost of losing out economically, but at the moment the only alternative would be to be a freelancer, it could be also a concrete possibility, but it is risky and would still keep him constantly anxious.
 
At school I had teachers who were engineers who did little or nothing at all, they earned little but literally did nothing at all! Now I have to try to understand how Stefano could be a teacher, I think it's a bit complicated, but I have to understand if there is a road and which one, then I will have to try to tell him about it, because according to my opinion he wants to feel encouraged by me to take a step like that, because his parents would certainly tell him it's madness.
 
My story ends here, or rather begins here!
I embrace you, Project, even if we don't know each other, and I thank you for all the support you have indirectly given me.
 
Dario

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  GAY COUPLES AND SEXUAL FANTASIES
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 04-06-2020, 01:56 AM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

Mau85 - Hi Project, how are you? It's been a while since we talked
 
Project - Fortunately, everything is pretty good here, and you?
 
Mau85 - Here too, and I could say very well indeed today! Do you remember me?
 
Project - yes, I remember the story with your ex, a story which wasn't actually over because you and your ex kept hearing from each other
 
Mau85 - Yes, he himself, let's call him Andrew, and do you remember anything else? I don't want to test your memory, but I have to understand where to resume the story from
 
Project - I remember that Andrew also had other guys and this fact for you was not at all shocking for you
 
Mau85 - shocking certainly not, in short I would have liked to have him all for myself, but he is like this, he also needs something or better someone else, I think I was afraid that they could take him away from me, that is I was afraid that he would stop loving me because he was in love also with other guys, but I couldn't ask him to leave those guys because he really loved them
 
Project - yes, I remember these things
 
Mau85 - he, however, felt only half satisfied with these guys, not so much from the emotional point of view because after all they respected and loved him, but precisely from the sexual point of view
 
Project - What do you mean? 
 
Mau85 - In the sense that he tried to involve them in his sexual fantasies, which are not really common, but they didn't listen to him and in the end, for him, sex was a very mechanical thing, because it was he who had to adapt. Actually I don't even know what he could have said about himself to those guys but I think he's been quite explicit, as he had been with me, but I don't know exactly. He tried a lot of times to involve me too in his fantasies, but it wasn't so easy to me, in the end I pretended not to understand and tried to do what the other guys used to do, that is, I tried to bring him to my own ground, what in the end really happened every time, even if in the end he was only half satisfied. I have to tell you that seeing that after having sex with me he was not really satisfied put me on a lot of melancholy to the point that I tried to thin our meetings because I expected that he would be disappointed anyway. Project, I saw that you didn't ask me questions to go more deeper and you did well. I just have to tell you that I love Andrew with all my soul, I respect him as a person, he likes sex, has sex with other guys, but I know some of those guys and they are guys who love him.
 
Project - from what you told me it was clear that your relationship with Andrew was serious. There are people who can see your story in a completely different way, it is obvious, for what it may be worth! The important thing is what you think of Andrew, because you know him very well, the rest doesn't worth anything at all.
 
Mau85 - well, I've known him for years, you can't make a traditional couple with him, it's different, but it's not a less serious thing. He needs other guys, I don't, but we love each other anyway. But you already know this and that was not what I wanted to talk to you about, I called you to talk about what happened between me and Andrew on February 29, one Saturday, before this virus affair, when it was still possible to circulate. In short, he calls me and without any preamble he tells me that he is under my house and that he wants to go up. In our language it means that he wants to have sex with me. I have often said no to him, but at that moment I was happy that he had come to me, I had missed him a lot in the last few days. He comes up to my home, you know that I live alone, he tells me he doesn't have condoms, when he comes to me he always has them, I make a puzzled face, as if to say: so what did you come for? He knows very well that for me the idea of having sex with him without a condom is absolutely inconceivable and so he replies: Ok, we don't even touch each other, we'll stay at a distance each in his place two meters away from each other, but you have to come in my fantasies, you have to make me do it for once, at least in fantasy, something that is good for me, ok? I look at him and say ok! Then he adds, but let's get to the end, please, without changing the subject. I tell him it's okay and we masturbated in front of each other while I tell him an erotic story of the kind he likes. At first all the situation sounded strange to me, but he seemed very involved and I went on with the story which in the end seemed quite engaging to me too. I make it short. We got to the end more or less together, we were both very tired. Well, it was the first time he wasn't disappointed, and we hadn't even touched each other. He told me that I was beginning to understand what he needed and that he appreciated very much the fact that I had not tried to escape the matter and do the usual things, then he told me that he hadn't brought condoms on purpose. In general, after our sex meetings, as soon as it's done, he leaves. But on February 29 instead we cooked and dined together and he stayed in my house to sleep. We talked a lot, I saw him calm, not at all frustrated, he joked, he said nonsense, in short it was an incredible evening, before going to sleep "in his room" he told me: "I love you!" and gave me a little kiss on the cheek. Then in the following days we had a lot of work to do and stayed apart for a while without staying in touch even by phone, but it's not a rare thing between us. We had agreed that we would meet again on March 14 (our meetings are almost always on the weekend), but the government decrees intervened and we could not move from home, neither he nor I, but the experience of February 29 was somehow replicated a couple of times via the web, which is not quite the same, but I realized that I no longer had any resistance against his fantasies and that trying to share his fantasies seemed to me much more spontaneous, that is, we were practically on the same wavelength, there was no need of speeches or preambles of any kind. Once we arrived at the end, however, we continued to talk about a thousand other things, even very far from sex, I felt him loose, relaxed, without melancholy notes. He told me about when he was a child, about "lego" constructions, but also about the long afternoons he spent alone, practically abandoned by his parents, about how he had learned to draw (which he still does now and very well) and how he had learned to play the guitar, sometimes when some melancholy thoughts were about to invade him he chased them away by doing exercises with the guitar. We spent two evenings or rather two nights talking and we felt well in a profound sense, he felt accepted, not exploited, He said to me: you are not my type, but with you I'm fine, I feel really well and I want you too to feel well, I am not in love with you but I love you. This sentence may sound strange but I know it is absolutely true. Now I hope that the restrictions on circulation will be removed as soon as possible, clearly because it would mean that the epidemic is waning, but also because I'm looking forward to see Andrew again, because for me only he exists. These are the facts. What do you think about, Project?
 
Project - You have been happy and he too, this is the better proof that you and  Andrew love each other! There is a reciprocal trust, a very uncommon way to accept one another's rules and then he didn't feel rejected in his most intimate fantasies, you made him understand that you didn't feel conditioned, in short, you have put him at ease. It would be very nice if it was like that even in all the monogamous couples both gay and hetero, if there was this level of sexual availability! But believe me it is very rare. Very often in sex there are real attempts to prevaricate, attempts to impose models without ever adapting to the other
 
Mau85 - But I felt happy and I said to myself that I was a fool when I tried to avoid to consider his need for what it really was without giving him the opportunity to express himself as he wished, when instead I did it I saw him happy, because he didn't feel rejected. I think that when you make your partner understand what you need and he pretends not to understand and wants to bring you on his way the feeling of frustration must be tremendous, because you bitterly feel that between you and your partner there isn't any real feeling, that you are considered no more than a body available to the fantasies of others. In short, Project, I'm slowly learning to understand the meaning of many things that a few years ago I would have refused and would have seemed completely absurd to me. I liked without any real reason the classic couple model and I thought that I would never adapt to anything different and instead when Andrew told me that he had fallen in love with another guy but he loved me anyway I accepted this thing and I have never regretted my choice and now I learn that in order to live sexuality well, one must try to leave room for the other, respecting and accepting him. I saw him smile and it was a beautiful thing. If I love him I don't have to say no to him for more or less stupid reasons. And then the evenings spent talking together were wonderful. I feel that he really loves me.
 
Project - You have come to these conclusions but the vast majority of couples would never get there, simply because there is no real affection, or perhaps there is, but putting first the self-realization, first the selfish note. The things you say would scandalize many people, but anyway they are very true. I remember you saying that Andrew had never deceived you, well, saying this about a guy means rewarding him with the most beautiful compliment one can do. I'm not surprised that you fell in love with Andrew and even less that you never felt the need to find another guy because there is a relationship with Andrew and it is of deep ones, those which are not lost with the years.
 
Mau85 - I knew you would understand. I told a small summary of this story on another gay site and they asked me if I was out of my mind, in the end they left me alone because they thought I was making fun of them! I'm glad to talk to you, I feel encouraged. However, if you want to publish this chat, publish it, maybe it puts someone in crisis! Thank you, Project, Gay Project has given me so much!
Good night.
 
Project - Thanks to you! And a hug to you and Andrew!

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  STORY OF A GAY COUPLE
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 03-11-2020, 04:01 AM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

email dated March 4, 2020

 
Hi Project,
I have been reading your forum for several years and I find it particular because there are several original and very unusual messages.
I’m 42 years old, I’m single or in other words I don't have a boyfriend, I only had one with whom I had a very complex but also very true relationship. I've never been too interested in sex, which on the contrary is absolutely fundamental for him. After me he had other boys but in essence it was just a series of illusions-disillusions. In practice he has never lived a truly symmetrical relationship, he didn’t experience this kind of relationship not even with me. He’s young, he’s 32 years old, but he is afraid of becoming old without realizing anything concrete on an emotional level. I can't say if I still love him or if I have ever loved him, our relationship has always been very convoluted, indeed we have always said that we did not understand each other and that we were looking for different things, that we would have done better to find other people, etc. etc .. But that minimum of relationship that was there when we were together has never been completely lost. He kept telling me that he was interested in me only for sex, because he was afraid that I would fall in love and get hurt, and instead I would repeat to him, using the most varied expressions, that I was really in love with him above all sentimentally: our positions were so different that it was basically impossible to find any balance and in fact the thing is over.
Was ours a couple relationship? I just don't think so and I don't think it was even so at the beginning because I always had many doubts about the matter and I never really felt in love with him, as I would have liked, even if I kept saying to him that I was, and on the other hand he too was not in love with me as he would have liked. We were together, there was a bit of sex, too little for him and too much without feeling for me, basically there was nothing concrete between us, yet this "nothing" was not completely lost even after each of us has gone on his way, but even now our love, if we can call it so, is not a real way of loving each other but it’s a way to depend a little on each other, a sort of dependence because he considers me a friend with whom he’s allowed to have sex sometimes, always too little for him and always too loveless for me. In practice we go on as before but only in an even more diluted way, we meet once in a while, sometimes also after months, when he doesn’t find anything better (I know that saying so it’s a bit as saying a bad thing) or when I get depressed and I miss him and I call him in the illusion that there may be an even minimal emotional contact, because I still delude myself that it can happen.
I must say that in recent months I have felt a gradual cooling in me, years ago I missed him very much, that is, when he was not there I was really bad, but now, sometimes I prefer that he is not there, I feel more peaceful, I delude myself that he’s happy with somebody else and this is enough as an excuse to avoid looking for him.
Sometimes I try to put myself in his shoes and I realize that he’s not living well at all, and then I feel a bit of guilt because I’m now truly abandoning him to himself, I would like that between us there was also a minimum of emotional relationship, but he doesn’t want to know about these things, he tells me that he fell in love even recently, but not with me, and that the story seemed important but then the guy began to be jealous and obsessive (which are the same flaws that he reproaches me) and he felt caged and preferred to close the story because he ended up being too anxious. With me, he didn’t close the story but emptied it from within. He tells me that I never accept compromises and that everything must always be done as I say, but I think of him exactly the same. After him I kept away from sex, partly because of the fear of diseases and partly because putting sex in the middle creates a lot of problems, everyone has his own fixed ideas and fantasies, everyone has his way to live those things and it is very difficult to find a common space, and then I came to the conclusion that it is much better to put aside sex and cultivate only friendships, then, perhaps, if any of those friendships were to become deeper and if there was also a mutual sexual involvement, ok, I would be fine, but I don't want sex without shared love anymore.
In certain situations one remains in the balance between the need not to be overwhelmed by rhythms that we perceive as something foreign to us and the illusion of being able to make others understand our way of life, and there uncertainties, doubts and oscillations begin, but little by little the oscillations fade away and you are definitely in the middle, without real involvement and without real freedom.
I can't deny, though, that I can't permanently get him out of my head. I wish he was happy, because then I would be happy too, but I would no longer like him to be happy with me because I know very well that such a thing is impossible. Unfortunately, over time, I’m increasingly led to think that he will not be happy with anyone. I got easily used to not having a couple life, but it is much more difficult for him, because even if he denies it, he needs a strong emotional relationship that is very difficult to build out of a couple relationship, but a couple life would not be compatible with his free way of experiencing sexuality.
Sometimes I think that among the straight people the presence of children dilutes all these problems, in gay couples, on the contrary, where everything happens only within the couple itself, certain problems end up becoming conditioning.
Use this email as you want but, if you can, try to answer me because it would help me understand many things that maybe I don't understand at all.
Giulio

email dated March 6, 2020
 
Hi Giulio,
your story, if you consider it in the abstract, it seems the twisted story of a failure, but frankly it seems to me rather like a difficult love story, and of true love, I would also add reciprocal. It is evident that you are still in love with that guy but it is equally evident that he has never disappeared and that he considers you an important person. In his own way, apparently without affective involvement, it will perhaps be a partial, defective love, different from how you would have liked it, but it is anyway a form of love because it lasts over time and because it has overcome many difficulties that would have easily led to dissolution any superficial couple relationship. True love stories are always very different from how we had planned them, they are always much more problematic, much less linear but at the same time they have the persistence of reality. I don’t believe that your making love with that guy was "without love", even if there have been many misunderstandings among you, it has never been an irreparable and destructive conflict. You say that you have created a kind of mutual dependence and it almost seems that you consider this fact something quite pathological, but there is nothing pathological, loving each other also entails this, indeed if this mutual dependence (note the adjective “mutual” that is typical of real couples) were not there wouldn't even be a love relationship. This guy, after all, if he was only looking for sex, he could find it very easily elsewhere, but if he looks for it from you and he still does it after years, well, he probably doesn’t look for just that, he knows that you will accept and understand him in any case, that he can tell you freely whatever he thinks and that you will answer him by telling him whatever you really think. Affectivity can also be expressed through sex. Anaffective sex is ephemeral, it leads to change many partners not to build anything with anyone but that's not what happened to you with that guy. His love is not exclusive, this could be a problem for you, but for some people exclusivity is not essential and it is possible to develop very serious even if not exclusive relationships, where, however, there is the problem of HIV risk.
Dear Giulio, I don't think you lost that guy at all. The superficial stories quickly fade away and yours doesn’t seem to me to be a finished story at all, and I’m not saying from your point of view but from his point of view.
A hug.
Project
 
e-mail dated 8 March 2020

Dear Project,
you say that his is not anaffective sex and really I think it is not. In my previous email I told you that I had a very complex but very true relationship with him and this, sometimes, I tend to forget it. In fact, he trusted me, he also talked to me about extremely private things and I can't forget this, he exposed himself to a judgment that could also be fierce and of rejection, that is, he risked a lot. He didn't please me on principle, he was himself all the way. He knows that I love him and even when he treats me abruptly he does it with respect, perhaps also with love. I haven't heard from him in a while and I don't know whether to call him. Anyway, thank you for your answer, because you made me rethink him by putting aside my defense mechanisms. He has his strengths, there is no doubt, he never acted with me.
Thanks again.
Giulio

e-mail of 9 March 2020

Hi Project,
here we are all agitated by the fear of the virus, and I’m too, but I wanted to tell you that today happened something that I didn’t expect at all. That guy, and I would like to say or should say my boyfriend, called me last night and we were talking until almost dawn (the sky was already bright), he was serene and I felt happy, we remembered our first nights of love, reluctances and scruples on one side and the other. You must know, Project, that I believed that he would come to hate me for those nights of sex, because he was so much younger than me, and instead he remembered them as a beautiful thing, as moments when he felt completely free and accepted. He asked me if I had ever felt forced because he was afraid of having forced me to do something that I didn't want to do. I told him that he was the only guy in my life, indeed the model of my ideal guy. He reminded me that he also has friends with whom he sometimes has sex, I told him that he had talked to me about it at other times, he asked me if it embarrasses me, I replied that it creates me concern about the risk of sexually transmitted diseases and he added: "But, apart from diseases, does this fact embarrass you?" And I replied: "No, because I know that you really love me. You can love other boys too, but this won't turn you away from me." It was a very emotional and very rewarding night, totally unexpected and I felt important in his life. That's all. I wanted to let you know. Obviously you can use my mails as you like better. Thanks again.
Giulio

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  DIARY OF A LOVE GAY
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 03-04-2020, 01:33 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Monday 6 May 2019, 7.40 am
It's Monday, the week starts again. Now you are going to work, we spent together, all inclusive, less than 24 hours, your pillow still has your scent, your imprint and almost your warmth. I know we must go on like this and I will know how to wait but I would like this waiting to end up as soon as possible in order to run to you and hug you again. I don't care about people, those who wouldn't understand anything anyway. They don't know what it means to embrace with all your strength, they don't know what it means to love and feel loved. I’m not dreaming, I feel that it’s truly what it’s happening. I think of you at all times of the day. Every time I see you again I’m almost afraid that the miracle will not happen again, that something will creak, and instead as soon as you look me in the eyes and smile at me, every fear disappears. I caress you, I feel your warmth.
I had lost hope of feeling truly free and happy and instead it happened, and now we have our little world, some dreams to turn into reality for work, some doubts about how to manage things outside, but nobody will rob us of our loving each other. Before I feared you, I thought that maybe I could discover something about you that would have influenced me, or rather I thought I was not up to having a guy like you, but you were not afraid, you made me see even the most fragile sides of you and I was enchanted.
We both had a past and we were both afraid to show ourselves for who we really are, but speaking clearly not only did not destroy anything but dispelled any doubts. The day we told each other about our lives, we pushed aside being single and started living for each other. Neither you nor I have ever told anyone about us, certainly out of prudence but also because nobody has to allow himself to judge things he does not know and to know happiness it is not enough to hear it told, it’s necessary to live it.
Today I work in the afternoon and in the morning I stay at home thinking about you, it is as if I had you near me, I seem to talk to you, to feel you. The fears are still many, and you know this, because when a guy has reached happiness he’s still afraid of losing it, then every now and then I get your text message with a smiley face and all the melancholies go away in a moment and if I’m alone I start to smile like an idiot.
I have had my experiences but it is the first time that I have fallen in love in the true sense of the word and it is a completely different thing. You took care of me, you surrounded me with attentions, you treated me with love and it never happened to me. I fell in love with a real man, with one who does not stoop to stupid or slimy things, one who if you are about to fall grabs you and keeps you close to him. You endured my paranoia, you considered it almost a merit, you never got mad at me, you just looked far away, sometimes you even stopped me, you clearly said no and it took me a while to understand that you were right.
What are you doing now? Maybe you're talking to some pretty girl who's eating you with her eyes, but you're professional, I know, I'm not afraid of these things. Of course if it was a nice guy who ate you with his eyes, I would feel jealous, well, you have to forgive me, it's natural, I have no doubts about you, but it would still bother me.
 
Tuesday 7 May 2019, 10.15 pm
I am very tired, but after your phone call I feel light, I feel like being walking on the clouds, now it's really summer outside. I’m a little worried because my father is not well but he minimizes. I think he understood that my life has changed, he sees me different and he also tells me, Who knows if he understood that you are not a girl, sometimes I think he did, but he never talks about it. I wanted to dream of you last night but it didn't happen. I worked late then I chatted with friends on WA, but those are just chats in the most evasive sense possible.
When they ask me about me I only talk about health and work, usually they end up there and they don't ask me questions, only Mark asks me when I’ll decide to find a girl and I always answer him in the same way, that is that the door is always open but nobody enters it, and the speech ends with the classic encouragement: "you will see that you will soon find a special girl!" I miss you, now I miss you a lot, just physically, I need to hold you, to feel your warmth, but it's only Tuesday.
One thing came to my mind, do you remember when I came to you for Easter? Well I was very impressed with the relationship you have with your big dog. When you play with Rinti, who is now almost bigger than me, I see that you love each other and Rinti is luckier than me because he sees you every night while I see you once a week and sometimes we skip that too. When Rinti saw us exchanging a little pampering, he got in the way, as if to say: why not to me? Evidently you got him used to pampering.
 
Thursday 9 May 2019, 11.40 pm
Today I saw a beautiful guy. Do not worry because he was married and also had a little child about a couple of years old, I was fascinated by the way he did with the child, it was just like a dad, you could see that he was happy, that with the child there was a  very spontaneous understanding, that is, not a role assumption but a very strong mutual emotional participation. I got some thoughts about the fact that we won't have children. I'm not sad about this. Well, let's turn the page! The day after tomorrow I see you again! It doesn't seem true to me, I'm counting down the hours.
 
Friday 10 May 2019, 10.10 pm
Less than 24 hours and I see you again! Today I heard a slightly stupid joke: a guy is asked if he prefers Tuesday (the day of Mars) or Friday (the day of Venus), if he prefers Tuesday he is gay! At first I hadn't even understood it. I can accept a joke like this from Mark, because it is absolutely without malice. Another strange thing: at work I felt the eyes of a girl who occasionally comes to the office, she is a little too flirtatious! You have to teach me how I can hold her off because there is something seductive about her way of doing that I don't really like. Handsome guys today just zero! One worse than the other. They are perhaps intelligent and polite, I don't doubt it, but they appear better on the phone than in person. I did the shopping for tomorrow, I’ll make for you the cold Russian salad, made by me as God commands! I miss you a lot. Try to take the first train, otherwise we will lose four hours!

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  GAYS BETWEEN STRENGTH AND WEAKNESS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 02-20-2020, 10:18 AM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hi Project,
I’m a thirty-eight year old guy who has slowly lost all his dreams on the street, who has a precarious job and lives with the nightmare of being out of work at any moment, who has parents with serious health problems, and who is looking for how to get on with what is available without complaining too much. 

And then there is my partner who, for heaven's sake, is a good guy, but thinks only with his own head and, perhaps, for my sake, he only reproaches me because he thinks I need an energetic grooming to react to against all my problems instead of simply abandoning myself to the chance. 

I’m not angry with my boyfriend, who in the end has been close to me even in the worst moments. Now even writing what I think seems to me almost an aggression against him, who in the end is a poor guy like me, and so I avoid making judgments and comparing reality to my dreams, because a good part of our misunderstandings also depends on me, on my inertia, on my pulling away. 

He is younger than me and has a lot of strength, I see it every day by how he reacts, when I get back from work, I’m very tired, sometimes I don't even eat, I have to think about my parents who are much worse than me, I have to think about cooking, making them eat, and sometimes it is a hard business, often I don't have the time to think about my boyfriend and he feels marginalized, neglected and almost abandoned and doesn’t understand that I’m exhausted. 

It’s surprising for him that my sexual interests have been dying out over time, that I don’t react with enthusiasm to his proposals. According to him sex should always arouse the maximum enthusiasm, as it happened before. 

Sometimes he asks me to go to his house, since I live with my parents, but I don't go there because I'm too much tired and he feels it as a refusal and tells me that I prefer to sleep alone rather than being with him. And then it is also true that I try to escape him or rather to escape sex with him, because I often have no desire and when I get to the point my participation is very superficial and he asks me a thousand times why. 

He knows very well that I haven’t other guys  of any kind, and it seems strange to him that I can no longer live sex as before, and this humiliates me, I feel judged and not understood, on the other hand I don't know what he can think about me, probably he thinks I’m weak, yielding, willing to endure anything in order to be left in peace. 

Sometimes he starts to behave drastically with me, but without malice, he scolds me, he judges me but he doesn't understand me and this makes me feel bad. Many times I think that if we parted it would be better for both him and me. He would always be disappointed with me, and on the other hand I don't understand why he insists on staying with me, I don't understand what he can find in me. 

Sometimes there are moments of freezing between us, he gets very angry and sends me to hell, but then he comes back, maybe for only two minutes, but he comes back and calls me on the phone. He tells me that at my age I’m not yet at the andropause, that he would understand some of my reluctances if I had another guy but since I have no one else, my behavior seems to him pathological, my reluctances seem to him depressed reluctances. 

He can't stand that I always avoid clashes with people, even when such clashes seem necessary to him, sometimes he tells me badly that I should send some people loudly you know where, while I always try to mend, to find a quiet life and to come down to a compromise. 

Actually at my age I shouldn't have lost sexual interest, I know that, when I go to him he always expects me to go there to have sex with him, but many times I don't feel like it, I would cuddle him, I would stay embraced with him while watching TV but he can't stand such things and on the contrary, in a sense, he despises them because they seem to him stupid things, a bit of play too much childish. He doesn’t like sweet speeches, now I no longer try to make speeches of that type, because it is perfectly useless. 

He tries to bring me to his ground, that is, to the immediately sexual level, and I sometimes follow him on that ground, but he realizes that on my part it is somehow a surrender, that it is a thing made with a very weak enthusiasm. 

We will never live together, I have to look after my parents and I can't get rid of such problems, on the contrary he is free, he still has young parents and he could very well find a companion as he would like him, sometimes he has been with other guys, but it always lasted a little time, after a couple of months or so he dropped them and came back to me. 

I like his way of being a little aggressive, because behind it there is an underlying affection, never accepted and always carried on the sexual level, but that underlying affection is really there, otherwise he would have gone away and never would have come back. I think that somehow he is attracted by my weakness, he sees himself in the shoes of the one who has to pull me out of the depression pit. I don’t really feel in that pit, I’m tired, yes, and a lot, but I know he is there, perhaps in this sense he is my lifeline. 

But I’m afraid to drag him too into more or less depressive mechanisms. I think he's a very good guy and I don't think I deserve one like that. If I said something like that in front of him he would get very angry and preach me about my low self-esteem. 

We have been together for years. I don't know what holds us together, the more I wonder the less I understand it, but he is basically the only positive certainty in my life. What would happen if he really went away, I mean permanently? Well then the depression, the real one, would lie in wait. 

I know that this story is not the typical dream of gay guys, and after all it wasn't even my dream and least of all I think it was my boyfriend's dream, but in the end dreams are dreams while our relationship exists now for years and basically has never gone into crisis. 

If there is a glue that holds us together, I think it consists in the fact that we appreciate each other, I think he would never make something bad against anyone and when he sees me unresponsive and surrendered despite his efforts, in the end he smiles, as if to say: "I know there is nothing to do, but anyway that's okay!"

If you want you can publish my email.

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