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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-20-2020, 04:13 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hi Project,
I read your last posts in the forum and I was impressed by the speeches on monogamy, because it’s the first time that I read something about this subject that corresponds with my experience. I'll try to explain better why. I'm growing up! I’m 34 years old and I begin to understand how gay love works. Of course without generalizing too much, however I begin to understand a little better the way through which many gay guys relate to me.
Unfortunately, they like me at first sight, that is, they see me and hit the ground running, it has always been like that, now maybe a little less. They follow me, they woo me, they have a strong interest in me, or rather they have a huge interest in having sex with me, to the point that if I say no, they feel really bad.
I don't know what I do to men but for them I’m the object of desires, obviously they don't evaluate the person I'm, because they fall crazily in love with me at first sight, without even having the time to know me a little.
And I'm not a so beautiful guy, I consider myself normal, I see many guys who look much better than me, really many. For a few years or more than a few years, I played with this thing, I knew that I had a power over men, or at least on a certain category of men, that is, on those who are a little depressed, a little cursed, tormented, very humoral, which are precisely the ones I like best and, I would add, that in general they are also very beautiful guys.
A few years ago I had come to discover a principle about this sort of falling in love. I told myself that they were in love as long as I didn't give up, because at that time I tended not to give the guys much confidence.
Then when I started saying yes to someone I had proof that the crush on me doesn’t pass easily, in fact usually it doesn’t pass at all, but there is one thing that I don't like: the crush on me is practically only sexual and this makes me uncomfortable.
I can find guys to woo me quite easily, even when I have no intention of it and I don't get rid of them easily, but they want to get from me one thing only. Honestly it's not that I'm sorry that things go like this, in a way it's comfortable, but it's not enough for me, because these aren't love stories.
When I go to bed with some of these guys I see them really taken by a kind of absurd frenzy that almost seems pathological to me because nothing like this has ever happened to me, sometimes the enthusiasm is so strong that the guy doesn't even think about condoms and there I stop him and say to him: “I'm not crazy! I don't want to risk getting HIV just for a fuck! " However, the point is another: these guys are not looking for a guy but just for a fuck! Because in the end they have their boyfriends.
I don't know if they tell their boyfriends that they go around courting me, I don't think they tell them such sort of things, but they tell me that they have a boyfriend because they understand that I wouldn't get away from them for this reason, and they tell me it because according to them in this way I can’t delude myself that they are in love with me. In a sense, "with me" they are honest.
At the beginning I used to think that these behaviors were a sign of something pathological, that is, I thought they were just uncontrollable physical outbursts and instead the more I go on the more I realize that this is not the case. They need two things: the first is to have a steady boyfriend, that is, a serious point of reference, which is fine for certain things, and the second is to have a lover with whom, even if there is no real emotional relationship, it is anyhow possible to let off steam. It is a bit like in the 1800s, one had a wife who was fine for certain things, then he had a lover and paid her with money and so he thought he was using her as a tool of pleasure only, but when he was with his lover he used to let himself go and not just sexually, and he used to tell his lover things he could never say to his wife.
In conclusion, I think that stable gay relationships, in many cases, are a bit like a golden prison from which many guys sooner or later tend to escape. The guys, from what I see, with the stable boyfriend have a relationship that is also sexual, but up to a certain point, that is, there are still taboos, which for example don’t exist at all with me. With me they talk about their sexual problems, they want to know what I think of their way of having sex, they compare with me, they take me as a yardstick and I think they do it to have a way to evaluate from the outside their relationship with their stable boyfriend.
The fact that they often tell me and repeat that they have a stable boyfriend, in my opinion, means that they are also afraid of falling in love with me because this would undermine their relationship with the stable boyfriend, that's why they insist on telling me that they have sex with me only for sex, but this thing is so repeated that it ends up being the classic excusatio non petita (unrequired justification).
Why do they come to tell me and remind me of it every time? This means that they have a dirty conscience, that is that they actually keep me at bay and are afraid of me, but not because I could fall in love with them but because they could fall in love with me! Because they would like both me and their stable boyfriend, but this puts them in crisis and forces them to lie, because in their world having a stable boyfriend is a bit like getting married and marriage must be monogamous.
Let me be clear, in the fact that they want both me and their stable boyfriend, I don't see anything wrong, but they instead consider it almost a betrayal, even if they do it anyway! For them, keeping one foot in two shoes is a problem, because they say to me that they have a stable boyfriend, while with the stable boyfriend they are careful not to talk about me.
This is a bit what I don't like about these guys, I don't like their fake respectability, their way of not saying things as they are because they are afraid of losing the stable boyfriend, because you must keep in mind that having a stable boyfriend is a social status, with the stable boyfriend they go out with friends while they are afraid of being seen on the street with me.
I can satisfy their needs only at home, or better in bed, this is my role, they would never introduce me to their friends, because friends belong to another sphere. I’m part of the sex area, not of the social relations area. They treat me a bit like 19th century men  used to treat their lovers.
I don't mind being with these guys, they also have a kind of loyalty towards me, even if, clearly, they are ashamed of me or better of themselves. Of course I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of their stable boyfriends! In short, I’m the dark side of their life, the one who must remain hidden in order not to ruin the really important things.
They think that I suffer from this situation but I'm fine, I don't want a stable boyfriend, to end up like their stable boyfriends. I love the guys who woo me, they make me tenderness but I absolutely don't see them in the role of a boyfriend, I know that sooner or later they will leave, perhaps
because they are in love with their boyfriend or because maintaining a relationship with me would become too complicated, maybe it can be done when there is no coexistence with the stable boyfriend, but when they live together, escapades are no longer practicable. I’m the escapade! And I smile while saying it! But even escapes have their own meaning.
I hug you, Project! Keep doing what you do! 
Obviously you can use the email as you want.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-17-2020, 10:23 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

In this post I will try to address a topic that I consider particularly important, namely gay sex as a play.

I start from a clarification. The word “play” takes on the most varied meanings, from the most negative ones, such as in "Minors are not allowed to play", where  “play” sounds quite similar to "gamble" to those more neutral and related to child's play. “Playing”, in the sense that I intend to give here to this word, must be something absolutely spontaneous and must have no purpose other than the play itself and the interpersonal contacts it creates or promotes. In other words, playing in order to feel free doesn't mean getting involved in a sort of comedy that must follow and interpret a script already written, and even lesser playing is a way to compare yourself with others in order to get a prize. The Play is improvisation. In the real play between adults, as in the game between children, everything is improvisation and spontaneity. The play is liberating. The child who stands on the sidelines, and doesn't feel involved in the play is a child who is afraid, who feels restrained or, worse, he is a depressed child.
Play has a lot in common with true sexuality, that is, with unplanned and non-imitative sexuality. Living sex means first of all feeling absolutely at ease with your partner, because sexuality can only be lived well in a condition of authentic disinhibition, that is, when you are yourself and you see a deep correspondence from your partner.
A guy in a chat told me: "But sex is repetitive, it's always the same thing!" This statement is the most typical sign of the sexual dissatisfaction. When you live sexuality well, sex is not repetitive at all precisely because it takes over the dimension of play, of laughing, of joking, of not taking yourself too seriously. There is nothing more beautiful in a sexual contact than seeing the spontaneity and involvement of one's partner and realizing that he feels totally at ease.
Sex is never a duty to be carried out with the utmost commitment or worse an exam to be passed, it has no rules and no script to follow, if it acquires the characteristics of duty or examination, instead of being relaxing, it ends up creating discomfort and promoting performance anxiety. The play consists precisely in moving away from the script and in creating always different situations, the game borders on rice and rice favors disinhibition and allows you to send even very serious messages, without underlining them the too much, and when two partners are really close, messages sent in this soft way don't fall into thin air at all. Playing, in sexuality, is a very useful means of spreading the message that sex is an ordinary dimension of life and must be lived lightly.
Sex is not transgression but freedom, the two terms manifest two different attitudes: those who live sex as transgression cannot feel truly free and don’t live sex as part of ordinary life but as an exception and a rebellion against an oppressive rule. Freedom doesn’t consist in breaking the rules but in not feeling bound by any rule beyond one's moral rule. Play is freedom and sex too is freedom, if you lives it freely, it is a manifestation of interest, respect, affection, attention to the other. Playing and living sexuality means sharing and listening. Making love is a way of expressing yourself, of communicating, of not being afraid of being who you are and of showing yourself for what you are.
In sex, body language takes on a special value that sometimes goes far beyond words: a hug, a smile, a gesture of complicity, an exchange of glances, a wink at the right time convey messages of reassuring and encouragement such as: "I’m happy to be with you!" or "Don't be afraid of me!"
Often playing, in the sexual dimension, takes on a particular aspect, that consists in not doing what the partner expects, in order to confuse him a bit, and to end up dissolving the beginning anxiety with a smile, as if to say: “I'm kidding you! " Often sexual play takes the form of an unexpected but never inappropriate intimate gesture. The game is always a call to move away from the script and to feel free. If my partner jokes with me while we are in sexual intimacy this means that he really feels comfortable and that he is not afraid of my reactions.
In order to live sexuality in a truly gratifying way, only two conditions are needed: knowing each other thoroughly and maintaining a level of substantial equality between the partners. To live sexuality well you have to overcome the individual dimension to start thinking as a member of a couple, even if it is a couple with very limited time limits. In a couple that works, as in a free play that works, there are no leaders and there are no followers because the relationship must be equal: the choices must be made in two, they must be shared, because only in this way every forcing, that is a manifestation of disaffection, can be avoided.
If sex is the only moment of encounter between the two partners, it ends up to be identified with the true purpose of the relationship, the means (sex) becomes the goal and the person of the partner assumes only an instrumental role: if you prefer to have sex more than love the person, you neglect the deeper meaning of sexuality, that is, its communicative value.
True sexuality can’t be designed, because it is spontaneous, the expectations that lead us to imagine in the partner the perfect crowning of our fantasies are generally the antechamber of disappointments, exactly like, in the play, the expectation that the other has only the role of playing our game, while the other is a person hose dignity is equal to ours. The profound knowledge of the other reduces all expectations to one, that is, to the desire to be able to share one's sexual intimacy with the partner, in the way in which it will be possible to do so, it being understood that the way must be an expression of couple's freedom and never the imposition of a single partner, that is, it must be shared.
During sexual contacts complex or problematic aspects of partner sexuality can emerge which we easily notice but we don’t realize equally easily that, in a perfectly symmetrical way, also complex or problematic aspects of our sexuality, of which we often are not conscious, become clear to our partner. The playful dimension of sexuality avoids that taking note of the other's problems opens the door to a possible refusal of the other, precisely because play dilutes, loosens, distracts from too specific aspects and creates an atmosphere of pleasantness and mutual complicity that defuses the possible conflicts about to burst.
Sex is often loaded with meanings that doesn't belong to it, and sometimes having sex becomes the sign of an adult and fully realized life, and therefore not having sex becomes the stigma of a loser, this way sex can become a true social status that seems to create a hierarchy between individuals, when this it happens, sex loses the connotation of simplicity and spontaneity that is proper to it and becomes an instrument to achieve different goals.
Just as all individuals are different from each other in genetic characteristics, physical constitution and psychological attitude, so they are different from each other also in the way of conceiving and living sexuality. Two guys, however similar they may be, will have anyway two different ways of conceiving and living sexuality, which means that even within the most close-knit couple there will always be a need for a mediation to find a balance between two sexualities anyway different. This mediation can be achieved through dialogue but can be achieved in a much less formal way with play, which can also take on spontaneously an exploratory value of the possible horizons of couple sexuality. The exploratory play allows you to take a step back when necessary and to communicate your wishes to the partner, avoiding the verbalization that on certain contents sometimes creates embarrassment even in the most close-knit couples.
The playful attitude allows, when necessary, to say no to one's partner without that assuming the characteristics of a possible refusal of the person. Demands and rejections, if they are real demands and real rejections, are signs of a relationship in crisis.
The playful attitude often allows you to overcome the moments of embarrassment related, for example, to the difficulty of maintaining an erection for a long time or of reaching orgasm, or related to problems of premature ejaculation.
The playful attitude helps to put aside expectations of perfect reciprocity which are sometimes unrealistic and which in themselves should not undermine the basic relationship between two people, although sometimes the expectation of perfect reciprocity seems to produce just this effect. Play helps not to emphasize the problems, which on a sexual level may very well exist but which must not be underlined but accepted in the knowledge that not every day is the same and that loving a guy means loving him and not forcing him to be our photocopy.
Loving a guy means above all loving his freedom. When during the play a child wants to redefine the rules of the game in order to limit the freedom of his partner, the game automatically loses interest for the partner because it is no longer free and creative.
Very often, in consolidated couple relationships, emotional security is sought by imposing rules, but doing so destroys the spontaneity that underlies sexuality. Often one doesn’t have sex out of love, but out of habit, to pass the time or simply because one has nothing better to do, just like when one decides to play cards or chess to deceive boredom. It is obvious that in such situations, relationships wear out and sex becomes institutionalized almost as a contractual performance. When it comes to these levels, recovering the situation is very difficult and sometimes it is even more difficult to resolve the situation by interrupting a well-worn relationship, kept alive only by formal obligations.
When a sexual contact has been truly satisfying, one tends to manifest to his partner the sense of gratification that has been felt and at this point misunderstandings can arise, and in fact arise.
If, addressing your partner after sex, you say: "You were very good!" and the like, you probably think you were very polite because usually such expressions  are seen by those who use them as a compliment but are often assimilated by those who receive that "compliment" to the classic ritual compliment that the client addresses to an escort at the end of his sexual performance. It makes more sense to simply say, "I love you!" which means that I love you as a man, as a person, for your dignity and your way of being not only for your sexual performance.
I would like to warn  those who read me against an attitude, characteristic of sexuality aimed only at performance, that can cause bewilderment and disappointment. Sometimes it happens that at the end of a sexual intercourse, the one of the two partners, who has been at the home of the other, gets dressed and goes out closing the door and saying only. "See you!" There is no need to clarify why such an attitude can be experienced as unpleasant. Similarly unpleasant is the invitation to dinner before a night of sex, which has all the characteristics of an attempt at seduction, much more appropriate and pleasant is to go and have a pizza together after sex, or to have breakfast together the next morning, because this underlines that the purpose is the person and not the evening of sex and frames sex in a dimension of ordinary normality.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-08-2020, 05:23 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies

Hi Project,

I have read your forum far and wide and now I would like to let off steam with you on a thorny issue, in my opinion much more thorny than the issues related only to sex, betrayals and so on. You often talk about gay love as something completely detached from everything else, but unfortunately gay love (and for the straight one is absolutely the same) doesn’t come from a sterile and uncontaminated environment, but comes from the brains of people who have thousand other things on their minds, and they have a thousand other mental habits, from which they certainly don’t detach themselves when they fall in love, if they really fall in love. I mean that, sadly, gay stories are tainted by other interests, which sometimes don't even reach the level of consciousness.
I don’t mean that guys pretend to fall in love realizing that their falling in love, beyond appearances, has a thousand other reasons, or at least is conditioned by a thousand other reasons. You fall in love but taking with you all your mental vices. And note well, I’m not talking about sex-related things at all. We often fall in love mixing our falling in love with the idea of finding a "comfortable accommodation", of having something to gain either in explicitly economic terms or more often in terms of benefits related to coexistence, such as reducing subsistence expenses and those for the home, or even to have assistance in case of need or illness, especially if one begins to move forward with the years.
Furthermore, if one of the two partners has a job and the other doesn’t, the situation becomes tragic and the interests directly or indirectly linked with economic sphere become absolutely preponderant, even if no one talks about it. In summary, I think that often, unfortunately, affectivity and sex are by no means the central element of a relationship. Now I come to clarify the reason where all this talk comes from.
I'm over 40 and in my life I had only two important stories, the first one with a guy 15 years younger than me, that I mistreated because he seemed to me almost dependent on sex, I say almost because it was not really a pathological thing, let's say trat his propensity for sex  was excessive for me. Then, after four years I broke the story with him and at the moment it seemed like a liberation, and I started a story with a man four years older than me.
I felt better with my new partner, in practice I felt at the same level, but a thousand other things emerged with him that slowly put the relationship in crisis. My current partner works, earns well, I mean much more than me, but has forms of avarice that irritate me. He doesn’t want to change his car because he says it is still very good, however, when he has to go out for work, he uses mine which is almost new and makes trips of 200-250 kilometers a day, but not only, he never refuels with petrol, I always have to do it, now he also takes it for granted that my car is somehow also his.
You will tell me that a car is only a car, but it doesn’t do it only with the car but also with the smartphone. But that's not enough: we've been living together for almost three years now, at my house, and he has never thought about contributing to expenses or going buy foods to the supermarket for both of us with his money. Mentally he reduced me not only to the role of paying bills, gasoline and various expenses, but also to the role of butler and cook, because he does nothing at all at home.
Days ago I started thinking about my first boyfriend and many episodes of which at the time I didn't even understand the meaning. At the beginning he did only precarious jobs and sometimes very heavy ones. I once thought to give him a smartphone as a present, I made a nice little package and gave it to him and I was surprised by his reaction, because he didn't even open the package, he put it back in my hand and said: “No! This is not good for me ... "At the moment I felt offended by this behavior and then I forgot about it. He never wanted to be accompanied anywhere by car.
Once, he came to my house and found a terrible confusion, he began to collect all the scattered things around and then he started washing the dishes and only allowed me to dry them. He never wanted to come and stay with me at my house when he wasn't working yet and I didn't understand why, then he found a permanent job and asked me if the proposal to live together was still valid, I said yes and he moved to my house and thenceforth  he started do pay "always" a half of the bills and half of the shopping, he used to do it with an accuracy and a pride that somehow bothered me but that had a profound meaning, he didn't like at all to feel like one who takes advantage of the situation not even at a minimum level. He used to cook very often and was very careful to keep everything in order.
Since he had to go to work very early, he also used to get up very early and showered first. When I entered the bathroom, everything was perfectly dry and shiny, the window was open and the room was well ventilated. With my last partner, it is exactly the opposite, he goes out with wet thongs and splash with dirty water the whole house, he leaves the bathroom like a lake because he knows that there is someone who has to think about it.
Perhaps my first boyfriend will also have had a fixation on sex, and in any case he didn't put me in crisis because of this, but he had a dignity, that is he was interested in me, for sex, certainly, but also because he loved me, not because he needed a car or because while living with me he could live at my expense. A couple of days ago we met again and I was struck by his way of doing things: he was happy to see me! And honestly me too.
We talked for three hours, then I asked him if he had a partner, he said no and I told him that I had thought a lot about him and that I understood how unique he was and that I thought I would like to get back with him but now I had my new partner who was living with me. He asked me: "Are you in love with him?" and I replied. "Now not anymore.
Now I understand many other aspects of his nature that I don't like at all, but there is the problem that he has lived in my house for three years and he considers it his home, and convincing him to leave will not be easy ..." He told me: "Are you waiting for him to leave spontaneously? You can take it for granted, he will never do it!" We talked about how I could get rid of my partner, first of all I would have to find the courage to talk to him hoping that he won't make too many stories.
Then he said something I didn't expect: “When you want, when he's out, we take all your things away and you come and stay at my house, it's a very little house, but it's mine. Then if he makes a lot of stories, change the lock and take his things to a deposit and if he wants, he can go and get them there. All this seems to me really difficult to put into practice but I have to regain my freedom, I absolutely must succeed. Thinking that I was so stupid as to be enslaved by the guy who should have been my ideal partner makes me feel really bad.
Project, this is the point where I’m now, my house is occupied by my (ex-)companion that now I can no longer stand. Cohabitation is not a dream and can become a nightmare. Except in exceptional cases, I strongly advise young people to put aside the idea of living with their partner, unless he is a person with real dignity.
Thanks for listening, Project. If you put this email on the forum I would be happy if he reads it! Obviously do what you think best.
S. G.

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  Conversations with Antichrist
Posted by: T4o - 06-07-2020, 07:30 AM - Forum: I just joined Gay Project Forum - No Replies

Hi there, let me introduce myself, I’m T40 (1) 
What am I doing here? It is due to my favorite devil: Project.
I’m 42 years old and: straight, fascist, Catholic.
Until 2015 I was also a seminarian, in various seminars, including that of the Pope in Rome, under the pontificate of Benedict XVI.
I have a degree in modern literature with historical-artistic orientation. If you want to know how I have always thought of “it”, take any straight man from the street, one of those heavily intolerant, add the books of "Special Moral Theology"- a discipline that deals exactly with "it", add also the reading and knowledge of the documents that Project cites on the forum about the Catholic Church and garnish the whole with thoughts in the style of Nicolosi or whoever else you like. THEN WHAT? Then, in 2020 I feel really good. After the long personal break down/reconstruction, following the end of the seminar experience, suddenly I felt free from everything and everyone.
On youtube I follow an Italian guy, called 151eg (Enrico) and he talks about Steven Universe. He did his coming out, but more than this, I’m struck by what he says about gay men in his videos.
I decided to look further and searched: "what’s a gay?" on Google and I got Gay Project Forum.
It was my red pill. (2) I had found a well-organized knowledge, complete and clear answers. Shuffling through the forum topics and references, the more I read the more a concept became clear to me: "what is written here is more true than what I have always known. Why? Because It’s more logical". Everything was logical. So far I had only read as anonymous user. But inside me I felt gratitude growing for those who had organized all this stuff.
I have to explain something important. All my life I have been given homosexual stigma. Other hetero guys considered me gay by default even if it was not the truth. I have always experienced such situations like a burden. Reading the forum topics had completely freed me from any hesitation or doubt about myself. At the same time it has totally dissipated that curtain of taboo and ignorance I was used to and I found answers to questions that I would have asked someone but I had never found whom to ask. Because even just asking is taboo. Hence gratitude. So I decided to do something that is not ought to be done. I WROTE AN EMAIL TO THE DEVIL, that is to Project. I wanted to thank him. It was April 1, 2020. It meant exposing myself, leaving anonymity. But I owed it to him for everything he had already done for me. And there, what I hadn't expected at all, happened instead ... I found in Project a splendid person: more cultured than average, intelligent, polite, calm, capable of questioning himself, with a life to tell, pleasant to read ... in short, the first letter was followed by a second letter, more personal, then by a third, more personal, then by a fourth ... and we discussed about everything amiably. Often arguing amiably ... I don't esteem Pope Francis, he (Project) doesn't have much to estimate in Pope Benedict XVI but at least we both get along about Cardinal Martini. Things like that ... We ended up chatting on the phone. We have been chatting for hours, even about nothing, and in the end we both had the same feeling. He told me: “It was as talking to a friend I had always known.” and I thought exactly the same.
Before the first mail, while reading one of the contents written by Project, the manual of omosexuality, I had asked myself: " but are you as you seem or you are a completely different person and you are only fabulous to read?" No, he was a real person. Another rarity. This is why I call him the devil: what he said was mostly contrary to what I had always believed but it was much more true. He tels me to get in touch with him on Skype, but he has to guide me step by step because I don't understand anything about chatting and computers. And we continue, talking about what comes to our mind, joking, with him listening to my questions, following me in my reading the forum, and then as a good devil on April 4, 2020 makes me a joke: he invites me to enter the chat because there is a guy who speaks English and, if I was interested in speaking English, I could get in touch with him. Is there a chat? I have never been on chats of any kind in my life. And then what can I say? What have I to do? Again he has to guide me step by step because I don't know how manage the chat device. In chat I found Doro, an Italian guy, who had begun to speak English to make fun of Project.
Anyway, in the meantime, I'm on the chat. We are at the time of the coronavirus phase 1, the chat has several users. And there again I have an unexpected experience: they are "normal" people. Please don't laugh! I find myself talking to some people and I enjoy it a lot. I can't remember each of them now because they are many ... in short, a very interesting dialogue was created with each of the guys in the chat and with none of them I felt uncomfortable or misunderstood or problems arose. That's why I'm still here. For the friendship of my favorite devil, and for me, because I feel at ease here. Project, since you entered my world my life has been better and I'm glad you're here. Thank you all. Thanks, Project.

1) T4o is read “Tao” (the zen icon), as in blun7 a swishland of Tha supreme
(2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECamB0b ... ze] [/ size]

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-05-2020, 11:59 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hi Project,
I read a lot of posts in your forum, there are really good stories and I really appreciate that you have no preconceptions about gay love, you are not propagandizing the monogamous gay couple as the only possible model of true love and you give sex an important meaning but don't identify it with gay love.
My story is very similar to many others that I have read in the forum, and this has helped me a lot because I feel less alone and less strange. I fell in love so many years ago for the first time with a guy who has been somehow the living center of my life for the past 10 years.
We don’t live together, we meet in person rather rarely, we have two completely or almost completely separate circles of friends, each of us lives his own life and his own stories and nevertheless we never lost sight of each other. The years have passed and we are no longer young, but now we are a point of reference the one for the other.
There is affection between us, not really the passion of two lovers, but the loving of two true friends, there is also a little sex, at long intervals, especially when things go wrong for me or for  him, it's a way of telling each other that we are there and that at least our relationship will not fade out. There is no mutual jealousy, when he finds another guy, I’m happy with it and, strange as it may seem, I say it seriously, but until now he has never found a guy who is truly capable of understanding him.
He is often in crisis, tends to devalue himself and nevertheless I have never known a guy better than him, I don’t say from my personal point of view but objectively. He is serious, non-invasive, non-vindictive, with me he’s very patient and understands what I think without words, he claims to be neurotic, aggressive, prevaricating, but these things are the exact opposite of his way of being and I don't get to understand why he thinks such things. He says that he exploits me and that he seeks me only because there has always been a very strong sexual attraction between us. If it’s true that there has always been a very strong mutual sexual feeling, it’s also true that this didn’t prevent him or me from having other stories that seemed more attractive than our, but in the end they were not at all.
We thought several times that our relationship was somehow wrong, that it was conditioning for many other things and we tried two or three times to interrupt it but then we ended up finding ourselves together and we understood that this bond, which seems so weak, basically has its internal consistency. I know that he doesn't judge me and that he cares a lot about what I think of him, and such things on the other hand are mutual. He’s always afraid that people will judge him badly, will think him cynical, indifferent, provocative, capable of doing very bad things, but he has his friends and they are stable friends and, from what he tells me, they trust him.
What upsets me most about him is his way of making love. I too have had my experiences and not really very few but I have never found a guy like him. Many times sex was something that could be done and therefore had to be done even if neither partner was really interested in it, it was never like that with him, sex was never a banality, both for him and for me it was basically a way of feeling accepted, of knowing and proving that at least there is someone who wants you as you are, who doesn’t want to lead you to some particular choice, who doesn’t judge you and who loves you. It’s another way of experiencing affectivity and sex. 
As for me, would I live with him? I think so, but I never came out with my parents and therefore in concrete it cannot happen and all in all, if it happened we would both lose our freedom and eventually our relationship would become a very standard thing as it happens in many couples. We love each other even if or maybe exactly because we are not a couple. When I haven't heard from him for a long time I miss him but I avoid calling him. Today, after we met, he said to me in greeting me, "Call me!" and this touched me a lot because it means that when I don't call him he feels that he's missing something.
I don't know what our relationship means but I'm glad he's there, he understands me, he respects me, he loves me and when I think of him a smile of tenderness comes to my lips. He says that the others don't understand him, that they tell him that he is strange, that he has no grit, no self-esteem, that he is always on the verge of giving up, that he doesn’t strive to get what he wants, but it seems to me the exact opposite. Either he behaves in a way with me and in a completely different way with others, but frankly I don't believe it, or there are people who are not in the least able to understand what they are despising.
He has never been miser in human relationships he has never made the account of giving and having, how can one not love a man like this? I believe that meeting  him was a fundamental event in my life, I met many guys but I never managed to build a deep bond with any of them, not even when we used to meet every day. There were always a thousand misunderstandings, a thousand equivocations. It has never been like this with him, sometimes I’m sorry to see that he doesn’t understand how important he is (but perhaps he understands it!) and how much weight he gives to judgments made by people who don't know him at all. Today we talked a lot about his last guy: he had no real dialogue with that guy, that guy didn't listen to him, that's why he felt hurt and very deeply uncomfortable.
My fear is sometimes that my presence may condition him and prevent him from living his true life, that’s why sometimes I try to keep him at a distance and to thin out our meetings, but he doesn't allow me it because he knows me deeply, and knows what I really want. When our story began, I didn't believe at all that I would have accepted to be with him in a relationship like the one that then came out. I wanted a guy of my own, because I was unable to imagine a way of loving outside of a bond more or less like a marriage: monogamy, absolute loyalty, coexistence, declaring oneself in front of parents to make a big family all together, at that time this was my way of reasoning.
But my coming out with the parents "fortunately" remained in the limbo of good intentions, because I understood that they would have taken it very badly anyway, and so the first pillar of my dream castle collapsed, then gradually the others too collapsed, without those pillars, according to my thought at the time, love would never have existed, but instead slowly I realized that my love story (because I consider it so) contradicted all the criteria that I initially had taken for granted, first of all it was born from a story of sex, that is, from a situation in which I would never have thought that something good could come out, even if it is true that between us there has never been only sex, there has never been mutual exploitation, we were afraid of feelings, we both considered them as traps and therefore we put everything openly in sexual terms.
We continued to love each other without any constraint and without any imposition, even when we lived our external stories, this is also something that I never would have thought possible before and instead it was just like that. Practically, one after the other, all those rules that had seemed to me essential to found a love story collapsed, but the more pillars collapsed the more I realized that the vault was not collapsing at all and that it had the strength to support itself, I practically discovered unconditional love. It took me time to understand that it was really love, because we never use this word between us, just to not get caged in words.
Our relationship has grown over the years, it has not been an a priori choice or a bet on the future, it has strengthened coming out unscathed from many difficulties and becoming  and more and more deep-rooted. One thing, if I think about it, has always struck me: we have never quarreled, there have been sometimes mildly aggressive manifestations but in no case did we ended up putting our relationship into crisis.
I don't know what will happen to us in the future. Slowly we are becoming aware that sex is more a pretext than the substance of our relationship. I often hear many guys who speak badly of those who have relationships like our, who consider them depraved, who speak of open couple as of something that allows you to do very freely whatever you want with sex while pretending to be with someone at the same time, but these are completely false models, we love each other, of this I have no doubts, he’s not a superficial guy who doesn't understand what he he’s doing, I trust him, he’s not at all a fool or a naive and then there is another thing that has always happened spontaneously between us: there are no secrets between us. It is something more unique than rare, we mutually recognize each other's maximum freedom but we know all about each other and nothing ever vaguely similar has happened to me in other stories where the unspoken was a very common thing.
He knows that we are somehow together but not because we have deluded each other, but because we have chosen each other as we are, including our small and large flaws and weaknesses. I often wonder why people don't believe in this kind of love, why they need rules, that they then end up transgressing anyway. We don’t have rules, however, we love each other, from the outside it all seems pathological, I realize it, but we really love each other and we don’t need rules and models of behavior. I don't know what I’m, he is an intelligent and honest man. We wait for the future without asking too many questions but now our present is beautiful for us because we have our certainties. When we embrace I feel that he’s there and I see that when he’s with me he’s serene, that the ghosts he carries inside himself go away and that he feels loved. Before, this expression seemed too much pretentious to me, but now I think it’s simply the truth, because I feel loved too.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-29-2020, 07:17 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

Hi Project,
I'm 29 years old, until two years ago, in practice, I only thought about studying and I also got good results. Now I have a job that I wouldn't have dreamed of before, but only now I’m realizing that it’s a job very rewarding but also very stressing ad I would say destructive, It causes much anxiety and exposes to great risks. Even if you work from morning to night you have nevertheless to go through moments of great tension that I don't wish anyone, that’s why I’m concretely meditating to change my job choosing a new job less rewarding but also less stressing, because I don't want to risk dying young to run after money.
I don't like social life, I have very few friends, and this is obvious if you don't have time even to breathe. As for sex I confess that I’m a regular consumer of pornography, I don't feel addicted to pornography, but when there is absolutely nothing else and time is also very little, even pornography, which at least has the advantage of not transmitting diseases, is fine.
In all the pornography I have seen sex is a very simple thing, you are in front of the guy you like who is waiting for you. Sex comes as the most natural thing and everything happens without any problem, but the fact is that all this has nothing to do with reality.
More or less four months ago I fell in love with a guy, and I'm trying in every way to organize my work commitments in order to be able to stay with him at least a little, but courting a guy takes a lot of time, first there is the usual doubt whether he's gay or not, and here too it is enormously more complicated than how they present it in porn movies. The uncertainties as to whether he was gay or not were many and the questions I used to ask myself about him were exactly those he used to ask himself about me. I tried to send him messages that he could understand, messages that seemed easily understandable to me, but he didn’t understand anything.
There are a lot of complicated things: first you have to understand if you can trust that guy, and it’s very difficult. Then there is the whole phase of making him understand but without exaggerating, taking two steps forward and at least one step back to prepare for a strategic retreat if the conditions are not favorable, then, when you understand that he is interested, you begin to ask yourself: " Interested in what? Does he like me? Or perhaps he’s just looking for sex with me? Is he interested in sex only? Or is he looking for what I too am looking for, that is, a true loving each other?" We are a lot far off spontaneity!
And then you would like to know everything about him but you cannot ask him anything, you say that you want to leave him all his freedom but your jealousy drives you crazy, and in the end when there is a that little intimacy that could also lead to sex, then it’s really an anguish, and problems keep you awake at night: “To make the first move or to wait? A caress? A little kiss? A deep kiss?” You never know what to do. And then you can't run too much, you can't take on a priori roles, you have to try to understand what he's looking for.
When you understand that perhaps he could or would like to be with you, then the most embarrassing questions come: “Can I begin to touch him in a clearly sexual way or do I have to wait for him to do it? Does sex have to be done silently? And what if it happens that he sexually doesn’t inspire me? And what if it comes out that he's a strange guy and I immediately regret having started a story with him? What if he’s addicted to sex but only to that? That is, if he doesn't care about me but only about sex?"
Yesterday on a porn site I saw a video I liked very much, it had nothing of porn in the sense, let's say, classic, it was a film showing naked guys in non-sexual attitudes. Two handsome guys, but not too much, who stand together naked on the beach and then in the water of the sea, and then play with each other, make the fight, behave just like two kids playing. In short, it was a nice video: no sexual intercourse, but a lot of tenderness, I liked it.
I wondered why producers go on with so much pornography, where there is no tenderness, instead of doing videos of this kind. I think these videos would appeal to gays a lot.
I also saw another video, let's say, not typically porn, maybe it was a piece of a serious film that ended up on a porn site almost by mistake. There was a little sex, more suggested than seen, there was a little nakedness, but little, and then there were dialogues between the two guys. The video was from Latin America. One of the two guys tells the other his story and it was a story of poverty and abandonment and the other guy comes close to him and embraces him, but it was all very realistic, that is, it was a love story, not a porn video, I was moved, and I’m a guy who is not easily moved.
Why aren't videos of this kind collected instead of porn? Videos with a little sex, yes, a little nakedness but also a little love! I didn’t know that there were videos of this kind, I found them by pure chance, and it was a nice discovery because at some point classic porn becomes tiring, boring, it is always the same thing, there are no actors and characters, there is no story, speech is reduced to nonsense.
I also saw a third video on the same site and this time of classically porn there was practically nothing. There were two guys who were tempted by the idea of trying one with the other, but the video was focused on the classical situations of embarrassment, stall, postponement, renunciation, hesitation, self-limitation, which are all things that you experience when you are really in love with a guy and you are afraid of losing him and you want to gain his trust, his respect, his affection. I saw myself in those scenes a lot. Obviously there is nothing easy!
In the past I have also seen gay movies, I mean non-porn movies. They are beautiful, but there is one thing that I don’t understand, or rather understand only partially: why don’t we ever talk about the story of a couple of guys but focusing our attention on them, that is, on the couple dynamics, those that matter most? Instead, we insist on the relationship with the outside world, with parents, with friends, with the homophobic social climate and so on. It's more a portrait of a social environment than a gay story. It’s true that gay guys can have the problem of coming out, of the relationship with their parents and everything else, but reducing the life of a gay guy, and even worst, of a gay couple, only to those things is as telling the story of a painter analyzing only the frames of his paintings completely neglecting the paintings themselves.
I have often dreamed of being a director of gay films (porn and non-porn), because everything can be done more or less artistically, and I think I could do my work quite well, with few but very clear rules. First of all, only one topic that concerns the gay couple, therefore I would eliminate at the outset any claim to tell the whole life of a gay or a long period of the life of a gay. Much better to focus only on a theme or only on a moment of life and that theme must be "normal", that is, it must be as least strange as possible. Unlikely stories, fantasy ones and those too much intertwined with other themes should be discarded a priori.
Secondly, the narration must be slow, through images, completely eliminating the banal and "filling" speeches, otherwise the film becomes a soap opera. The viewer must have the opportunity to become attached to the characters, to enter their psychology, to understand them. Words must be few and important and must end up printed in the viewer's mind. The filling chatter must be completely eliminated. The shots and atmospheres can help a lot, but they must be centered on the characters, who must be shown closely in the moments of their emotional reactions. Now I’m digressing a little too much, but you'll forgive me for this.
Then there is the problem of the subject and here I would make a very personal choice, because this is what interests me most. No very young guys who have yet to understand what it means to live a gay life and no depressed and disappointed elderly, I would like a story between thirty-year-olds who have no serious collateral problems, that is, who work, who live on their own, who have few relationships with their families of origin. I would take all previous classic gay experiences for granted.
I asked myself several times how I would choose the actors. I myself, when I go to see a movie, I’m not at all indifferent to whether or not the actor embodies my type of ideal guy, in fact I would say that it’s a very important thing. There is an element that makes me an actor particularly interesting and it is his way of smiling. I think I would choose the protagonists mainly on the basis of their way of smiling, their way of showing sweetness, tenderness.
Sometimes, reading some stories of the guys from Gay Project, I thought I would have liked to make a movie about those stories. Gay Project has become somewhat of a mine of possible gay-themed movie subjects.
End of the e-mail! It was a digression on my improbable director dreams. Thanks for listening to me. Obviously do whatever you want with the email.
Best wishes.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-25-2020, 11:05 AM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

Hi Project,
your site was recommended to me by a friend whom I respect very much and I went to have a look, in truth I had already heard of it but had never opened it. The forum is huge and very interesting but it is basically a monument to another era, now it is practically abandoned or almost. I like to read many different posts coming from people who think in various ways, on the forum there was a lot of such posts, but now there is nothing similar. Have you ever wondered why it ended up like this? I'm old now and I don't really feel like the most suitable person to preach to the boys, when I was young I couldn't stand old people who chatted too much, but now the boys are not in the least interested in your Project, they have other means to stay in touch with each other. 

The emails they send you are not really a cross-section of the gay reality, they come from people who in their way are aligned with the model of the Project, and so a small group of right-thinking people, let's say so, gathered, who sing and play whatever they like but are always among themselves. There are no dissonant voices, basically you don’t receive criticism and here I can enter the scene, because I come from gay experiences completely different from those of the Project. 

First of all I’m an openly out gay man, but people, given my age, over 65, don’t get upset too much, they don’t think that I’m gay, but that I have been gay in other years and then I ended up in the twilight of sex and instead it is not so. Project, I read your post on “gays and time”, well it smells of depression, you have to wake up. Why do you think there is an age beyond which it is not appropriate to have a partner? I have a partner, we often fight but then we make peace, we are two old men who fought their battles on the streets, even going to the pride half naked when we were already old. 

Yes, there is homophobia, I know it well too, but I don't like to think that it could prevail and that boys must be afraid of it, my partner and I have fought for this and continue to fight even now. I don’t think at all that closeted gay guys "don’t have the balls", to use your expression, I understand that in some cases it is very difficult, but if you don’t start to break the most deeply rooted and absurd social beliefs, they will tear us to pieces or will force us to bury us in the catacombs. I have lived in gay militancy for years, I organized clubs and groups and tried to avoid any selection, I tried to take everyone in. Sometimes behaving irresponsible they even messed me up. Many used to come to meetings just to look for someone to have sex with, that's it, Project, but there's nothing wrong with that. 

If you really want to be useful to something, you have to get out of the hole, you have to throw yourself into the fray, you are an intelligent man but you are afraid, and therefore you are yourself but only halfway, you start with the brake applied and stop yourself almost immediately. I too know a lot of gay boys but they are boys of another gender, a kind that you probably consciously or unconsciously kept away from. But do you know how much adrenaline unleashes going to the pride together with hundreds and hundreds of people who "openly" claim their identity? 

I never told the boys they had to come out but I certainly didn't discourage them. Project, you call it prudence but it seems like fear to me, and you shouldn't be afraid of anyone. Don’t think that openly gay guys and those closeted are two distinct worlds because it’s not so. Openly gay guys aren’t sexually ill persons, they need love like everyone else! I’m not saying that openly gay guys are better but only that they are not another planet. Of course they think in another way, they have other problems because they have made a different life, certainly freer and somehow more risky. 

There isn't, or better, here I agree with you, there should be no pride of being an openly gay guy, maybe that pride still exists but we have to overcome it, but rest assured that there isn't any pride in this email, I respect your work, for heaven's sake! But let's not make the war between gays, let's not segregate each other, let's try to understand each other's world, because seen from close up it's the same world. Go ahead with what you are doing but, please don’t be afraid and don’t raise fences.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-24-2020, 01:23 PM - Forum: Gay couples - No Replies

Hi Project, 

It’s since October 7th, 2019 that I had decided to write to you, I wrote drafts of emails that slowly became a kind of diary, to keep track of what was happening, but then I didn’t send you anything, now instead I’m sending you this diary, if I can call it so, because the situation has defined itself and I think it's important.
October 7th, 2019, Monday.
Dear Project, today I’m very nervous and I cannot let off steam with anyone. I don't know if you remember "XY33", I wrote to you almost a year ago and you replied telling me things that have been really useful to me, we also got in touch on skype, but then I didn't keep in touch anymore because, let's say so, I was able to continue walking alone, but today I'm furious, I'm angry, aggressive, near to explode. I work in a public office at a good level and I say it with pride because I'm an executive and being in a job like mine at my age is certainly not a common thing!  Where I work there are many people and unfortunately there is also a lot of hierarchy. 

My boss, who is someone who really matters at the political level, doesn’t want to do anything, or better he isn't able to do anything, he's always on the phone chatting about his personal problems and always downloads his work problems on us. Two or three of my colleagues (female colleagues) do twice the work they should do, because they also do the job of the boss who basically does nothing at all: he signs without reading and then when a mess breaks out he screams like a madman, but all this, if we want, is ordinary administration, more or less all the bosses do it with their subordinates. This is the common practice, I had to get used to it, but today I’m furious for another reason. This piece of shit, speaking with the two boot-lickers (the ladies who do his job in his place), allowed himself to do my caricature claiming that according to him I’m a "fagot", the ladies then told me everything, but if I asked them to testify what they said to me, I'm sure they wouldn't and they would deny everything.

There is a total omerta in the office. I have no relationship with the boss, although I should, in practice I only see him on television, when he acts like the first actor, and there he plays his role very well and manages to make fun of those who don’t know him and anyhow he would never have bothered to talk to me and even less, I think, he would have bothered to make fun of me, and just because of that I even had the doubt that the two boot-lickers (just to say the least!), I mean the two witches, had really invented all.

I really can’t imagine him while he imitates my gait and makes fun of me in such a vulgar way. I really can’t imagine such a thing. He’s an asshole no doubt, it can be taken for granted, but to imitate my gait he should know who I am and he must have seen me several times, but nothing like this has ever happened. Damn! ... I guess they were screwing me! Because there is also a ruthless careerism between us and every system is good for killing me. Did you understand the two witches? They wanted to put me against the boss, so they would have fun like two geese (which is who they are!). 

They would have enjoyed a lot seeing me torn to pieces by my boss and with this elegant ploy they would easily take me out of the circle of those who can make a career! You have to keep in mind that in the moments when I was most angry, I was about to go to the boss to vent even at the risk of losing my job, luckily I didn’t do it and thought to send you this email. In fact what they told me doesn't make sense! It just doesn't make any sense! That's why they raised the tone when they told me about it. It's okay that only they can go to the boss, but what I know about the boss is only what “they” told me ... Project, I think I was going to make a huge mistake.
October 14th, 2019.

Hi Project, I will attach a copy of the previous email (which I didn’t send you) and now I continue the story here. For the whole week I studied the behavior of the two vipers and there are many things that sound very strange to me. They are always by the boss. Always no, but often yes, so why when they talk about him separately with other colleagues they say and repeat in all ways that he’s an "asshole" and other similar epithets? If he's really what you say, why are you going there? Project, I have to understand how things really are. Is the boss an asshole? Ok, and you, then, who only talk about him with slimy contempt, what are you? You are worse than him because you keep one foot in two shoes and play the double game!
October 15th, 2019.

This morning the two vipers are back in the office with the story that the boss makes my imitation and I lost my patience and pretended to get angry and then to go to the boss to express all my irritation and ask him for explanations. I went to the boss but brought with me a folder of documents on which I needed clarifications, however the boss was not there and I asked for an appointment. Just before noon his secretary calls me and I go to talk to him with my papers hidden under my jacket. I go in, it's him, "the asshole!" He gets up to shake hands and makes me sit not in front of the desk but in the little sitting room nearby. To begin he asks me who I am, a clear evidence that he doesn’t know me, I explain it to him and then I move on to the concrete problem, showing the documents I have with me. He listens to me, then he quotes me an article from the last financial law, he tells me to go to the desk, he looks for and finds two recent court rulings of the Council of State and says: "I think we should operate this way, what do you think about?" I look at him in admiration and say to him: "I don't think there are more doubts!" He replies: "You have done well to raise the problem, please write an internal circular and bring it to me and I will sign it and the circular will be sent to the offices." Then we shake hands and he accompanies me to the door. 

In short, Project, this would be the "piece of shit", the one who does nothing from morning to night and makes fun of me imitating my gait! Now the game of the two vipers is clear. I go back to the office and "I don't want to talk to anyone" (clearly I'm acting), the two vipers must think that the boss has destroyed me, but I have to prepare the circular to bring to the boss and I can't waste time. In less than an hour the circular is ready, I call back the boss's secretary who tells me that the boss is waiting for me. I go there without saying anything to anyone, I give the circular to the boss, he says to me: "Put your initials on it, then I'll countersign it, the responsibility is mine, but you did the job." I add my initials and he countersigns and gives the text to the secretary, then he takes leave of me and says: "Thanks, you did a good job and did it immediately!" I go back to my office and try to be dark in the face. The younger viper wants to know what happened but I send her away rudely, almost shouting, saying I don't want to see anyone!
October 16th, 2019.

The circular arrives in the Office, I don't say a word, it ends up in the hands of the old viper who grimaces with his mouth, my initials on the circular, in place of hers, have particularly bothered her, so she decides not to speak to me anymore, what I don't mind at all, I took my revenge!
October 24th, 2019, Thursday.

Dear Project, the story is not over, there have been further evolutions. The boss values me a lot and asked me to do some research to clarify some points that seem very obscure. Practically every day I go to him to show him what I found or rebuilt and we talk about it together. He’s certainly 100% straight. While we were talking, his wife called him and when he was talking on the phone with his wife he was smiling. I made the gesture of getting up to go and wait outside to let him speak with due privacy, but he motioned me to stay and at the end he said to me: “If I didn't have my wife I would be buried under an avalanche of documents!" and smiled. Then I went away. Now the vipers are hardly seen around the boss’s office!
October 25th, 2019, Friday.

Today an elderly colleague, who will retire in a month and who is therefore not interested in social climbing, told me that the two vipers say that I’m a "fagot" and that now I’m courting my boss who he too is a "fagot"! To which I replied: "Of course being a spinster at fifty must be ugly!" and he laughed.
November 14th, 2019, Thursday

Everything is fine with the boss, but this is not what I would like to talk to you about, now I have to tell you a lot of things about something that is really changing my life. A new guy was to arrive at the office and the boss entrusted him to me for orientation and training in service, previously this task was the exclusive prerogative of the two vipers but this time they remained dry-mouthed. A couple of days later the new guy shows up, he's a beautiful guy in his early thirties, I'm 34! They told him I would be his tutor and he seemed happy with that. I infer from his resume that he is not married and has no children, but there are no other personal informations that might be interesting from my point of view me. 

His name is Luke, he is tall, blond, blue-eyed, he has a sexy voice like an actor of first order and he also has two fundamental and very rare characteristics, he is truly intelligent and he wants to work. Everything is fine with Luke, I feel very at ease with him, in short between us a perfect understanding has been created. After ten days he’s already very quick in work and competent in research on the repertoires of laws and judgments of the judiciary. Then I make up my mind to go and present him at the boss, who speaks very well about me and encourages him. From here on in the office everything is booming. Luke doesn't need any further training, he can do his job very well on his own and much better than me, even if it doesn't take much to do better than me. 

These are, let's say, the working aspects of my relationship with Luke, but beyond of all this, as you can imagine, there is everything else. I practically fell in love with Luke and I also have to be very careful at work so as not to elicit too much attention, I have to keep him at a distance and I have to limit contacts with him to the bare minimum. We never go out together, he goes out first, I see him walking away from the window and five minutes later I go out. Even if he were straight, what is obviously very probable, it would be "anyhow" a good friendship. Evidently in saying so I mean that I could appreciate Luke, at the limit, "also" as a friend, but I hope with all my might that he is gay.
December 3th,  2019, Tuesday.

I guess I dreamed too much! I’m very downcast. I feel like a total moron. Today, when he came out, there was a girl down waiting for him and they embraced and kissed. It was far away and I can't say if they kissed like friends or like lovers, but would a girl come and wait for a gay guy to leave work? No! Definitely no! So, dear Luke, goodbye! Our story is over and I go back to the usual melancholy. You could have been at least less handsome, less intelligent, less charming, at least I would have felt less frustrated, but no! Beautiful, intelligent, charming and STRAIGHT! Yet it had seemed to me that between us words where not needed, otherwise what is your intelligence for? I thought that you had understood everything, I even thought of asking you to meet after work, to go to dinner together, to spend a Sunday together and instead you stay with your girlfriend and you haven't even noticed me. Gay dreams vanished as clouds in the wind! I learned a very hard lesson! Goodbye, Luke, I hope you can live a happy life!
December 4th, 2019, Wednesday. 

Hi, Project, I'm confused, very confused. At 8.30 this morning Luke comes to my office (he never does such things!) And tells me that yesterday he would have liked to talk to me (I don't understand if about work problems or something else) then he continues almost casually: “but since there was a female friend waiting for me on the square I had to go away immediately." He had to talk to me? And what would he have told me? At the moment we have no work problems in common and then why give me explanations and tell me that there was a "female friend" waiting for him? But he said "a female friend", he didn't say she was "just a female friend"... Friend - girlfriend the two words sound quite similar but as for the meaning there is a big difference! In short, we agree that we will meet today at the exit, even if not right in front of the offices, but in a place that is on the opposit side from where the two vipers pass. 

I work not to think about what will happen at the exit, I have to be careful not to build castles in the air, however, as the exit time approaches, I feel more and more agitated. Half an hour before the exit, the boss's secretary calls me and tells me that the boss wants to see me, I go but the boss is in a meeting. I hope with all my strength that he will free himself immediately and tell me why he made me call because I don't want to leave Luke waiting for me, I could warn him with a text message but it would sound strange. Five minutes before the exit I decide and send the text message "Everything postponed, I'm sorry, I'm by the boss, he called me." At that moment I would have killed my boss. However, I could only wait. He lets me in after almost half an hour, after six politicians of those I've seen on TV come out of his office. He is very agitated. I dare not ask him what happened. 

As usually he makes me sit in the sitting room, he lets out a big sigh and then comes to the point and tells me that he thinks that there have been irregularities in some very important procedures and that he needs to check but cannot trust anyone, because there are spreading rumors about his office that have come to politicians and it is necessary to understand if the irregularities have occurred, and if there have been, of what extent and who made them. This is very important because if you understand all these things you can also get to understand who started the gossip. In short, the boss asks me to work in a separate room of his office, with his access codes to the information system (he will not let me know them, this is obvious, but he will access the services with his credentials and then I will be working on the system to find informations). I tell him it's okay, we shake hands, then, opening the door and he says: “We start tomorrow morning, ok? I recommend, maximum confidentiality." I nod my head and add: "You can take it for granted!" and I go away. 

But I’m not thinking about the boss or the possible cheating or gossip, I’m thinking only of Luke, I go running to the appointment place but Luke is not there, I feel discomforted, invaded by a black sadness, I send him an text message to apologize and I he replies: "Wait for me, I'm coming in a minute, I'm at the bar around the corner, I've been waiting for you." This answer makes me change mood, I just didn't expect it. He arrives after less than a minute, really beautiful as a god and asks me what the boss wanted, I downplay and concentrate on the fact that I was only sorry to make him wait and I was afraid that he would go away. I think I ask him how his female friend is, but I immediately remove this stupid thought. He tells me “What about eating something together?” The answer is obvious, it is late but there is a place where many tourists go which is open until early afternoon. There are people, too many people, there is not a minimum of privacy, an hour later we are out of the restaurant. 

I would like to ask him what he wanted to talk to me about, but I don't, I wait for him to make the first move and after a while he does it. He says to me: “I wanted to talk to you, but I think there is no need because from so many small things I realized you understood. What do I have to do?" I tell him: "I feel very happy and there is no need for any speech." Soon after, a terrible embarrassment took over, a mixture of anxiety and fear of having misunderstood, the speech had been very allusive but basically vague. An explicit speech would have been much more difficult but would have dispelled all the mists. I couldn't go on not even with the shadow of uncertainty and so this time I took the substantial step forward and asked him: "How did you understand that I fell in love with you?" and he replies: "Well, somehow a gay radar does exist!" After these words the state of happiness both his and mine was evident, we walked on foot until late in the night, and it was freezing cold! Then we said goodbye with a hug (the first hug with Luke!).
January 4th, 2020.

Dear Project, I have been with Luke for a month, it’s a beautiful but very complicated thing, we have a thousand problems. Our relationship is very tender. Luke has a lot of attention for me, we talk a lot, he told me his previous stories, absolutely nothing heterosexual, only two boys whom he then lost sight of, with the first perhaps he was in love, but he was not really in love with Luke and found another guy. With the second there were only a few days of sex, then it all ended because of mutual disinterest. I told him about my stories of ten years ago with one who then found something better and left after less than a month.
March 21th,  2020.
Between me and Luke there is a lot of embarrassment when we talk about sex, not when we talk about the sex that there has been before but when we talk about the sex we are supposed to have between us and on the other hand we only talk about it by phone because now we have to be isolated (because there is the Covid-19). Today he said to me: "How about we both get tested for sexually transmitted diseases?" I said yes, because his proposal was essentially also a sexual proposal, but who knows when it will be possible and therefore between us, at least now, no sex at all. Cuddling yes, and on the phone only, but nothing too much sexual. I had thought of propose him to use the cam, but it seemed like a bad idea. I'll wait! Obviously I masturbate thinking only of him and he probably does the same but this is a taboo topic and we never talk about it! You don't imagine how conditioned and anxious I feel, these long waits are unnerving and anyhow we have to do the test first, we just can't do without it.
May 5th, 2020.

We booked the HIV test, obviously we did it in the same institution but separately so as not to be labeled! Think how far paranoia goes! They gave us an appointment for June 5th and another month will pass by. I talk to Luke on Skype every evening for a couple of hours and I’m alwais admiring him because he’s really beautiful, it’s not me the one who is out of mind, it’s he who is beautiful! Now we are less clumsy and we talk about everything also about sex and masturbation even if we still talk about it "in general".
May 22th, 2020.

We ended up to have sex on cam. No embarrassment! It was an overwhelming thing and then he’s beautiful there too and he lives sex spontaneously, laughing, joking and above all participating in a very strong way. If I’m so involved on cam I imagine what it will be when we will do it in person. June 5th is near, but we still have 13 days left, I just hope they don't close everything again, otherwise this time too everything ends up in nothing . Now our speeches are finally explicitly sexual and without any embarrassment and I’m happy because before I was afraid he wasn't really 100% involved, but now this doubt has completely dissolved.
End of quotes! Now I will send you the email, then maybe I will send you another one after June 5th.
If you want, you can publish everything, because it seems to me that there are no references to sensitive elements in relation to privacy. I modified some things related to work environment and anyhow everything is quite vague, even if the atmospheres are exactly those.
I embrace you and hope to hear from you soon.


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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-22-2020, 01:53 PM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies

Hi Project, 
a few days ago, surfing the net, I found your forum and started reading. I must say that I was very impressed because there are no obvious things. I begin to read a story or an email and I imagine an ending a bit like in a porn video, but then the story doesn't work at all like that at all. Above all there is one thing that strikes me, there is also sex, but all in all it does not have a dominant position, it is not an obsessive idea, there is sex, it is important, but there are also feelings. Reading such things pleases me because I feel at home in them and I identify myself with some of the protagonists.
Let's talk a little about me. I’m 24 years old, I’m about to get my Master Degree and I feel realized from this point of view. I'm passionate about my studies which are not at all heavy for me, because I study things that I want to study. My family is not bad, my father is almost 60 years old, he has always tried to give me maximum autonomy, perhaps precisely because he knows that I would not abuse his trust, I have never been able to understand him, he treats me affectionately but I realize that I'm probably a concern for him, even if I don't understand why, since I never had problems with studying and I think that afterwards I won't even have problems finding work. I will come back later to this point because it is important, that is, it is important to me.
My mother is not yet 50 years old, she feels a beautiful woman and in the end she is. I see her as very calm and even absent-minded when it comes to me and my situation, a bit the opposite of my father, that is, she sees me as someone who will never have problems and who is going on very well. Then there would be my sister, who is 28 years old and who got married six years ago. There was never a real relationship with her, that is, we never spoke with an open heart and she was not substantially interested in my life.
You may have wondered why I didn't say "I'm gay" up to this point. Here, in reality, even if it is absurd at the age of 24, I still have many doubts, or rather I have no doubts but I find myself living a very particular situation. I have a girlfriend since I was 18, and she 15, I will call her Mary. I have to try to make you understand the meaning of our relationship because it is more complicated than it may seem from outside. I’m fine with Mary, that is, I love her, she’s a very good girl and she loves me too, but she’s very different from the other girls and perhaps for this reason I really love her. We have been together for almost 6 years and have never had sex and not even things that vaguely resemble sex. She never asked me and never made me understand that she needs also sexual involvement.
Some things are paradoxical: in public she’s very loose with me, kisses me on the mouth, caresses me, but when we are alone (which also happens rarely) there is none of this. Basically this is the reason why we stay together: I don't feel cornered, for me, in essence she is a friend, a true friend but nothing else, that is, she’s not my girlfriend in the sense that guys generally give this expression, and there is also another reason, she not only doesn’t put me in a tight spot in order to induce me to have sex but when we talk, and at least we talk a lot on the phone, she never asks me for explanations, that is, she accepts our relationship as it is, without asking me and without asking herself questions of any kind. If we don't meet on a Saturday, I just need to say that I can't and she won't even ask me why.
I want to emphasize that she considers me an important person. Last year I went to the hospital for a small surgery and she came to all the relatives' visits and she didn't miss the visit a single time, she did it also because my parents were there and she had to play the role of the official girlfriend, but if my parents weren't there, she would have come all the same.
Project, I asked myself many questions about Mary, but I should have asked her those questions, but as she has always respected my privacy, so I too have always respected hers and I know very well that I must not pester her and I must not meddle in her things.
Now I go back to my father. I think he’s worried because, despite Mary's efforts to do her best  as girlfriend, my father begins to suspect that there is something strange about our engagement. We meet but it is clear that there is not all the involvement that should be there. I suspect that my father blames Mary for all this, that in essence he accuses her of being cold and detached, almost of playing the role of the girlfriend at best but not feeling in that role at all.
My father thinks that the relationship with Mary makes me suffer but it is not at all like that, indeed the relationship with her calms me down, gives me serenity. In fact, my relationship with Mary is out of all the rules, she never talks about marriage and on the contrary in the speeches that are made with friends she has said many times that marriage is not needed if you love each other and it is a slavery in any other situation.
And now something about me. I know I've always been gay, I've never had sexual interests for a woman, yet, I will tell you, Project, I think that living with Mary would be good and I never thought the same thing of a boy. We could be a couple without sex and at best with a little pampering, but sometimes I think that she would never accept a "bond" with me.
I want to be explicit. All the other women don't interest me at all, but Mary does, that is, it makes me tenderness, apart from the fact that I always wonder what is behind her behavior. I thought that she could be a lesbian, and she really could be, and the fact that she never spoke of such a possibility avoiding even the slightest hints, certainly does not eliminate suspicions, because I too have never spoken to her about my homosexuality. But not having talked about it, after all, is not a reticent behavior, that is, it is not a deception, we know very well that each of us has a private life and that that private life must be respected.
On the gay side, so far, I have never had a story or anything similar to a story. I have a lot of fantasies and I go on with those and with some porn. Today as today the relationship with Mary doesn’t complicate anything for me, but what if I find a guy? I don't know what could happen. I think that for Mary practically nothing would change and that maybe she would be happy too, the fact is that having a boyfriend is not compatible with having a girlfriend who has known your family for years. And then how could I tell my father that I'm gay?
Mary also gave me a strange speech, she told me that if today or tomorrow our relationship ends, she would absolutely not make it a tragedy, we could remain friends as well and she said it with full conviction. I mean, Project, I like this girl. Sex has nothing to do with it, but I like her because she thinks like me, and between us, unlike what my father thinks, there is a practically perfect harmony. Project, I’m not cheating Mary and she’s not cheating me. Asking for explanations seems clearly out of place because I also don't want to give explanations and then I believe there is no need for explanations. Even with my father I think it will go on like this. I don't see any need to clarify. Then, if I would happen to find a boyfriend, then I will ask myself a lot of questions, but now, in my opinion, things must go on like this. What do you think about it?
p.s.: If you want to publish this email do it freely. I have changed something of the details but the story in substance is that.

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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 05-20-2020, 01:50 PM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies

In the career of an athlete, sooner or later the time comes to choose the day on which he will have to withdraw from competitive activity. Some argue that the ideal time to retire coincides with that of maximum success, others have different opinions, but the fact remains that if the time to retire is too much postponed, the athlete ends up being considered a survivor and, in practice, a caricature of what he was in better times.
In the life of ordinary people there are many moments of choice and each of them marks the transition to a further phase, if we want more mature and more aware, but from which there is no going back. Obviously "there is a time for everything" and this also applies to gays. There is a time to understand that you are gay and one to accept it, there is a time to fall in love and a time to be indifferent, a time to long for a partner and a time to long for solitude, a time to hope, a time to get busy and a time to forget. Time limits are generally elastic but cannot be postponed indefinitely. This means that they are choices that must in any case take place and that only the determination of when is left to us, and many times with very strong restrictions.
The time limits within which to make a choice or behave in a particular way are defined with two different criteria, that of possibility and that of opportunity. Both, despite appearances and with a few exceptions, are very nuanced criteria. The possibility is defined by physical or legal parameters: you cannot choose to civilly join another person before the age of 18, because law doesn’t allow it, and you cannot decide to retire at any age, because law sets precise deadlines, but you cannot even think of bringing help to a person who needs it when you are no longer in suitable physical condition to do so. The criteria of necessity, although sometimes even very elastic, have an intrinsic cogency, in the sense that if it is true that something can become increasingly difficult over time, without any theoretical limit, it is true, that after a certain time that “something” will become so difficult as to be in fact impossible.
The opportunity is something radically different from the possibility, it is a social criterion and is therefore questionable, as in the case of this statement: "It is appropriate to start a coexistence when you are between 23 and 35 years old!" In this case "appropriate" means socially accepted and nothing more, which means that making the choice of coexistence beyond certain time limits exposes to social discredit for failure to comply with the social rules of opportunity, but nothing prevents that coexistence can begin at any age.
So far I have talked about possible and opportune choices, which are in any case choices, that is voluntary and conscious acts, but the problem of "time" sometimes arises even in a very heavy way in relation to the acceptance of inevitable things such as disease and death itself, realities that induce defensive behaviors, aimed at denying the problem or relegating it to a future to which we try in every way to give the halo of uncertain and hypothetical.
I don’t intend here to address universal problems such as that of the acceptance of death, on which too much has been written, but I would rather focus on the problems related to the choice of times by gays in issues that are typical of gays. Among these problems there is the choice of the time of coming out. It is true that coming out is not an obligatory choice and therefore the full determination of whether or not to come out is left to our freedom, but certainly coming out at 15, 25, 50 or 80 has very different meanings and purposes, that is the time, in this case, qualifies the action in a substantial way.
Among the problems connected to the better times for the "forced" choices, there are those related to attitudes and behaviors that undergo an inevitable deterioration connected to the passage of time. It is not said that you have to live as a couple, you can also live as a single and, at least in theory, there is no time limit to start a couple life, but on the other hand, if the couple life must really be a couple life and not a substitute for a mutual assistance relationship, there are certainly times "within which" that choice must be made. Also in this case, going to live with your partner at 20, 40, 60 or 80 has very different meanings and purposes.
When we talk about gays in general we mean referring to a particular subset of gays and that is to say young gays, and we identify as classic gay problems the discovery of being gay, the acceptance of being gay, the coming out, the looking for a partner and the building a couple's life or friendships within which to live one's own affectivity-sexuality. All these things, as it is easy to notice, refer mainly to young gays, but identifying gays with gay boys who go to the disco on Saturday night means forgetting that being gay is a fact that pervades the entire life of an individual up to at its end. Nobody talks about middle-aged gays (50 years old) or sick ones, or old ones who end up in nursing homes. They too were young, certainly in other periods, and then they grew old, but they are still gay.
The dimension of flowing time is often neglected or forgotten even in the use of words and we sometimes refer to one's age group as if it were something stable and not something subject to change due to the passage of time. Young people reason as if the category of "young" were their stable characteristic, forgetting that they are young "now" but they will no longer be in twenty years and old men try to evade the evidence that they are old "now" but in twenty years, and perhaps much earlier, they simply will no longer exist.
A gay man, like any human person, follows a parable from birth to death. The acceptance of homosexuality or the coming out or the search for a partner are classic gay problems which are either exclusively gay, like the acceptance of homosexuality and the coming out, or they are universal, like the search for a partner, but, for gays they take on a so particular and specific connotation that they become problems substantially different from those of hetero people.
I will now try to deal with three typically gay problems from the point of view of the times:
1) The acceptance of one's homosexuality
2) The coming out
3) The search for a partner
Let's start from the first topic.
To clear the field of possible misunderstandings, I must start by saying that I will only speak of guys who are properly homosexual, not bisexual. Acceptance is not in itself a problem, because experience teaches that in environments where there is no homophobia and there is a correct sex education (as in Scandinavian countries), the acceptance of homosexuality by boys coincides with puberty. Genital sexuality already has a homosexual connotation at its birth, the thing is not a taboo, it is possible to talk about it without problems in the family, with classmates and with friends of the same age or even adults without meeting questioning and perplexed looks. Summing up, in an atmosphere of this kind homosexuality is a normal fact and to say: "I’m gay" is not a problem, as it is not to say: "I’m straight". The two are both part of the domain of normalcy.
Of course, imagining a society without homophobia means thinking only based on theoretical concepts, however, there are societies that reflect that model quite faithfully and in which homophobic attitudes are objectively rare; and at the other end there are societies in which homophobia is instilled through religion and becomes a common cultural heritage and is sometimes even protected by law as a value capable of moralizing society.
May 17th is the world day against homo-, bi- and trans-phobia. This date was chosen because thirty years ago, on May 17, 1990, the World Health Organization finally removed homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses! Even today, despite repeated appeals coming from the European Parliament, there are countries within the European Union that don’t recognize any legal legitimacy for homosexual unions. In Italy civil unions between people of the same sex were introduced with the Cirinnà Law, Law 20 May 2016 n. 76. In some countries, such as Italy, there is no specific law for the suppression of homophobia, but outside Italy there is much worse, always in the European Union, in Hungary and Poland, levels of discrimination on a homophobic basis are widely covered and protected by law and institutions, but it is enough to look beyond the Atlantic to see, under the Trump presidency, the resurgence of homophobic attitudes, not only not repressed but encouraged and legally protected. In some Islamic countries homosexuality is still punished today with the death penalty, a death penalty which is in itself and in any case a sign of incivility. I remember incidentally that on November 30, 1786, 234 years ago, Pietro Leopoldo of Habsburg-Lorraine, Grand Duke of Tuscany, abolished the death penalty in his Grand Duchy without exception, paving the way for a modern criminal code. It was the first explicit abolition of the death penalty in the world. But let's get back to the topic. On the occasion of the world day against homophobia, the President of Italian Republic, Sergio Mattarella, took a very clear position stating that homophobia violates human rights whose respect is necessary for the full development of the personality. In essence, homophobia deprives homosexual people of the serenity necessary for the full development of their personality and compels them to stressful defensive behaviors that effectively limit their individual freedom.
In the various countries of the world homophobia manifests itself in various ways and degrees and consequently the acceptance of one's homosexuality becomes a more or less serious problem depending on the pressure that environmental homophobia is able to exert, such pressure can go from simple cancellation of any reference to homosexuality, up to violent bullying by the family itself and work colleagues and in some cases the consequences can be extreme, as it happens in the film "Viharsarok", a Hungarian film of 2014, released also in English with the title "Land of Storms", in which a gay guy suffers homophobic environmental violence, exercised on him in such a systematic and persecutory way, that to free himself from the induced "guilt feelings" related to homosexuality, he ends up to kill the his partner. In this case the murder, more than to the exasperated guy, it must be attributed to the environmental homophobia that led him to that extreme gesture. In situations such as those described in this film, accepting one's homosexuality is truly dramatic. But between the extreme levels of the radical absence of environmental homophobia and of the violent homophobic climate there is an infinite gradation of attitudes, more or less aggressive and more or less persecutory.
Becoming aware of one's homosexuality when homosexuality is openly subject to social discredit, because it is considered a psychiatric illness, a behavior against nature, a moral degeneration or a guilty "choice", is objectively difficult. It is not a matter of declaring yourself gay publicly but simply of accepting that you are who you are, but in order to accept that you are who you are, you must become aware of the absurdity of what is commonly told about homosexuality, therefore you must have access to objective information not spoiled by ideological prejudices and you must realize that, due to the effect of environmental homophobia, a gay guy will never be able to freely express his way of being and loving. But all this is not enough, because once you have acquired these awareness, sometimes the idea of having to integrate in any case into the world of others dramatically takes over. But for a gay guy this means forcing himself to live a fake hetero life, that is, forcing himself to play the role of a straight guy even through marriage, or simply to put aside sexuality altogether, perhaps sublimating it in work or in something so "high" that it appears worthy of such a sacrifice.
Those who live in Western European countries tend to give the word homophobia a reductive meaning, because they see homophobia as a fact "still present" and perhaps "still faintly present" but destined to disappear anyway and not as a distressing and heavily persecutory problem, as it is still today in many countries of the world. The problems of homosexuals do not come from homosexuality but from ignorance and prejudice and for this reason, the real solution to those problems consists in the diffusion of a free and honest culture able to provide gays with the indispensable tools to understand and judge consciously and in the same time to provide others the means to prevent homophobia, against which the only effective antidote is true culture, which undermines prejudices and accustoms the brain to think autonomously.
The time that elapses between puberty and the acceptance of one's homosexuality by a gay boy represents the measure of environmental homophobia which, of course, is far from uniform within a state and indeed has very strong local components, linked to individual communities and even to individual families. I would add that traditionally religions, and I would say above all the great monotheistic religions, have always been directly and indirectly among the main sources of inspiration for very deep homophobic sentiments.
In conclusion, the time of awareness is not in substance an autonomous individual characteristic, but is the result of the widespread cultural climate in which we find ourselves living.
What has been said about environmental homophobia in the previous section obviously also applies in relation to the problem of coming out. However, a clarification must be made: the problem of "coming out" is a problem that has arisen only in recent years. Already in my time, 50 years ago, the idea of coming out (I’m obviously speaking of public coming out) could have had some connotation of concreteness, perhaps, for some movie star or for some super-billionaire, but also in Western Europe, it didn't even touch the brains of gay boys, as today it doesn't even touch the brains of boys who live in Iran. Today, in Western Europe and in the USA, the idea of a coming out limited to a more or less restricted group of reliable people is much more common than the idea of a coming out without limitations. Still today the idea of public coming out is not taken seriously as a possible hypothesis by the great majority of gays, because the consequences of a public and generalized coming out can be and have been in fact disruptive even years later. In Italy, of course, there are no laws that discriminate against homosexuals, but homophobia exists all the same and is exercised in an undeclared but substantially effective way. To dismiss a gay employee, an employer can’t at all motivate the dismissal with the sexual orientation of the employee, he must be able to carry out targeted mobbing actions to obtain a "voluntary" resignation or may resort to disciplinary proceedings based on a real presumed fault of the employee. It is true that it is possible to appeal to the employment judge but it is expensive and in any case with an uncertain outcome and so homophobia, if properly hidden, can continue undisturbed to do its job.
In general, the coming out with close friends is today much more anticipated than in previous generations. Many youngsters already at 14-15 have confided their homosexuality to their most trusted friends, although the cases in which these confidences are delayed even by 5 or even 10 years are not uncommon. The specific environmental situations condition these postponements much more than general rules and prudence itself do.
Among the forms of restricted coming out, coming out with parents is of particular importance and has a rather characteristic timing. Given that coming out with parents is still an uncommon thing (3-4%), even if it is spreading, albeit in a very limited way and slowly over the years, I observe that or coming out with parents happens very early, between 14 and 16-17 years of age, or is postponed indefinitely, using a formula more or less like this: “I will only tell my parents about my homosexuality when I’m economically independent, because thus, if the climate were to become unlivable, I could permanently break up my family relationship." That this type of postponement is actually a definitive removal of the problem can clearly be deduced from the fact that no "coming out" with the parents follows the achievement of economic independence. The cases of coming out with parents of adult and cohabiting gay sons are very rare and in general they are the seal of a very rare dimension of respect and substantial family affection.
I come now to the last subject that I had proposed to face: the time of the search for a partner. Here it is not a question of carrying out an action in this or that moment or of reaching an awareness in tis or that moment, it's not question of defining the time of an action that is substantially "punctual" but of defining a period, normally very long, in which the research of a partner can materialize. The time of searching for a partner therefore has a beginning and an end, normally located in very distant phases of life. For a young man it makes sense to ask himself when it is possible or it is appropriate to look for a partner, for a mature man it makes sense to ask himself when it becomes impossible or at least inappropriate to look for a partner, obviously these are extremely different situations both of which are part of the gay dimension.
For a teenager, there is nothing more unwelcome than being told: “Wait! You have to grow up! Before making your choices you have to mature! " The word maturity has become so important that at least in Italy it has given its name to the exams that conclude high school. Before the high school final exam (“maturity exam”) all the choices are actually made by the parents, after the high school final exam there is the first real choice made by the boy, which is the choice of the university faculty. It is an extremely important choice that often young guys faced with the total unawareness that they are about to decide something fundamental for the future, in other words, such an important choice is made on the basis of the hearsay, without collecting serious information and often pursuing the intent to please the parents by adapting to their expectations. In other words, very often the choice of the university faculty is faced in a deeply immature way.
An adequate level of maturity is also required for the search for a partner, the phenomenon is not substantially different from the choice of university faculty. To look for a partner you should have a realistic idea of the true life of a couple of gay men and you should also understand why many gays don’t like the couple life, but not only, you should also know where to look for a serious partner and how to behave in the initial stages of a possible relationship, but also in looking for a partner guys rely on the hearsay and very often choices are made in an immature way. A serious sex education and a specific information on the true experiences of other gay guys would be very useful and would favor informed choices built on the basis of reliable data, but, at least in Italy, sex education, which until a few decades ago was in entrusted in fact only to the church, is now delegated, also this time “in fact”, only to pornography and dating sites. In such a situation it is inevitable that guys make immature choices and make mistakes of various kinds, which result in states of unease, intolerance and frustration.
Just as science proceeds by trial and error, also the acquisition of experience in the emotional and sexual field proceed by trial and error. If you learn from experience and don’t make the same mistakes again, then the experience makes you grow up and the vision of relational and couple problems becomes more and more mature. If, on the contrary, experience easily put aside and one enters a vicious circle within which the same mistakes are repeated, even if with different people, one never manages to accumulate an experience that allows conscious and mature choices.

The search for a partner is precisely a search and can end with the creation of a stable couple, or at least hypothetically stable at the beginning, but it can also lead to a long and more or less frustrating series of attempts that anyhow contribute to the maturation of an experience on the basis of which the criteria for continuing the research can be refined, expectations can be reduced and previous experiences can be differently assessed.

Among the many possible determinations to which the experience accumulated in the search for a partner can lead there is a very particular one which is the decision to end the search, because lowering expectations too much or waiting without any time limit for the arrival of the ideal partner means in essence trying to settle for something that will not be satisfactory anyway or wasting your time in an activity that is likely to not achieve any result. The conclusion of the speech can be summed up with the expression: “Enough! I can't waste years and years of my life running after dreams that probably will never come true!" Certainly, the affective-sexual life will continue anyhow, but as for the future at least the couple model of "two hearts and a hut" will be put aside. At what age does all this happen? First of all it should be clarified that this is not a formal decision taken in a precise moment but something that matures slowly over the years and gradually takes on greater concreteness. The heavier the series of frustrations we have faced, the faster we reach these decisions.

Let's admit that there has been someone who has accumulated few experiences and all in all just a little frustrating or who has perhaps accumulated many disappointing experiences but is animated by an indomitable enthusiasm, in such cases the decision to say "Enough!" it may not mature at all and, at least in theory, the search for a partner could go on without time limits. But the passage of time creates so profound physiological and psychological transformations that many of the motivations that had been the basis of the search for a partner in youthful years and also during maturity, become much less strong and fade away due to the passing of time. Sexual libido is no longer that of youth, the desire for novelty is clearly reduced, health is no longer something which can be taken for granted and any change in the pace of life becomes problematic. In essence, the problems of the couple life, in the individual balance, end up prevailing over the possible advantages. In this way the couple's life loses its charm and solitude becomes, for a few more years, the most accessible surrogate of bliss. All this obviously lasts as long as solitude remains in fact a manageable hypothesis, that is, as long as individual physical autonomy lasts.

I would like to close these reflections with a passage of an email I received about ten days ago from a thirty-two-year-old guy, that can help to understand a way of dealing with the search for a partner that is increasingly spreading today.

"... I had a lot of guys, they were good guys, but I wasn't in love with them, with some of them I tried to build something, but when the basic push is missing there is little to do, in the end you can't build anything. I also fell in love with some guys but they didn't care about me. I had a decent guy with whom I felt not so bad, although I wasn’t really well. With him, perhaps, I could have built something, but he was afraid of everything, he was hypochondriac, he was even afraid of touching me, and after a series of steps forward and backward he preferred to leave than to overcome his fears.
At the end of all these stories what's left? I lost years and years of my life and I realized that maybe being alone is not the worst solution in the end and then, I'm not alone, I don't have a boyfriend but I have many friends, I have a job that is not that great but at least it keeps me calm from that point of view. I don't know if there will ever be a guy for me, but I'm tired of thinking about these things! If that guy will come then I will think about him, but for me the time for chats and dating sites is really over."

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