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GAY SUNSET Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-23-2018, 10:59 AM - Forum: Gay seniors - No Replies Hello Project, I think you have more or less my age, and then I think you can understand certain feelings I feel. When I was a boy nobody talked about gays, at least not as a normal thing, so, also because of the absolute isolation of gays at that time, I never had a partner, only in recent times, in practice as an old man, I met gay friends of all ages, they are quiet people and I'm fine with them, but obviously, except for the few afternoons we spend together, loneliness looms. There are also relatives it’s true, but with them it is as if I was living another life totally formal. By now I'm the old uncle about whom nobody cares.  The health is what it is therefore I begin to get used to the idea that the future will not be very long for me and then I would like to achieve something before closing shop, but I have a thousand doubts, well it is in these moments that I would need a partner to decide, to give me an impulse in any direction, but over all to get me out of the continuous oscillations that lead me to never do anything. Now I cannot procrastinate, there is a time for all things and now it’s time to choose and to achieve, but basically there aren’t things that have more charm to me than others, I don’t have to share anything with anyone. Among my gay friends there are also guys of 25/30 years and they make me tenderness, they treat me with respect and also affectionately but for me they are like children, they have a future ahead and have a concrete world to achieve, I am at sunset.  What to do? Have I to avoid choosing, as I have always done, postponing everything endlessly, or Have I to throwing myself somewhere to do something concrete? Project, I don’t talk about sex or love stories, now I live in another dimension, I talk about going to live somewhere else, in another neighborhood, maybe, more than in another city, in a place suitable for elderly people, but it would still be going to live alone in another place and it does not make too much sense, maybe it would make sense to live in the countryside, but alone in the countryside at my age it’s risky, having doctors and hospitals too far for me it’s dangerous. I begin to see in front of me the years when I will not be self-sufficient, if I don’t go away even before.  It  is strange how things are still indefinite and I irremediably continue to waste time, even when time is objectively short. At least I have gay friends who sometimes call me and luckily I'm not in the hands of a caregiver. I take my liberties, I get up late, I only use plastic dishes and glasses to avoid washing them, I buy things already cooked to avoid cooking, I plan my visits to the post office in order to go there as little as possible, etc. etc. . What's left of gay in my life? In practice there are only my gay friends, it is not a trivial thing and I'm happy that they are still with me, however, now life has gone and things ended up this way.   GAY DIGNITY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-22-2018, 10:04 PM - Forum: Parents of gay boys - No Replies Hi Project, I allow myself to call you so,  as everybody do, as far as I see. Congratulations for your blog and for the forum, lately I have spent a lot of time on the forum because I wanted to understand the lives of other gay guys. And really I gained a correct knowledge about such arguments.    But now the thing that complicates my life more is not being gay, I know in practice that I'm so since I was little, my real problem (but maybe it’s not even a problem) is that recently I gave a radical breakthrough to my life because at my house, or better at my parent’s house, I felt spied on.   I turned 18 a few months ago and I thought I would be entitled to some privacy and instead I didn’t have any privacy. My parents are relatively young 41 years my father and 39 my mother, so in theory a bit of dialogue there could also be, they are not bigots and in many things like going out at night or staying to sleep by friends they have never created problems , and then they are from the left, always talk about freedom, about this and that but never about freedom of gays!   Once a couple of years ago I was with them and with a group of daddy's friends and the talk about gays came out, while the others really seemed people who think that between a gay and a hetero there is no difference, for my father it was not like that, he used to put on “if” and “but” and such a thing gave me an enormous annoyance.   But this was two years ago and then it was just me the one who knew that I was gay, only I knew it and they certainly didn’t suspect it in the least. In February of this year the usual speeches began to come out: "All your friends have a girlfriend" but so only mentioned, without even adding the rest, because it was anyhow very clear, I was caught off guard and I reacted a little embarrassed. From this I believe the suspicions and the witch hunt began.   Apparently it was all like before, but I noticed something strange in the speeches and in the tone of the voices and I didn’t like it at all. Do you have anything to say? Well, then come on! Do it openly! But hypocrisy I cannot stand it at all!   Project, you must understand that in my house I have never had anything gay except in the computer. Until a short time ago I didn’t even have a computer of mine and I accessed the internet from that of dad and when they began to suspect I still used dad's computer, who, being administrator, could access all the files, even mine, as well if they were password protected.   After the talk about my friends who have a girl, which had put me very alarmed, I immediately opened the computer and deleted all the gay files, even those most vaguely gay. I used to keep them all in a special folder where it was written "Exercises of Mathematics", but evidently sometimes, in a hurry to close everything (because when my parents arrived suddenly, they didn’t have to find me on gay sites), I must have left behind a file "vaguely gay" (then I’ll tell you what it is, because it concerns you) out of the folder, so when I changed the contents of the folder and I actually put there the true math exercises that I had kept elsewhere, I forgot to delete the "vaguely gay" file that was left out. What do I mean by "vaguely gay"? I mean no photos, no videos, and here I come to your forum, in fact I had made a copy of the post "How I realized I was gay" because I liked it too much. I, after deleting the contents of the "Exercises  of Mathematics" folder, felt calm  since I thought there were no more gay files in the computer, and I had also cleared the “recent files” section on Word that resulted perfectly empty.   I started using the computer even when there were my parents, as I had never done before. A little time after the speech about friends who have a girl, I open the computer (if you remember, before closing it the last time, I had obviously deleted all the chronology and the “recent files” on Word), the chronology is still empty, I think it is clear that no one has put his hands on the computer, but then I open Word and I click on “file” and  on “recent files” I see "How I understood to be gay". But I had perfectly cleared that section … it’s a clear sign that my father has opened that file and had read it.   The world had literally felled on me, I felt a horrible feeling, just to be badly caught red-handed, the feeling of being spied on by my father who had come to understand. I swear to you, Project, a horrible feeling. If I want to tell you, I must tell you! But you don’t have to be spying on me, something like that is shameful. Anyway I felt really badly. I expected that in a few hours the showdown would have come, now I was determined and I would have told him everything anyway, I had been discovered and I had nothing to lose, it was March 21 (first day of spring and I had just 18 years), I will never forget that day because it marked my total divorce from my family.   Contrary to the predictions, my father, when he returned home, didn’t say anything and I hated him for this and he did as if not nothing had happened, practically from the 21st of March between me and my parents there was no more a serious relationship, only hypocrisy.   Ah, I remember now an important thing, when I turned 18 (early March) and they already suspected something, they had proposed me to have a party at home and I had sent them to hell  (Project, I had written another expression but I changed it out of respect for you!), I had sent them to hell with education that is with hypocrisy because the party at home served to spy on me in situation and only for this.   My parents are in good economic condition and, perhaps unconsciously, but perhaps not, they thought they were very important to me at least from that point of view. Well, I didn’t want to know anything about their money and their hypocrisy. I'm a gay guy, I'm alone and maybe I'll always be alone, my problem is not that of  finding a guy, I live well alone, my problem is to be free, not dependent on anyone and less than ever on my father and my mother. I started doing some chores in the afternoon, I work from 15.00 to 20.00 in a pizzeria to prepare all the material for the chefs for the evening, they give me 500 euros a month, but it's my money.   My parents didn’t know where I was going in the afternoon, but I went to work, and to do a job that would have seemed absolutely unacceptable to them, but for me it was a liberation, I used to come home dead of exhaustion, because they made me work hard, and I put myself to study, at school I lost positions, first I was good, then I settled for the passable, but I felt free. I no longer asked for money for clothes or shoes, I paid for everything with my money, I bought only very cheap things, but they were mine! I got also to buy a laptop because I hadn’t used anymore my father's computer and finally I put there everything I wanted, I activated many passwords and I always left it around.   My parents didn’t understand who had given me the money to buy the computer and were worried, I don’t know, they perhaps thought that I was prostituting myself or that I had found a lover much older than me who had given me expensive gifts, but I left them fry and I answered only: "It's my business". My father has been stupid enough to make the big voice: "As long as you stay here we must know what life you do!" I swallowed the bitter morsel because I could not reply but I worked hard to found a radical solution, I had insisted with the pizzeria and they hired me as a waiter, I had to work every night from 19.00 to 24.00 and on Sundays all day from 10.00 to 24.00, I take 900 euros of pay, but these are regular things, it's a terribly tiring job and sometimes in the evening I cannot even stand up, but I can survive alone.   Through the pizzeria I was able to meet a lady who rented a little apartment in the suburbs for 300 euros a month, a rather shabby place, on the top floor, without a lift, with a piece of land in front of it that looks like a dump, but it's mine! When I signed the contract I went to my parents' house, packed up my things and left without saying anything to them. They didn’t even call me on the cell phone, then I heard that they had known from some friends of theirs that I was working at the pizzeria because they didn’t know it before, and that was enough for them to feel reassured.   Now, since the school is over, I also do other chores and I also do two shifts at the pizzeria and I have to put aside some money because the next year I have graduation exam and I will have to study more and therefore I can work less.   Now my apartment is very nice, I cleaned everything up so that it looks like a little gem. There's also a nice terrace, bigger than the house, and I've put there a few plants.   Project, I tell you something absurd, I would like so much that you could come and see "my house". I don’t know if I'll ever find a guy, I think it will happen (and maybe it has already happened, but I'm going slowly), I want him serious, I want him with balls, I don’t like people who complain themselves.   Now there is a guy I like in the pizzeria, he's one who works hard, he has just arrived, is a little older than me, 21, and is called Luke, I went to work for anger against my parents, he works for necessity because his family doesn't have much money. When we are at work, Luke and I cannot talk, but he lives not far from my house and when we finish the shift we take the night bus together and talk a bit.   He's very shy for a 21 years old but he's a very good guy, I don’t know if he's gay or not, I swear, for me the important thing is not to take him to bed, but that he loves me and he really loves me and I feel it.   One morning he came to my house, he gave me many compliments and I was happy, and then he has a way of smiling, a kindness of mind, a sweetness that for me falling in love with him is the most natural thing in the world. I have a dream that in that little house we can also live in two. I know that he’s working in order to support his family, once I went also to his home and they welcomed me very well and I'm happy for him because he has been lucky enough to have a family as it should be.   You know, Project, I don’t think about sex, apart from the fact that I arrive at the end of the shift absolutely destroyed, I don’t think about it because I'm fine, I have Luke nearby and that's enough for me, as a friend and not as my boyfriend but I don’t really care about such a thing and he too is happy when he is with me, we talk a lot, he also told me about a story with a girl, two years ago, but added immediately that it was not something he really felt. I never say anything too demanding, I tell him that I'm happy to talk with him and that we are friends, once I mentioned that in the house it was also possible to stay in two and he told me that he would like it too and he gave me a beautiful smile.   Project, now I feel happy, but right in the deep meaning of the term, I work until I burst but I started to live my life and undoubtedly the idea of life in two, of serious life in two would be the highest happiness, but it must be with Luke, if with him it will be impossible, well, I’ll stay alone.   Project, do you know that I was pleased to write you? My msn contact is [omissis], add me, so we can talk a bit, basically I miss talking seriously with people your age and I think you could understand me and then, I told you, I would love you to see my little house, maybe having dinner with you and Luke! But we work every night until midnight, I think we had to settle for breakfast in the morning. What do you think? It could be done? I send you a picture of me and Luke, but don’t publish it. A hug. Your Albert ___________   Hello Project, I write to you because I find it very difficult to hear you in the chat and when I get home I absolutely have to sleep and for me there is neither Saturday nor Sunday. I think I'm close to the collapse, I'm working like crazy to try to put some money aside that will allow me to survive from September onwards, because from September I'll have to go back to school and I have the graduation waiting for me, that’s why from September on  I can do very little work to earn some money and I would try to keep this mini-apartment not to be forced to return to my parents.   My parents don’t even look for me, for them I'm just a problem already solved in every sense, if I can manage without asking them for money, but then, after the graduation, what can I do? How will I survive, working and studying? I see it as a coming nightmare. My school friends, let's call them so, if they are all comfortable doing nothing, they go on vacation and have fun, I'm here to kill myself at work to survive. These are the perspectives of study and work, truly beautiful!   At least before I had Luke, but now he works out of town, he has a girlfriend, when we meet I'm happy because we love each other but I feel also a terrible melancholy. To him, about me, I said nothing, we are two good friends who now no longer work together and meet at most two hours a week.   Once he came to the pizzeria and I felt a terrible embarrassment, I served him at the table, he was with his girlfriend, I was smiling and relaxed as if nothing had happened, but inside I felt like dying. I said that Luke would have been fine for me anyway, but now I feel him like a stranger, a stranger I love somehow, but he has his life and I have nothing to do with it.   So now with my parents the game is over, with Luke as well, what's left? Work up to madness, study, and then the university for me will not exist, my friends are doing all their projects, one wants to go to medicine, the other to engineering, etc. etc. and when they ask me, what can I answer? I will not go there! Because in order to go there I should go back to my parents' house and I should ask them for money and I will never do it, and from what I hear, the university is selective, so either you just do only that or you don’t go anywhere.  My dream would have been to study statistics, I don’t know why but I have always had this fixed idea but there are very few students there and you must attend lessons.   What a disgusting life! Everything is random, you can win the lottery or finish under the train, without any reason. I tried to take a look at that MIUR-Guide site you sent me, but it's a chaos, I don’t understand anything, I’m lost in a huge sea of possibilities and choices. Maybe we could try to look at it together, but I fear very much that in the end it will be just a useless thing because for me the university will remain just a dream.   You cannot even imagine how I feel these days, I really feel that for me life will be nothing but work. A guy? But it's just a dream, here everyone thinks about his business and then what can I offer to a guy? A life of starving or if he works, and maybe much better than me, I can be the one maintained. No! It's better to be alone and I think I'll have to start getting used to it.   Hi Project. If you answer me at least I realize that someone has spent 10 minutes for me I know you’ll do it.   Your Albert   A GAY GUY LOOKING FOR THE BEST GUY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-18-2018, 08:37 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies Oh! Well .... I know how bad you felt about and I'm sorry ... but I can tell you, so, with open heart I'll tell you: I expected it ... but, excuse me, with me it’s impossible, ok, I'm fine all the same, you have a thousand reasons, you haven’t told me in the face brutally why, but I know very well what is that “why” ... I must be put aside because "there is something better!". After our story is over how many other guys did you meet? Six, seven, I don’t know, I’ve lost count. Every time you broke up with some guy the speech was always the same: "There is something better ..." I believe that by reasoning this way you’ll make such a collection of frustrations that you will eventually have to recognize that you have thrown away some golden occasions. I'm not saying with me, maybe it would not have worked with me, but with some of those guys you could have built a nice story.    Fabio was really in love with you and he was a wonderful  guy, if he had fallen in love with me I would have felt like the richest man in the world, but he was in love with you and you didn’t want him because you said there was something better and you made him feel bad like a beaten dog and then he came to me in order to lick quietly his wounds. But there is more, you fooled him you made him believe you would spend your life with him. I still remember that time we went out together, you cuddled him so tenderly, you kissed him so tenderly, you were hugged with him all evening and I said to myself inside: "Poor Fabio! He is deluding himself ... " and punctually, after a month, you broke up with Fabio and you went back to the search for the best guy without even telling him it... I, maybe, I'm be stupid ... maybe I cannot understand but it is as a kind of irrepressible craving  takes you, for you sex is a drug, you use it just like drugs, you are addicted.   You run after a guy like just a lost lover would do, then he yields to your requests and you say he has no backbone, he cannot assert himself, and you pass sentences of any kind ... coming so far as to say he's not good to make love and then at the end of the speech comes the usual sentence: "There’s something better!" ... and the game starts again ... you make victims and destroy the lives of these guys, who will never forgive themselves for have paid attention to you, you don’t even note such things because you think only of yourself ... you don’t even know the damage you do ... but in the end the years pass and you throw them away like that. You don’t look for love, you are looking for the "perfect guy", you are looking for things that don’t exist, you are throwing away the real guys that I don’t say are better than you but at least are definitely at your level ...  You once did a crazy speech that annoyed me a lot: you said you wanted one's hands, another's eyes, a third's smile, and even another's way of having sex. But who put these stupid things in your head? But you realize that you are almost 30 years old and you know absolutely nothing about what love is, you have made a collection of guys, like English lords who hung in the hall the hunting trophies, you still see love like that ... you, at 30, are still looking for the perfect guy. You could say to me: "Why are you telling me it?" ... well ... we're friends, aren’t we?  In fact I think I'm one of the few friends that you still have, all others have broken up with you ... you are convinced that you it’s you the one who broke up with them but in reality they are the ones who gave up ... in a minor tone, but you have also applied to friends the story of "there is something better" you ... you have tried to apply it to me too ... and it’s me who didn’t want to give up despite everything. I kept telling you what I really think, that is that you are going towards a total dissipation of yourself, you're throwing yourself away in a lot of nonsense, going still now, 30 years old, chasing fantasies ...  I think you're still conditioned by the myth ... right from the myth of the ideal guy ... at 30 you would like a sweet guy,  good, affectionate, totally without experience because you think you can educate him, but you don’t even say to educate, you say to wean ...  You? And what could you teach him? What could you teach a clean boy? Could you teach him how to pretend to be in love ... or how do you feel desperate when you pretend to continue playing but you realize that the castle is collapsing?  I don’t know what you can foresee for your future because you in effect always seek this blessed ideal guy. And then if even this ideal guy existed, do you think he would fall in love with you? So you're the ideal guy! ... of course it's obvious ... look at yourself in the mirror ... in fact you're a nice guy but not so young, you bring with you so many manias and frenzies that a psychoanalyst could work on them a lifetime, when you start with your bla bla you don’t stop anymore ... you always say the same things, do you think you are fascinating but you are not and you don’t even realize it, it was you the one who broke up with Mathew?  You are convinced, but it is not so and you know how they things are really? Mathew has left you ... it’s he who has left you and you know why ... it’s he who told me: he left you "because there is something better ...". You don’t believe it? How is it possible that there is someone better than you? ... Yet Mathew was perfectly convinced ... and do you know who taught it this philosophy? You taught him it! Mathew a reasoning like this, before, he wouldn’t have done ... I knew him well before, he, before, was looking for a real guy ... but after he met you he started to look for the ideal guy.  Now I told you what I had to tell you ... wake up until you're in time ... don’t run after butterflies. If a guy at 30 has not yet understood what it means to love, he must try to understand it quickly because the Mathew who dumped you because "there is something better ..." is likely not to be an exception but the first of a long series of guys who will dump you and then you will understand ... but then understanding will not make any sense. I tell you these things because I think that they are true ... don’t worry, I'm not trying to get back with you ... I know that "there is something better!" ... but at least as a friend you can still go well.   GAY EXPERIENCES Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-18-2018, 01:48 PM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies Hello Project, I've known the gay project blog for a long time and from a few days ago I started reading the forum too. I didn’t think I would have written anything, but I have to say one thing, you give a very particular view of the gay world, when I read the posts of the guys in the forum I realize that they also think essentially like you, maybe they have been lucky and have known only the positive aspects of gays but there are many other things that a gay guy should consider very carefully to avoid getting into trouble.   I’m 26 years old and I have always lived in Milan but I can guarantee you that I have seen very different things from those you write. I tell it not in a polemical sense, because I like a lot the things you put in the blog, but for me they represent more a single side of the coin than the general rule, more what I would like than what I see or have seen so far.   I read your articles on homosexual prostitution and I would like to say that even when those levels aren't reached, often a young boy is likely to be in contact with people who have broken out, maybe not his fault, and with situations that are quite pathological also in the conception of sex. But I don’t want to make a generic speech. I'll tell you a true story, my story, I think it can serve to reflect.   I've always known that I was gay, at the age of 16 I feel lonely, I miss a physical contact. I don’t even know what this expression means, if I miss a hug and a little pampering or I miss a real sexual contact, I probably miss both things and I feel bad, very bad, I fall in love with a heterosexual schoolmate and I spend a couple of years to run after him, of course without any result, or better with the only result of being disgraced everywhere, even at home, and being attacked with a memorable scene, even if I hadn’t done anything absurd, anything at all.   At 18 I fight every day with my parents who now tolerate me but have already completely downloaded me, I’m doing bad at school, in the twelfth grade I risk of being rejected because I don’t go to school, anyway my teachers close both their eyes and I arrive in the thirteenth grade.   I get the fixed idea of finding someone, I cannot say whether in order to be hugged or to have sex. I desperately need someone to take care of me that makes me feel that he loves me, but there is no one and then I start to follow two paths, one is that of the gym and the other is that of the combined meetings on the internet.   On the gym side after a week I find a guy 35-year-old who seems interested, a fine guy, a nice guy, a bit too old for me but a nice guy, courting me with looks, attentions, invitations to the bar of the gym but also a bit of compliments, he tells me that I'm a nice guy, in short, I feel encouraged. I thought he would like to look at me in the locker room or in the showers ... no! It was just as if I were not there, but he continued to court me, then I take courage and I say "I'm gay" and he says: "Me too ... but here I am straight ..." I don’t understand the meaning of such an answer, after a few days he says to me: "Do you come to my house tonight?" I feel taken aback, what I can expect I know it very well ... or better I don’t know at all ... because one says: "I foresee just sex ... " Ok, but what does that mean? ...   In short, I go there, I felt very excited, for me it was the first time. I was expecting a tender thing but it was not like that at all, I didn’t even have the courage to react and he behaved just like a beast, he wanted only one thing from me, he didn’t care about anything, for him I was more or less like an inflatable doll.   When he did what he wanted, it was all over and for me there was not even a caress. He looked at me satisfied, but I felt like crying, I felt like a disgust, I had given my virginity to such a beast, I felt like an unforgivable stupid. He noticed it and told me that I was a kid and that if I didn’t want to stay, I didn’t have to be of consequence to him, etc. etc. I dressed and left. Then it really came into my head that for me living would have made no sense and that gays were all a disgust, one worse than the other.   A few days later I found another one on the internet, James, ... one with a body very muscular and well trained but with a sweet look ... We meet, it's not beautiful but it's not too bad, he doesn’t go right to the point, in short, he talks a bit, tells me he has never had sex with a guy, with girls yes. He’s a very undecided guy who likes be courted, I'm around him 15/20 days and then finally the first intercourse with him. It starts not bad ... I think this time I have found the good one. No forcing ... then at the best part he kisses me and says: "Mark ... I love you!" ... but my name is Francis and he knows it very well ... I pretend not to have understood and he calls me Mark again. I tell him my name is Francis and he tells me he wants to call me Mark. I ask him why and he tells me that he needs Mark because he is in love with Mark and not with me, that I can never give him anything because only Mark can make him feel good.   I ask him who Mark is and tells me the story, in practice he is madly in love with Mark, but Mark doesn’t care at all about him. Mark too is gay, but Mark is beautiful and has as many guys as he wants ... in practice we spent all night talking about Mark. I was sorry for James, he demanded that I helped him to write an email to Mark, I said to him: "Don’t get angry, but, excuse me, why do you want to send it to him ... if he doesn’t care at all about you? ..." But he insisted: "No, come on, please, let's write it ... " and told me all the things that I had to put in the email. In the end we finished the email ... and he asked me to send it, I told him: "Read it before sending!" But he told me that he trusted me and I sent it.   The next day James calls me at five in the afternoon, I thought he wanted to see me, but no ... he starts an endless story blaming me for a hundred things ... Marco had thrown the phone in his face because an email like that just a fool like me could write it because I was too aggressive ... basically if Mark had sent him to the hell, the fault was only mine ... but he went further: "You took advantage of my moment of weakness to bring me to make love, but I didn’t want to ... I feel like you had raped me ... but you don’t even realize it ... " To which I sent him loudly to hell.   Ten days later, a 50-year-old man comes to the gym ... and what a subject he was!  Bald, fat like a lard ball ... in short, this one starts to court me and it was very distasteful ... but hell, I was 18, he was 50 ... I say no! ... nothing, he insists! It makes me fucking embarrassed ... in front of everybody ... then an instructor asks me: "But you know who is that man?" I answer: "No! Who is it?" And the instructor tells me that he was a very rich builder who had enticed, so to say, all the guys in the area ... I close with the gym!   I have internet ... now I'm just looking for peers. Two brothers propose me to do the third ... no thanks! I finally know another guy, quite nice ... the chats were very sweet ... he had also spoken about sex in a rather provocative way ... but with education ... we chat every day, I think he's a beautiful person, I talk to him willingly, I insist on getting to know him but he takes time, I think he is an adult man who says he is an eighteen year old and I ask him to see him on cam, we open a video call ... he is very young ... he is 15 years old beautiful as the sun ... but is a minor, we remained friends for a few months then he found a guy of 29 years and we no longer felt.   Two or three months later I meet Leo, 19, we also do some sex in the chat with the video camera. I like him a lot ... In the end we get to the appointment ... for me it's a fundamental thing. I wait for him ... but he doesn’t come ... I go back home I open the chat where we always were chatting but his contact has been deleted. His blog no longer exists. Disappeared into nothing!   I met a lot of strange people, especially people with the fixed idea of sex, both young and about 40/50 years and the thing that came to my head is that being gay doesn’t have to be such an easy if there is so much gay people out of mind ...   I have to say that I also met some good guys and some nice gay couples.   For the past four years I've been with my boyfriend, whose name is Laurence. When we first met I thought he was yet another hunter of easy sex, but with him it was different ... but Laurence arrived after a long series of unpleasant experiences ... not unpleasant, I would better say of experiences that end with the classic sentence: "But how did I and up in love with a moron like this?"   I want to say that what Project says is true and that in the end there are good things in the gay world, but we must also open our eyes well and distinguish the serious people from those who at 30/50 still play pretending they are kids. Hugs to all!   MESSAGE FROM AN OLD AND SICK GAY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-17-2018, 06:32 PM - Forum: Gay seniors - No Replies Dear Project, practically your forum is the only one that also speaks of old people with a bit of seriousness, but it lacks one thing: it only talks about old gays who are all in all in good health, Unfortunately I belong to those who are not in good health, I don’t speak of psychological distress because at my age it is a category that has been outdated for decades, I speak of physical health and bad ills in the serious sense of the term.    I often think that my road will bring me to the end in quite short times but despite everything I don’t feel anguished, I wonder what may be the best way to do something good and there are many uncertainties. I'm not afraid of death, perhaps of physical suffering yes, because what I've tried until now, after all, was relative, but then you become fatalist and you lose the desire to fight, in some way you accept your destiny. After all, I'm old and I lived my life, so other five or other ten years don’t make a big difference. I think that to the new generations we must first teach to live and then we must also teach them to die with a certain basic serenity, with the conscience of having done at least something good.   This is to make you understand the situation, but you don’t imagine how comforting it can be for me to read the forum, read the emails that guys send you and see what the guys answer to the stories of others, it's like to open one's own mind to the meaning of life that continues, because these guys will also carry inside themselves something of us, especially if they feel loved and respected by us. After all we have to try, each one of us, to make the burden of others less heavy, this is the meaning of life.   Of course in these guys I see myself, they are lucky because they have at their disposal means and possibilities that didn't exist in our time, but I see that they still have their melancholy and such a melancholy derives largely from the absence of love, from families which became disinterested in them or have been so much interested to become oppressive.   I live alone, even if I still have relatives who in their way love me and don’t abandon me and I feel lucky for this. In my life, of gay I had only the imagination and some fleeting adventure over fifty years ago. But it was my previous life, which is now very far away and it seems almost like a dream lost over the years. In recent years, when I was a little better than now and I could leave the house I also met young people, obviously, I think, always or almost straight, young couples with children and even guys who worked and I tried to be kind to everyone, especially with the guys who worked, sometimes there was some mutual sympathy, they treated me well, maybe just for the age, but I don’t think only for that, I think especially because they saw themselves as an object of attention and respect, what I don’t think happens very often.   Now I'm happy to read the forum and it's not a small thing and I thank you very much for this. I would love to send a positive message to the guys of all ages: "put aside your fear and look inside and you will find the right push to first of all do for others what you would have done for you."   And then we don't live for ourselves only, but to live all of us humans, and not only humans, a bit better. A spontaneous smile helps us live and makes us live better. I embrace you, Project, and thank you for what you’re doing. Marino (Publish the e- mail, if you want, in fact I would like it.)   GAY MENTAL NARCISSISM Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-17-2018, 12:00 PM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies I will try to analyze what we could call "gay mental narcissism". Not that the phenomenon of mental narcissism is exclusively gay, I would just say that the field of analysis will be limited to gays. Sometimes talking in a chat with gay guys, I happen to come across an attitude that consists in giving to one’s own behaviors always and only motivations of the highest altruistic profile, motivations, if you want, very noble but often not very credible.    As an obvious completion of this way of proceeding (gay mental narcissism) we note the total removal of sexual motivations that are considered less dignified than altruistic ones and are therefore automatically bypassed. I quote some typical example:   "I see him disappointed, I see he suffers and I would like to do something for him, I wish he was fine, I don’t even care that he falls in love with me, I swear that I don’t care, I do it for him, though I think if he opened up with me at the end he would feel satisfied and would be better off. I'm not jealous, I know that he's free and that he can do whatever he wants, but if he doesn’t talk with me, he doesn’t do it with anyone."   "Ok, he didn’t want me, I understood, I suffered as a beaten dog but I didn’t even tell him it, just to not make him feel bad, I also thought that if he felt influenced by me, letting him go would be my duty, I was very hesitant but then I decided and I told him: - If there cannot be anything between us then it is better that we don’t see each other anymore, it's better for you too." - But he reacted badly, he told me that I was blackmailing him and that I wanted to force him to say yes but it is not so, I did it only for him!"   "I fell in love with him, but when I fall in love it is not the physical attraction that matters, I see him so scared, that is, we talk a lot, I see that he needs me, look, I could find one hundred  guys better than him, but he really needs me and I cannot leave him alone, it would be very bad!"   "I think nobody really understands me, I try to be sweet with everyone, to make me be loved, to always be cautious, not to be carried too much by my feelings not to offend those of others, but I have the impression that they don't give any importance to putting their feet on my feelings , they do it anyway!"   "When I fall in love, for me there are no half measures, but he too must be like that, and with friends it's just the same, I have very few friends, but for them I would be willing to give even my soul, but they calculate me no more than zero, for them I’m just one of many, sometimes when some of my friends are in a bad mood because maybe the girl has treated them badly I spend hours to console them, in those moments, yes, they look for me, but they rapidly  forget me when they don’t need me. I trust them and in doing so I waste my time, because they don’t deserve it. I caught so many of those disappointments, so many of those slaps in the face that you can’t even imagine. But why am I telling you such things? It seams you can't understand that for me it things are different, I don’t spend so many hours with him on the phone looking for sex, I don’t care about those things! I do it for him, because I love him! It's a clean thing, sex has nothing to do with it!"   The exemplification could continue but these attitudes mask a certain underlying hypocrisy. I don’t mean at all that it is a deliberate and conscious hypocrisy, but it’s certainly hypocrisy, a hypocrisy that manifests itself in a spiritual narcissism for which "I’m good and THEY don’t understand me and treat me badly." Or rather by enlarging the speech: "I’m good, unselfish, generous, shy, discreet, sensitive, careful not to hurt anyone and THEY don’t understand me, THEY are gossipy, malignant, they treat me badly, they understand whistles for flasks [Italian expression for “confuse one thing with another” because In Italian “whistles for flasks” sounds “fischi per fiaschi” two words very similar], they attribute to me motivations to which I am completely extraneous etc. etc.".   There is no doubt that these attitudes are quite widespread among gay guys, they are disguises of the ego, idealizations of a self-image substantially narcissistic that aims to underline the dimension of the ego as a victim.   Often the guys who assume these attitudes feel victims of the guys who do not give them the expected answers in affective terms, they feel marginalized by friends on whom they projected very high expectations, they feel misunderstood and in good substance disappointed by life, but I think it is necessary to point out some things:   1) If a guy doesn’t give you the expected answers on the affective level, this doesn’t mean that he is disrespecting you or is treating you badly. What would you say if a guy you do not care about falls in love with you and tries to make you understand that your refusal is bad? Would you change your mind? In all likelihood, you would feel a feeling of discomfort.   2) If your friends don’t give you the expected answers in terms of love they are not doing anything wrong, you can, if you want, keep with them a less binding relationship (given the lack of reciprocity) but their freedom of behavior (their indifference) has nothing aggressive towards you.   3) Why do you try to sublimate the motivations of your behavior by eliminating the sexual motivations that are not negative things at all and constitute the deepest and most common motivations of affectionate behavior? Telling a guy, "I do it for you!" Is an attempt to feel generous on his skin.   4) Emotional blackmail, like "I leave you for your own good", has the taste of hypocrisy.   5) It is difficult to learn to talk about sex in a serious way, but somehow we get there and, good or bad, we get also to overcome the hypocrisies in this field, but it is very difficult to learn to talk about feelings without hypocrisy, without spiritual narcissism, without sublimations.   We have always been used to disguising ourselves as those we are not, this can be beneficial in a society where human relationships are based on formality, on hypocrisy, and in common social relations it is almost always like that, but in affective relationships, and especially in those based on sincerity and strong and direct affective exchanges, narcissism and sublimations create major drawbacks.   Now try mentally to put yourself in the position of a guy who receives a declaration of love and imagine you receive two e-mails, one from a guy who uses the speech n. 1 and then another from a guy who uses the speech n. 2 and tell me what reactions come to your mind.   1) "I wanted to tell you something, but you don’t have to understand me badly, I'm fine with you, that is when I talk with you, I feel comfortable, I'm really fine, sometimes I think you want to open a little with me, but in the end you don’t, I do everything to put you at ease but you run away, you don’t even look at me, nevertheless I'll tell you it the same, I love you, I don’t know what you’ll think, but I want to be there always for you, I think you can like it, I don’t know at what level, but I think it can please you. But behind my declaration you do not have to see strange things, here sex has nothing to do, I love you on another level, it's a serious thing, it's a deep thing, I'm not playing. But I would like a serious answer from you, that is, I would like to understand how you see it because I want to understand if it seems strange to you, all right, let's go on, we don’t necessarily have to be friends. I think you would be fine with me, we talked a lot, well, you understood what I wanted to say, but now give me an answer."   2)" I wanted to tell you something, but you've already understood, I fell in love 100% with you, I think of you a thousand times a day, that is, I really want you with everything that comes after, yes, you got it right! Come on, now I said it!! Wow, now I said it! "   The texts of the two declarations of love are both authentic and have actually been sent to the recipients by e-mail. I know very well that sincerity is often not spontaneous. No one has sublimated and disguised his affectivity and sexuality more than I did in my youth.   My speech is not a moral judgment, what is a thousand miles away from my intentions, but it is only an invitation to reflect in order to avoid as much as possible the complications of victimization, spiritual narcissism and sublimation. How I would have been happy seeing such things accomplished in my youth!   A GAY STORY OF EMOTIONAL ADDICTION Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-16-2018, 01:37 AM - Forum: Gay discomfort - No Replies I would like to proceed now to the exposition and analysis of a story of emotional addiction. I state that the story I’m about to tell and analyze is not a true story but an example of school to point out the concepts related to the most serious diseases of a couple relationship. Nonetheless, the elements that I will take into consideration present themselves in real stories, studying their meaning here will therefore be useful to recognize in time the elements that seriously discourage the continuation of a couple relationship or it would be better to say a presumed couple relationship. But let's get to the story.    The characters are three, the first, Luke, is a 23-year-old guy who, treated by his parents as the weak link of the family, in relation to his married 35-year-old brother now fully realized at a social and economic level, has progressively lost self-esteem and is desperately looking for a guy to solve his problems in order to finally begin to feel loved.    The second character is John, a 26-year-old guy who has undergone periods of severe depression and has ended up in a relationship of substantial dependence on the third protagonist of our story, Richard, a 35year-old man with a very determined and sometimes aggressive character that manages a small autonomous economic activity.   John doesn’t study, doesn’t work and doesn’t look for a job because he would have great difficulty in entering a working environment. Richard is aware of all this and keeps him home at his own expense. John's family, which has always considered John as a patient, not because of his homosexuality, which was also known to his family, but because of his depression, has favored the relationship between John and Richard, aware that this would finally have removed John from the family, a fact considered highly desirable by his parents because of the frequent depressive crises of John and the presence of two younger brothers of John, still adolescents.   Luke meets John on a dating site, talks a lot with him, and is informed by John of his depression but not of the fact that John has lived with Richard for years.   Luke identifies himself with John and conceives the idea that no one better than him can assist John and that John, if properly supported by him, will be able to get out of depression and recover completely.   Between Luke and John a relationship develops slowly taking on all the characteristics of the relationship of love. Luke feels in love. The relationship develops without any pathological characteristics, Luke is enthusiastic, then fully unexpected elements intervene that arouse some perplexities in Luke: during their conversations in chat, John is absent for long periods of time. One day John, speaking with Luke, attributes to Luke a sentence that Luke remembers never having said, Luke avoids emphasizing the thing, which remains only a sporadic fact.   Luke and John describe themselves physically to each other, John says he is slim and well proportioned, but a couple of days later he says that he eats too much and that maybe it is the drugs that make him gain weight, even this fact remains only an episode and Luke tries not to give it too much weight.   Another day John tells Luke not to call him the next morning because he will go to the doctor together with his parents, Luke doesn’t call him and, in the afternoon, when they newly hear each other on the phone, John asks Luke why he didn’t call him in the morning as usual . Luke avoids to remind John of the visit to the doctor and tells him that he was busy with his family, John says only "Ah, ok! The important thing is that you're fine! " and seems not to remember at all to have told Luke that he would go to the doctor. This fact leaves Luke rather perplexed, but despite everything Luke avoids addressing the issue directly and tries not to give weight to the episode.   The speeches between Luke and John, slowly, come to touch sexuality and the two decide to exchange photos. Luke passes to John his photos, but John passes to Luke the photos of Richard a few years before, when he was definitely a handsome guy, and tells him that those are his last summer's photos. Luke likes the pictures of Richard, and obviously believes they are the photos of John and Luke feels even more in love.   After a few weeks, one Friday, posing as John, Richard, in a very short conversation written in chat, proposes to Luke to meet in person the following Sunday. Luke doesn’t expect such a proposal so sudden but is very happy. He tries to contact John again, but he always gets only brief, interlocutory written answers. John (actually Richard) will take a trip of a few hours to reach Luke in his city. Luke's expectations are many, when the day of the meeting finally arrives, at the station, Luke immediately recognizes the guy of the photos, which, however, seems a little too old for 26 years, but Luke judges the question to be secondary.   Luke realizes that the voice of the guy in front of him is not very similar to that of John, whom he had heard so many times via Skype, tries to resume then the classic speeches he did with John and brings up the depression but the guy answers him abruptly it is not to talk about depression that he has taken such a long journey. Luke tries to insist and explain that he understood that the guy in front of him is not the one he talked to so often in the chat. Richard attacks him almost violently, tells him that John is his boyfriend and that Luke must absolutely not even afford to mention him and concludes: "You are just a pig who is trying to put us against each other to ruin our lives because you you're out of your mind! " and goes away cursing. Luke is literally upset.   In the evening Luke calls John via the usual skype contact and doesn’t know what to expect, but John replies as if nothing had happened, he seems absolutely calm and completely unaware of the facts, Luke avoids talking about what happened.   Weeks pass, the things between Luke and John proceed well and Luke forgets his perplexities. After a couple of months John asks Luke to meet him in person, Luke eventually accepts. On the day of the meeting, at the station, John immediately recognizes Luke but obviously Luke doesn’t recognize John who is not the guy of the photos and Luke doesn’t like him physically.   John behaves with Luke in a very casual way, he knows the typical topics of the conversations with Luke and this fact reassures Luke but he doesn’t know what to do because the guy in front of him is not that of the photos, then tries to mention the fact in very vague way: "in person you don’t look much like you are in photos" but John doesn’t follow the thing, Luke insists "but are you sure you sent me your photos and not those of some other guy?" John looks at Luke as if Luke was crazy: "What are you saying? But are you out of your mind?" (The same expression used by Richard) then John continues the speech smiling and tells Luke that now they can finally realize together all the promises that they made each other for months.   Luke tries to mention that he doesn’t feel like having sex with John without further remarking that the guy in the picture was another. John looks at him worried as if he didn’t even realize what was happening and tells him that he doesn’t understand, that he doesn’t know why Luke is perplexed, because Luke looks different from how he had always known him, and adds that he feels him distant, strange, that he is no longer the same Luke, then begins to cry, cries and repeats that in the end no one has ever really cared about him, that no one has ever believed his feelings, that no one has ever loved him, that for him life It makes no sense and it makes no sense to even go on living and says he wants to go away immediately and goes to the station without speaking a single word, Luke pursues him and begs him to stay, is worried that John can make insane gestures, tells him that he loves him, that he is too important and that he is willing to do anything to avoid losing him and that he desperately needs his presence.   After a couple of hours of insistence by Luke, John appears less anxious. John and Luke go to the hotel together. John wants to be cuddled because he says he needs it, then cuddles are transformed into sex, Luke feels forced but doesn’t have the courage to say no and up to a certain point the thing goes on, but John claims performances that Luke doesn’t like at all, John feels frustrated and misunderstood again and starts crying again but Luke doesn’t give up this time.   John resumes his things and goes away upset with the air of being able to do terrible things. Luke is assailed by anxiety, calls him and begs him to come back but John doesn’t want to know reasons stops the conversation and doesn’t come back.   After a few hours Richard calls Luke and accuses him of having ruined John's life and also his own and threatens him of serious consequences if he will contact again John, but John, secretly, contacts Luke again and begs him not to disappear and free him from Richard who keeps him succubus.   In short, at the end Luke wins his hesitations and takes his decision: to cut the bridges in a radical and definitive way with both, fortunately  John and Richard live in a distant city and it is not easy for them come back to Luke.   Luke is reassured by not having given either the home address or the home phone number.   Result: Luke has lived about three years of life in illusions that then turned into anxiety and violent anxiety because Luke entered into pathological mechanisms.   It is not even a problem of guilt, those two guys were not playing, for them what they did had a sense of reality, and this is precisely why guys must learn to open their eyes very well and to distinguish falling in love from addiction.   Let's now try to analyze the story from Luke's point of view. It can certainly happen that in the relationships between two guys there are different points of view and also profound misunderstandings but, attention, it’s really another story if one of the two has behaviors that appear to lack a simple and objective logic. I mean that even if one cannot follow the logic of the other, in any case, in the absence of real diseases, everyone recognizes that the things said or done by the other follow their own logic, which may not be shared but is however a logic, that is, it has intrinsically a meaning.   When in a relationship you are faced with behaviors objectively illogical or inconsistent (example: I send you the photos of another guy stating that they are mine and then when you, seeing me in person, realize that those photos are not mine, I insist, against the evidence, in saying that they are really mine) the alarm bell must ring, the same applies when the dialogue systematically becomes a monologue, especially if it is a repetitive monologue, or when one is faced with too sudden and frequent changes of mood or subject. The excesses are always suspicious, so the stable excess of tragic tones, the perpetually distracted tone of those who never go beyond the superficial chatting and the obsessive offer or request for affective confirmations should alarm and should awaken rationality.   The wrong attitude of Luke, in the story I just told, and which, I repeat, is not a real story but only an example of school, consists in not wanting to understand and systematically removing all the elements of alarm, abandoning himself to exclusively emotional reactions.   GAYS AND SELF ESTEEM Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-15-2018, 04:45 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies Being comfortable with yourself    This chapter is dedicated to feeling good about yourself. When one is not comfortable with oneself, one feels a generalized sense of inadequacy, of inability to cope effectively, not to some specific difficulties but more generally to the problems of ordinary life or a sort of progressive disinterest towards very important sectors of social life or even of affective life or towards sexuality, these are the typical depressive manifestations of a malaise under which there is the belief that the situation can not in any way change. In these cases the malaise leads to closure and isolation. In some cases, however, not being well with oneself does not take depressive aspects but rather manifests itself in a frantic search for solutions and therefore in a marked availability to emotional and sometimes sexual contact, often without adequate rational control, which entails the risk to get into situations that are not really wanted and difficult to manage.   Self-esteem   The fundamental causes of not being comfortable with oneself are essentially two: low self-esteem and feelings of guilt. Self-esteem derives from the overall equilibrium of the personality and is undoubtedly related to many social, educational and family factors and, in particular, to the successes or failures achieved and to the esteem we enjoy from other people.   Low self-esteem is often a dysfunctional response to states of social exclusion or to an education that tends to emphasize individual's insecurities.   Although the low self-esteem has in most cases external substantive motivations due to the environmental conditioning, the search for its motivations in almost all cases is addressed inward by the people who experience it. Those who experience discomfort tend to identify the cause of it in one or a few well-defined elements, physical or of the character, which we can consider centers of polarization of the low self-esteem. Some of these elements have nothing to do with sexuality, while others are explicitly affective / sexual. I try to list some, based on what emerges in the chats with the gay guys.   Low self-esteem linked to one's physicality   First of all the elements linked to one's own non-sexual physicality must be mentioned: "I am too fat", an expression that is frequently heard; "I am too thin", a much rarer expression; "I am flabby, I have no muscles"; "I'm too short"; "I'm too tall"; "I'm too hairy"; "I'm really hairless". These expressions, which in themselves indicate only the perception of a presumed inadequacy become symptoms of being uncomfortable with oneself when they take on a fixed idea character that interferes considerably with ordinary life. When this happens, the perception of the inadequacy leads to a more or less consciously exasperated search for solutions to what begins to present itself as a problem and sometimes as the problem.   Often boys who call themselves too fat or too flaccid are not at all such and the perception of the inadequacy is completely subjective and unrealistic, it is the case of slender guys who feel too fat and follow a strict diet and of boys who, despite having a body sculpted by the activity, even daily, in the gym, resort to anabolics to increase muscle mass. These elements indicate states of discomfort of a certain extent that may require specialistic intervention.   The dimension of discomfort in the perception of the inadequacy manifests itself as well as in the exasperation of presumed problems, in the search for pseudo-solutions that can be much more harmful than the illusions that they should hypothetically remedy.   Low self-esteem linked to one's sexual physicality   The elements linked to one's sexual physicality must also be stressed. A small number of gay boys ends up putting aside the idea of living a couple sexuality for reasons related to the sense of inadequacy of their sexual physicality. Even in these situations, as in the previous ones, the perception of the inadequacy can be absolutely subjective and not realistic and the search for solutions to alleged problems can also create serious drawbacks and sometimes, when a guy thinks that the solution to the alleged problem is not there or it is unattainable, the answer leads even to the renunciation of couple sexuality. This renunciation, in general, is not explicit but is manifested through continuous postponements or, when the situation can no longer be postponed, through the multiplication of hesitations and reservations that end up exasperating the partner, who is not aware of the real cause of those hesitations and those reservations.   Sometimes the renunciation of sexuality involves even the refusal of masturbation, the exercise of which, especially if carried out with reference to images coming from pornography, becomes an important although unmotivated cause of sexual frustration.   It is not uncommon for the guys to subconsciously end up hiding the true motivation of the sense of inadequacy and covering it with other motivations in which the reference to sexuality is completely removed.   On the problem of the size of the penis has grown a thriving business of pseudo-remedies of a medical and surgical nature, which promise rapid and apparently non-dangerous solutions, with prices that fluctuate in relation to the social category object of promotional messages.   Low self-esteem for character reasons   Among the centers of polarization of low self-esteem must be considered also elements linked to the personal character that individuals identify as their weaknesses or fragility. I mention only some of the most common ones: “I am very weak and I have not character, I can never make a decision, I get carried away by what others say, I am listless and inert and I let others choose for me."   Both the elements linked to one's physicality (both sexual and non-sexual) and those linked to the personal character, recognized as individual weaknesses, are experienced as insurmountable impediments to the construction of social relationships and even more of affective and couple relationships.   The premises to recover self-esteem   To feel good about oneself, one must accept one's physicality at all levels and, of course, one's overall personality, and it is necessary to begin to understand that couple life is not just sexuality and that couple sexuality has an essentially emotional rather than performance dimension. It should never be forgotten that many deep affective relationships are not based on what we consider the strongest part of us but on our weaknesses. It is from the integration of the weak sides of two people that a common dimension can be born, which is basically a form of mutual adaptation, that is, a renunciation of individual affirmation. In general, people who have a very strong "I" are not the best couple partners.   Talking often in a chat with guys who have never experienced the reality of couple life, I can observe how, for them, life as a couple is thinkable only as a total symbiosis in which everything is and must be common and the reciprocal dedication must be absolute at the limit of identification: partners must have the same friends, must always go together to the cinema, to parties, on holiday and so on. But all this, which is only theory, and unfortunately it is a false theory, leads to the re-proposition, in the real practice of the couple life, of the model of couple as the subordination of the other to oneself or of oneself to the other.   The life of a couple is seen, in essence, as the realization of a perfect communion of ideals but to this perfect communion of ideals we try to arrive not through a real balance of interests but through an attempt to bring the other into our world and to keep him in a condition of substantial dependence putting in practice more or less consciously a series of emotional blackmail, or accepting a role of dependence on the other, that is a form of substantial subordination motivated, in theory, by a feeling of love but in reality by a profound lack of self-esteem.   Parity and dependence within the couple    It should never be forgotten that couple life, and gay couple life in particular, finds its foundation in the equality of the two partners that leads to the construction of a “we” that is objectively a new reality and not the result of a radical sacrifice of the interests of one to those of the other. It makes no sense, and indeed causes great unease, to identify love with the total acquiescence and absolute obedience, that is, essentially with dependence on the other.   The mechanism that creates addiction is simple and is analogous to that which manifests itself in the relationship between a child and the parent, which ends up being dependent on the child: the child wants a certain thing, the parent says no, then the child cries and the parent says yes so as not to see him crying, the child is  more gratified for having realized that he has a power over the parent than for having achieved what he wanted. These mechanisms, however, are natural only when they act between subjects who are not on the same level but, between two gay guys, who should love each other on a much more solid and equal basis, such mechanisms are basically the sign of a strong asymmetry and couple suffering and, in essence, of a relationship of psychological dependence.   Formalization of relationships   Those who don’t feel good about themselves tend to formalize relationships to make them clearer and more understandable, substituting an almost economic or quasi-contractual logic to an affective dimension that has largely failed. Typical, in these cases, is the tendency to dictate the rules that must define the relationship and to request the respect for them in any case.   The tendency to formalize the relationship and therefore to live the emotional life as a chess game with precise rules, in which one must always make the right move and can take advantage of the error of the other, reduces the spontaneity of behaviors that to guarantee greater security must be standardized.   Often those who don’t feel good about themselves think that their spontaneity must in some way be substituted with more adequate behaviors and even that spontaneous discourses must be replaced by speeches that seem to be theoretically more adequate. Sometimes it happens in a chat to meet guys who strive to say only things that they think can give a positive image of themselves and can make them look like good guys.   The most typical element of these behaviors, on the sexual level, is the sublimation of sexuality and its total removal from the discourse. In this way a dialogue is created that has the evident flavor of the lack of spontaneity. When guys succeed in overcoming the wall of sublimation and managing to speak freely of sexuality they tend to emphasize the strange if not pathological dimension of certain behaviors, such as masturbation and sexual fantasies about their friends, as if these things were the clear sign of their inadequacy. In substance things that are perfectly normal are experienced as anomalous and strange, and here the weight of the educational conditioning is evident; I mean that guys try to give a personal motivation of their low self-esteem on the basis of behaviors that are not at all related to the low self-esteem.   After a finally serious talk, the result of a strenuous sincerity, I notice the amazement of the guys who expect some strong reactions and they only hear: "Ok, but where's the problem?" Basically these guys perceive their being gay as a strange thing and their sexuality as something unique and very far from the sexuality of others, and in particular from the sexuality of other gay boys, that they don’t know except through representations that are decidedly unrealistic if not even misleading.   Many times talking serenely about sexuality helps to resize, to see things in more objective terms and makes us understand that sexuality is an ordinary dimension of everyone's life and that being gay essentially means simply falling in love with a boy instead of a girl.   Heterosexuals and (obsessive) fear of being gay   Particular attention should be paid to the discomfort deriving from the very idea of being gay or being about to become gay. It happened to me more than once that I was contacted by straight guys who had doubts about their sexual orientation, that is not from gay guys who had problems with acceptance. For some of these guys talking to me really had the sense of clearing up ideas to overcome doubts. With some of these guys, good relations have been maintained even after many years. For other guys objectively hetero, however, overcome doubts was much more difficult. Although they had a sexuality that had absolutely nothing that could be considered gay, these guys couldn’t reassure themselves and contacted me several times because for them the idea of being gay was a content basically obsessive that, even if objectively completely unfounded, deeply disturbing their sexuality.   An very significant example is that of a straight guy who has never had gay masturbation fantasies, but who cannot satisfactorily masturbate  thinking of a girl because the idea of being, perhaps, a gay who doesn’t accept his homosexuality always intervenes, and this idea ruins his sex life, but it must be stressed that all this happens to a guy who has never had any emotional or sexual interests oriented towards other guys. Such cases, which present themselves as problems of sexual orientation, in fact, have nothing to do with gay sexuality but are triggered by states of distress often linked to heterosexuality or hetero-affectivity, family relationships, relationships of work, economic insecurity and many other factors, as well as obviously a certain predisposition to obsession.   These situations can be at the border of true forms of OCD, that is obsessive compulsive disorder, and can also be the manifestation of the OCD itself.   Gays and discomfort of being gay   Even for gay guys, that is, for guys with exclusively gay masturbation fantasies, being gay can be a source of discomfort, sometimes even serious. Gay sexual identity can be unknowingly rejected or in some cases it can become the object of a conscious and determined self-repression. In these cases, gay masturbation is experienced with feelings of guilt that are deep, such as a giving in to evil or slipping into a pathological dimension, and the hypothesis of emotional and sexual correspondence with another guy is systematically set aside, avoiding a priori all the occasions in which a minimum of intimacy could be created (traveling with other guys, sleeping at a friend's house, etc.). This is the case of the "I don’t want to be gay!" These situations of discomfort are a sign of dependence on the judgment of others and of need to be accepted within a group (family, friends) to which one ends up sacrificing one's own sexuality.   The pressure exerted by the search for the homologation can be so strong to push a gay guy to make the so-called choices according to nature (heterosexuality and marriage) that are radically against nature for a gay guy.   Pessimism, depressive attitudes and self-esteem   They must also be considered the pessimistic and depressive psychological attitudes that manifest themselves as a symptom of low self-esteem in expressions like: "the others at my age have already achieved everything", or: "I will never combine anything", or again: "I know that sooner or later I will give up everything".   Often the elements of a psychological nature that lead to discouragement and to the vision of oneself as a weak element intersect with elements of real or presumed physical inadequacy. The idea of disengagement or of the uselessness of commitment occupies in many cases the minds of young people who feel psychologically inadequate, the choices become problematic and the irresoluteness ends up prevailing.   These guys, in general, don’t enter into love stories because, for them, making an important decision is difficult but they fall in love in a serious and essentially one-sided way with impossible guys or almost always straight guys or gay guys who don’t give them any satisfactory response, in any case with guys with whom, therefore, a true couple relationship is in fact impossible.   Low self-esteem and search for the ideal partner   Particular attention should be given to the tendency to involve others in solving one’s own problems, or even to rely totally on others in an overly confident manner and without the support of adequate rational control, a tendency that manifests with expressions like: "But if I had met a boy, things would have gone another way", or: " With a guy near me, I would not be afraid of anything" and the like.   I often see undecided guys, with low self-esteem and easy to discourage, engaged in a frantic search for a partner to try to find an answer to their problems. These are guys who, in general, from this research end up getting further frustrations due to the fact that, because of their insecurity, they pay little attention to the choice of their partner and are willing to give too quickly confidence to the first guy who shows them some form of availability and with that guy they try to create very close relationships, which are seen on the other side as suffocating and for this reason are not welcome.   An insecure boy who tends to involve others in the solution of his problems, needs a constant reassurance, he asks, he requires, he reacts badly when he doesn’t find such a reassurance, tends, unconsciously, to compel his companion to listen to him for hours, besieges him with a storm of SMS and e-mails demanding continuous confirmations without offering any.   Unilateral discourses and dependence   A characteristic of these situations is the one-way speech, the insecure guy speaks and his companion must listen, if this doesn’t happen the insecure guy feels victim and demonstrates it very clearly, in an attempt to recall the attention of his companion, but this mechanism only exasperates the situation.   In some cases things are more complex and the search for the solution to one's discomfort through the total entrusting to another person leads to the construction of true dependency relationships that have the appearance of affective relationships but are only dysfunctional responses to the low self-esteem, because they lack a true rational control. In these situations, the guy who experiences discomfort is willing to do anything to have an affective response or an alleged affective response on the part of the person to whom he is totally entrusted and from whom he is essentially dependent.   Frenetic phase and sexual embarrassment   Often, especially for non-youngster guys, situations of discomfort are created when acceptance comes after 25/30 years (and even beyond). The guys who find themselves in these situations are in many cases obsessed with the idea of recover the lost time (frenetic phase) and they live belatedly the affective and sexual experiences typical of adolescence. In these circumstances, the first contacts with the couple sexuality can create embarrassment and not small conditioning, because the a priori models of gay sexuality interfere heavily with the search for the real balance typical of the specific sexuality of each couple. It is the so-called sexual embarrassment that comes from the “myth of sexuality” and from inexperience.   There are older guys who are in crisis because of the lack of erection in situations where in theory there should be, or because they have difficulty in achieving orgasm even in individual masturbation practiced in the presence of their partner, even if they reach easily the orgasm in individual masturbation. In these cases the real fear is that embarrassment and inexperience can condition or even destroy extremely important emotional relationships.   Sexuality doesn’t get along with anxiety and getting used to talking about sexuality with one’s own partner in a simple and direct way helps to reduce anxiety and thus promotes the free expression of sexuality.   GAY SEX AND HYPOCRISY Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-14-2018, 07:13 PM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies Hello Project, I see that the forum is almost abandoned and I don’t like at all such a situation, because the forum helped me a lot, especially the reference text on homosexuality ”Being Gay”. It helped me to open my eyes and not believe the mountain of absurdities I had read around the internet. Because in fact, a boy finds himself disoriented above all by not knowing things or by having false information and then is there someone reliable who can answer questions about gay life and gay sex? Certainly there are not so many! If you get to the forum you can read and remain anonymous, what is not dangerous at all, you can take as long as you want reading and browsing, in short, it is something you need. But now I come to the point.  The respect for gays is a good thing, no problem, but you say and repeat that for a gay boy, today, finding another guy and live a true love story it’s something really possible. And here I don’t follow you, Project, I’m not very young, I’m 28 years old, and have had my experiences, I’ve had a lot of guys, at all levels, I mean, from stories that seemed the fundamental thing in life and the incarnated fable, to disengaged stories of only sex or a little more, if it happens.  I never found real dirty playboys or people who just wanted to play with me, everyone had his motivations, more or less as I had them, but then in the end, inevitably, the stories faded, just ended up in nothing or became friendships more or less washed out, and yet I passed from one story to another, less and less convinced that the next would be the definitive one. In the end it becomes a kind of game, you just lack the basic thrust to take things seriously and even on the other side you see that it’s the same.  The guys I met, all in all, were good guys, everyone had his weaknesses and his fixed ideas and we never have been able to find a balance I don’t say perfect but not even approximate and this also in sex, I found very little spontaneity, for the most it was about repeating a part, the same part already repeated several times with other guys.  Sometimes I felt that I was just the replacement for another guy who was not there, as if to say that my partner of the day was actually thinking of another, but since that other guy was not there then I was better than nothing. It’s not that I’m scandalized, for heaven’s sake, but it’s not the best. If you don’t even think about me when we have sex, it means that you never really think about it. I have also practically lost my spontaneity. I usually let my partners do, I don’t take initiatives, a do so just to see how things go. Many are hypocrites, they come with me only to have sex but they don’t want to admit it and they make an endless rigamarole to make it look like they do it to please me and I cannot stand these things and so I enjoy provoking those guys.  But I have to tell you about the guys connected to the church. They are gay to the bone, they run around me in a pitiful way, but for them to admit that what they are doing it just hunting for gay sex is not really possible. One stressed me with a ruthless and sticky courting for a long time. Once, in his house, he hugged me in a very sensual way, I told him: ”Go ahead!” But he told me he was not gay and he was just confused and he apologized a thousand times, not even two hours later we did what we had to do and then he told me that he felt dirty and that he did something he didn’t want to do and that he thought that what had happened would cause me a lot of trouble. I told him that he hadn’t created problems of any kind because we had used a condom.  Note, Project, the ultra-catholic and full of scrupulous type, had bought a pack of new condoms on the very morning when he knew I would go to his house! But he didn’t want to do it! I cannot stand the guys who do the dramas for a bit of sex, it’s just a bit of sex, the world has not collapsed, after, in fact, nothing changes for me or for you. What I cannot bear is the fact that some guys are just hunting for sex and instead they talk about love, they have learned by heart all a bla bla as fake guy in love, just movie stuff and they show it in front of you as if it were all true changing their face to suit the circumstances and modifying even their voice, they are just actors in the first category, but I cannot point it out to them, otherwise they attack me ... they are serious guys and I’m the one who went crazy for sex! I have sex and I like it and I say it, they on the contrary have sex, but they have complexes and don’t want to admit it and then for them I must be the one who went crazy for sex.  One also made obscene suggestions to me (obscene on the reverse): ”We have to continue to see each other but we don’t have to have sex anymore!”. I put him to the test, but the next time the whole script restarted from the beginning: the acting as a lover, then a bit of sex and in the end so many complexes and the usual proposal: ”We don’t have to have sex anymore!” So I ask myself, but are they really so hypocrite or they pretend? One had a girlfriend, and according to what he says he was also having sex with her, but he also went to Mass on Sundays, and this already sounds strange, but there’s even more.  He was also my ”friend” and yes because to define the thing he used only this word, because he was ”hetero”, even if he didn’t behave too much as a friend, looking for moments of intimacy and stretching his hands, then I stopped him, because I like to play with these guys, and I said to him: ”Ok, you’re a nice guy and I like you too, but you have to admit that you want to have sex with me.” And then he was in crisis, because he would never admit it, and so he remained dry mouth i too went dry, unfortunately.  The next time I didn’t make any premise and things automatically slid into sex and, later, I said to him ”You saw that you did it!” And he replied: ”But you provoke me, you don’t have to, because so you put me in crisis, try to understand it!”  A guy once wanted me to have sex without a condom and I told him: ”Nice guy! Do you think I drank my brain?” And he insisted he was hiv negative, ant it was the first time for him ... nothing less! The first time! At 30! Now let’s try to sum up: guys like that are good for a bit of sex but I cannot put myself with a deranged one like that. I need an honest guy, maybe or even better, crazy for sex like me, my way, but not fixed with other things and above all not used to telling people and telling himself nonsense, however, Project, until now I have not found anyone this way.  I am not at all convinced that for a gay to be in couple is the best thing and I think that in essence there are many people who think so, even if they will never admit it because guys like very much the story of the charming prince even at 30 years. If and when gays will be allowed to marry, well, I don’t think I’ll ever marry, because then it would end in a divorce soon. Maybe as an old man, at 50 years and over, one might think about getting married for the survivor’s pension, if guys from my generation will ever get a pension.  Project, but why is there so much hypocrisy on the part of gays? One should say, ”I’m gay and I’m happy to be so, and I like sex too!” But no! The world is full of half-gays, I’m not talking about the closeted ones but about gay people who pretend they are not even gay when they’re having sex with a guy!  I also come from a Catholic family, but then I said: No! That’s enough! I cannot live on hypocrisy, I want a life my way, maybe that creaks from all sides but without acting, without fictions of any kind, well, I have not yet found guys who reason like me. I want a real gay guy who is happy to be so, and doesn’t make fun of himself and me too.   ACTING A GAY LOVE Posted by: gayprojectforum - 06-13-2018, 03:30 PM - Forum: Gay discomfort - No Replies Dear Project, mine will perhaps be a voice very in contrast to the contents of the forum, perhaps because I am frustrated, perhaps because the negative things happen only to me . . . forget it. I read very beautiful stories, and I'm glad that these things exist, but how is it that I've never experienced such things?  In my life (I have just turned 30) I have not met delinquents, this is true, but not even saints willing to sacrifice for the neighbor, I found so many mediocre people, I think more or less like me, who made big altruistic talk but in the end were interested only in their own business, many little men and little women, without a real personality, without a distorted personality precisely because without any personality, ready to sell themselves and sell you to realize the first stupid thing that comes to their mind. I did it too, and I'm not ashamed of it, because life works like that and fairy tales are much more dangerous than a stupid reality. I don’t accuse anyone, but I never saw the gay paradise on earth, and among the straight things are more or less identical.  Everyone thinks only of himself and if there is a wise thing it is to think of one's own business. Years ago I thought it was possible to fall in love, today I think it's the most stupid thing that can happen to us. Falling in love is not an altruistic thing, it just means expecting something from someone, expecting a correspondence of feelings that cannot be there and when one understands it, it’s always too late. Falling in love is not part of being but of possessing. I wonder if I really am the only loser who has always taken the wrong card and has also given it, or if they are others who continue to believe in the fantasies because they need to call love their sense of possession.  But it would not be easier and even more honest to go to one and say: "Do you want to have a little sex with me and then friends as before?" And instead we falsify everything and invent a completely false novel. I can understand maybe the eighteen year old guy who has never experienced such things, but the 25-30 year old guys who did and suffered things of any kind should have passed the stage of the romance.  A few days ago it happened to me that someone tried to get along with me, so long as it is a little talk, ok, no small talk is denied to anyone, but then he started acting (clearly it was not a play for him) the part of the lover and then I felt a moment of rejection. I cannot stand sticky things, I cannot stand the big words behind which there is nothing. I reacted badly and sent him to hell.  If one still needs to act like children, well, he can do whatever he wants, but I have no time to waste behind such things. Now I resumed attending my old straight friends, at least there is no risk that I make a declaration of love, they play it with girls, in short, the whole world is always the same thing. You say, Project, that being gay is a way of loving, if it were so, there would be very few gays, being gay has nothing noble, as there is nothing noble in being straight. We're all poor clowns who need a script to play! Pages (55): « Previous 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 ... 55 Next » Jump to page: