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  DANGEROUS GAY DATING
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:50 AM - Forum: Gay orientation - No Replies

This post is dedicated to dangerous gay dating and is aimed primarily at younger guys but also at older guys who have no real knowledge of environments and potentially dangerous situations.

Among gays, as among heterosexuals, there are people who are looking for easy sex taking advantage of all the opportunities that the network can offer that are very many, some classic and well known like sex chats and dating sites, whose declared aim, in a more or less explicit way, is to combine sexual encounters, others far more subtle, that capture young guys often completely unprepared.

I try to explain with an example. A gay guy has a blog or facebook profile in which people can find his personal data that enable the identification, that guy publishes on his blog or on his profile contents that allow an experienced eye to identify him as gay (it is not necessary that the content is explicit). With a quick search via google for the sex hunter it is easy to identify similar situations. Identified the target, typically through a photo, which allows to immediately discard uninteresting people, the sex hunter adds a “serious” comment on the Blog of the guy or in his profile in order to stimulate the interest of the victim. I emphasize that, in principle, the commentary added tends to respond to the expectations of the potential victim or to emphasize the similarity with the victim: same language, very similar age, very similar emotional attitudes. Following are three authentic messages left on blogs and profiles of guys identified as gay by sex hunters (people which later have been clearly identified as sex hunters):

“Hello, I read your post and I felt like crying, but why do we feel so bad? It’s not fair! You are a guy so sensitive and must stay that way. I have happened the same thing. Relationships with my parents were terrible, traumatic, relationships with friends nothing at all, now I’m alone and I do not know where to turn. If you want to talk a little, this is my contact [omitted]. “

“I do not know if it happens to you, but I really need physically to be near a guy and no one is near me, I never had a guy but I miss a guy so much. You’re right when you say that masturbation is not enough anymore. I also want a real guy near me! Please, contact me. “

“What a beautiful post! I’m tired, I always tell lies, I would like to be able to speak with a guy in my real life, I would like to understand how he lives, I would fall in love, I can’t stand no more to be alone! If you want to talk I’m here. “

Into these messages you can identify some subliminal contents which can be summarized as follows:
1) I’m a guy like you, more or less your age and with problems similar to yours
2) I have never had a boyfriend (encouraging message that tends to exorcise the risk of aids)
If the first message is followed by a response from the recipient, in the reply of the guy who is searching for sex appears immediately or very soon the question: “Where are you from?” (If the information is not deductible from the blog or from the profile of the victim) and the request for the exchange of pictures. Both the questions “where are you from?” and the exchange of photos are used to make a selection: if the victim doesn’t look pleasing to the sex hunter or lives in places far away the exchange of messages is designed to fade quickly, on the contrary in case the victim’s residence is in the same city of the sex hunter and the gay has a pleasing appearance starts a “short” period of contact in chat, a period that usually does not exceed a week. If the sex hunter sees the other guy showing very reserved attitudes he may decide to let him go in order not to waste too much time, if he sees instead a real interest (if he is called on the phone by the victim, if the conversation comes early to touch though moderately explicit sexual contents) you will arrive at the inevitable invitation to behold in person. Of course, the invitation is offered to “talk” to “drink”, to “know each other better.”

I emphasize that the sex hunter does not make references of a sexual nature, he puts things in terms of friendship, tends to create affectionate intimacy with the victim but also tends to “shorten the time of the contacts in chat” and goes as soon as possible to a face to face meeting. I reproduce below an excerpt from a chat between a 32 y. o. sex hunter and a 16 y. o. guy (names have been changed).

32 y. o. writes – Hello Mark, are you okay?
16 y. o. writes – I was waiting for your call!
32 y. o. writes – Well, I enjoy very much chatting with you, in fact just as much …
16 y. o. writes – I’m happy! In practice last night I was up all night … and I don’t tell you why
32 y. o. writes – Come on, why?
16 y. o. writes – Well I thought about everything you said to me yesterday, about your story and the fact that, really that guy did not deserved you, basically he just deluded you
32 y. o. writes – And yes in a way it is just that, but I do not care so much about sex, however, I felt betrayed, mocked, for me to fall in love is a serious thing, I don’t like at all the guys who take sex as a game.
16 y. o. writes – But, you know, people are not all like you and there are also guys who only think about sex and a little I can understand them, because in the end a guy thinks a lot about sex, not only that, but certainly he does.
32 y. o. writes – Well, yes, ok, but in the end taking care of yourself is another thing, maybe you think I’m too traditional but if you fall in love with a guy you have to do it seriously
16 y. o. writes – I agree, but in the end there is also sex
32 y. o. writes – But where are you from? Because we talked about everything but this, I’m in Milan
16 y. o. writes – Really? Me too! And where exactly?
32 y. o. writes – San Siro and you?
16 y. o. writes – I Niguarda. At the end we live very close!
32 y. o. writes – What do you think if we were to see in person, for a drink or something
16 y. o. writes – Actually, I’d like to but I’m not used to go to the gay clubs
32 y. o. writes – No gay clubs at all! I don’t like such things. No, I’m talking about a coffee shop with a tea room. I would never go to a gay bar.
16 y. o. writes – Ah, ok, that’s fine by me
32 y. o. writes – This evening?
16 y. o. writes – Yes, but not so late because my parents expect me to be home before eleven
32 y. o. writes – At eleven o’clock you’ll get back home safe, I’ll take you back
16 y. o. writes – Then what time and where?
32 y. o. writes – If you tell me where, I I’ll pick you home
16 y. o. writes – I am at [omissis]
32 y. o. writes – Well I’ll be there at six, right?
16 y. o. writes – Perfect!
32 y. o. writes – My phone is [omitted], if you give me yours, in case of need I can call
16 y. o. writes – Ok here [omissis], then I’ll wait for you at six THANK YOU!
32 y. o. writer – Thank you! See you at six. Bye!
16 y. o. writes – Bye!

This way the 32 y. o. came to know where the 16 y. o. lives and even his phone number [always pay attention before giving other people addresses or phone numbers, including cell phone, allowing your identification!]. Up to this point theoretically nothing would suggest that the 32 y. o. is a sex hunter. It should be emphasized that when a sex hunter realizes that he has to do with a guy who has already had a lot of experiences in general is more cautious because the other knows how things grow and also because the fear of AIDS sometimes holds the sex hunters back, especially when they feel that you are in potentially dangerous situations.

I emphasize that the chat which I quoted above does not end with an invitation to the 16 y. o. by 32 y.o. to meet at the home of 32 y. o. because it would sound strange and the invitation would be refused, but with an invitation that apparently has nothing to do with a meeting for sex.

The 32 y. o. of the chat above shows affectively at 18.00 o’clock to the meeting place with a nice car cleaned and polished for the occasion, and elegantly dressed, but without excess. The bar chosen is an average but the table is quite separate and apart. The real conversation develops more or less like this (the text was reconstructed from the 16 y. o. after about two weeks):

32 y. o. writes – You know you’re a really a nice guy?
16 y. o. writes – Come on!
32 y. o. writes – You have two beautiful eyes!
At this time, taking advantage of the embarrassment of the 16 y. o., the 32 y. o. starts the first physical contact, rests his leg on the boy’s leg, as if it were random, the guy responds with a sheepish grin.
32 y. o. writes – If it bothers you I’ll take it off …
16 y. o. writes – No, come on, no problem …
32 y. o. writes – What a beautiful smile you have! You have a very sweet face of a male, a rare thing …
16 y. o. writes – Come on…
32 y. o. writer – You are high, just to look good, you look older than your age and you have also beautiful hands
16 y. o. writes – Come on … you’re embarrassing me …
32 y. o. writes – You have beautiful lips … look into my eyes, you know that you can see the soul in the eyes and yours is beautiful … Can I hold your hand? Come on please … under the table, so no one can see us … here … how nice! … sit down here next to me, well … I feel your heat … I wanna kiss, I miss your lips, … it will be beautiful

The 32 y. o. brings the hand of the guy to rest on his hard penis, the guy does not move the hand from there, what authorizes the 32 y. o. to feel the penis of the 16 y. o. which of course is totally rigid. Now the sexual contact is established, and the 16 year old has expressed clearly his consent. The 32 y. o. does not dare the proposal to go to his house, but proposes to go in the car to feel more confident and comfortable.

32 y. o. writes – I’d eat you with kisses, hug you tight to hurt you! By now we have to stay a little quiet so we calm down and we can go a little in the car. You are not only beautiful you are also sexy! Eh eh! Oh, if you feel uncomfortable I’ll take you home, you just have to say …
16 y. o. writes – Come on, no problem, a little embarrassment because it is my first time, however, it is nice, I feel very strong sex drive, when you touched me I was about to come.
32 y. o. writes – now I think I’m in condition to go out …
16 y. o. writes – I’m not! wait a bit, now I just cannot.
32 y. o. writes – But you’re really beautiful!
16 y. o. writes – Look, if you go on this way we’ll have to wait until tomorrow …, wait … I’ll use the jacket, I don’t think people will notice …
32 y. o. writes – No, not at all … these are the keys, go in the car, I pay the bill and join you
16 y. o. writes – Ok …

When they are in the car sexual contact becomes more explicit. The sex hunter does not exaggerate to consolidate slowly the consent of the 16 y. o., they arrive at mutual masturbation, and do not go any further, but the sexual involvement of the 16 y. o. is now complete and the 16 y. o. suggests oral sex, the 32 y. o. seems reluctant “I do not know if it’s right … but probably it’s too much…” but then, of course, he accepts and the 16 y. o. has the impression that he had leaded the game.

At this point appear the assurances of the absence of the AIDS risk:

32 y. o. writes – Don’t worry! No problem for the AIDS, I am a blood donor and I’m very careful and then I never had a boyfriend and I’ve never had sex with anyone, so you can feel comfortable.

Obviously he is NOT a blood donor, because a 32 y. o. guy who has sex on the first encounter with a 16 y. o. is not at his first sexual experience and it is extremely unlikely that a guy who has a promiscuous sex life is a blood donor, because on this point transfusion centers are very careful to avoid as much as possible to release some pockets of infected blood. Therefore or the 32 y. o. lies at the interview by blood transfusion center, what really is criminal not only stupid, or he cannot become a donor . The only serious reassurance about AIDS you can get is get tested for AIDS together with the gay and repeat the test after the window period (6 months or less with the latest and more sensitive tests). Only this way you can be sure that the test has been actually done and that the results prove the absence of risk. Trust the claims of a 32 y. o. who when he first meets a 16 y. o. guy has sex with him is get heavily at risk. The “LOW aids risk” on certain sexual practices considered less dangerous does not mean that instead of AIDS, since the risk is low, you get a cold, but that is less likely to become infected, but if you become infected you’ll become certainly HIV positive with all that this entails. USE YOUR BRAIN BEFORE ANY SEXUAL CONTACT. IT’IS TO SAVE YOU LIVE!

The 16 y. o., at the end of his first experience with the 32 y. o. does not feel depressed or victim, but feels great, has the impression of being able to have a power over an older guy, to be free to do whatever he wants and is also pleased with himself, he considers what he did as an experience of love and passion and sees the older gay as his 32 y. o. boyfriend, would become the center of the life of that guy, knowing everything about his life, in practice, would like to build a partnership with him, but this is where dreams break down. The 32 y. o. has his life in which the 16 y. o. cannot and must not enter, the 32 y. o. is not available when the 16 y. o. wants him to be there but the 16 y. o. must to be always available when the 32 y. o. calls him . It’s impossible to talk about the test for AIDS because the answer is always the same: “I told you that there is no risk!” Least of all you can see the blood donor card, you can instead see the results of an HIV not recent test, according to which the 32 y. o. is HIV-negative. But this means only one thing and that is that the 32 y. o. had in other situations, the fear of being HIV positive and for this reason took the test, what is not reassuring at all. The guys who have never had sexual intercourses have obviously never been tested for HIV, on the contrary who has been tested must have had some concern related to sex most likely at risk.

I add one more consideration, after an unprotected intercourse and even after a low risk behavior (low risk does not mean no risk) generally occurs the fear of AIDS, fear that UNFORTUNATELY OCCURS ALWAYS AFTER AND NOT BEFORE, and the guys takes the test that must be repeated after a few months. All this, however, deprives them quiet for a long time, even though, fortunately, are not so frequent the cases where you end up HIV-positive because of an intercourse with a person you do not know with certainty whether or not is HIV-negative.

The relationship between the 16 y. o. and 32 y. o. ends when the 16 y. o. becomes aware of being just a sexual diversion and nothing more, then occurs the sense of frustration and confusion and he has the impression of having thrown away his sexuality with a person who was nothing but a sex hunter, and if it was his first sexual experience, an experience like this will affect for a while the sexuality of the 16 y. o.. But one thing must be said: EVEN IF IT ‘S BETTER TO USE YOUR BRAIN BEFORE THAN AFTER, IT’S ALWAYS GOOD TO START USING IT!

CONCLUSIONS

Stories like the one shown in this article HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GAY LOVE, are squalid stories of unscrupulous boarding and ingenuity, two ingredients that when put together become very dangerous. The gay love is a serious matter and needs to grow on a true affective base, it is not an experience but it’s a way to love a person.

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  THE POPE DEFENDS HUMANITY FROM THE GAY DANGER
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:44 AM - Forum: Gays and religion - No Replies

The Pope, in his speech on Christmas day, again “defended the role of the family” invoking a strong political consensus against the recognition of LGBT rights. The speech, as usual, is presented as a principled defense of the family in which the word homosexual is never even mentioned, a matter of style: nothing is done against someone but it is made to the defense of the essential principles.

In fact, these iterated statements are a response to the progressive enlargement of GLBT rights towards complete equalization with the rights of anyone else, which in a secular state is a principle of civilization absolutely essential and poses no risk to the traditional family. Homosexuality, as I have said many times, is not a culture that we can preach or propagate: “you do not become homosexual, you are”.

The famous statement by Simone de Beauvoir: “you don’t are a women, you become it,” quoted by the Pope, has an obvious meaning for those who want to understand it, in that sense also “you don’t are a gay, you become it”. That does not mean that homosexuality is a culture that can be transmitted but that awareness of the dignity and morality of being gay, beyond any teaching that tends to repress homosexuality is the result of a long journey and painful that must lead to the emergence of human dignity against any attempt to suppress it in the name of alleged principles of natural or divine origin.

What escapes the Pope or who benefits from these statement is the fact that the Gays and Christian Gays in particular (I do not mean those Catholics), not only do not feel bearers of an inclination “intrinsically disordered” according to the expression used by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but feel bearers of a message of high morality, freedom, equality, which can only benefit the whole of society.

Accusing the GLBT population to put at risk the natural world is not only false but is an incitement to hatred (gay as a risk for family and society) and a legitimization of homophobia. It is a moral depth that brings the GLBT population to fight for a more just and more humane society. We must not forget the suicides of gay teens and we must ask whether the moral condemnation of homosexuality that the Catholic Church continually reiterates contributes to determine these things.

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  GAYS AND JUDGMENTS OF U.S. SUPREME COURT
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:42 AM - Forum: Homosexuality in history and literature - No Replies

This article aims to highlight how in less than twenty years the legal status of gay people in the U.S. has been radically changed. We start from the XIV Amendment.

___________
U.S. CONSTITUTION – AMENDMENT XIV – SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
_______________

The amendment subordinates the State’s right to deprive a person of life, liberty, or property, to the condition that it takes place with due process of law. This is not easy to understand for an European like I’m because in the European Union the death penalty is prohibited by constitutional laws. But here we must deal with the legal status of gay people in the U.S.. The clause of due process under the fourteenth amendment has traditionally been relied on by gay people as a basis for the recognition of their rights in the U.S..

The judgment of the Supreme Court of the United States in the process “Bowers versus Hardwick”, 478 U.S. 186, called shortly Bowers judgment, delivered on 10.06.1986
(http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0478_0186_ZS.html ), considered the charge made to the Statute of Georgia according to which it would violate individual rights through condemnation of sodomy between consenting adult males, concluded that:

1) The Constitution does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy. None of the fundamental rights announced in this Court’s prior cases involving family relationships, marriage, or procreation bear any resemblance to the right asserted in this case. And any claim that those cases stand for the proposition that any kind of private sexual conduct between consenting adults is constitutionally insulated from state proscription is unsupportable.

2) Against a background in which many States have criminalized sodomy and still do, to claim that a right to engage in such conduct is “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition” or “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty” is, at best, facetious.

3) There should be great resistance to expand the reach of the Due Process Clauses to cover new fundamental rights.

4) The fact that homosexual behavior occurs in the intimacy of a private home doesn’t matter at all.
5) Sodomy laws should not be invalidated on the asserted basis that majority belief that sodomy is immoral is an inadequate rationale to support the laws.
With this judgment of June 1986, in practice the Supreme Court considers legitimate the laws of individual states that criminalize specific sexual practices or discriminate against homosexuality as such.
I reproduce below the fundamental judgment LAWRENCE versus TEXAS that in a social climate profoundly changed has radically overturned the earlier decision of 1986.
_______________
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
LAWRENCE et al. v. TEXAS

CERTIORARI TO THE COURT OF APPEALS OF TEXAS, FOURTEENTH DISTRICT
No. 02—102. Argued March 26, 2003–Decided June 26, 2003

Responding to a reported weapons disturbance in a private residence, Houston police entered petitioner Lawrence’s apartment and saw him and another adult man, petitioner Garner, engaging in a private, consensual sexual act. Petitioners were arrested and convicted of deviate sexual intercourse in violation of a Texas statute forbidding two persons of the same sex to engage in certain intimate sexual conduct. In affirming, the State Court of Appeals held, inter alia, that the statute was not unconstitutional under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The court considered Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186, controlling on that point.

Held: The Texas statute making it a crime for two persons of the same sex to engage in certain intimate sexual conduct violates the Due Process Clause. Pp. 3—18.

(a) Resolution of this case depends on whether petitioners were free as adults to engage in private conduct in the exercise of their liberty under the Due Process Clause. For this inquiry the Court deems it necessary to reconsider its Bowers holding. The Bowers Court’s initial substantive statement–“The issue presented is whether the Federal Constitution confers a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy … ,” 478 U.S., at 190–discloses the Court’s failure to appreciate the extent of the liberty at stake. To say that the issue in Bowers was simply the right to engage in certain sexual conduct demeans the claim the individual put forward, just as it would demean a married couple were it said that marriage is just about the right to have sexual intercourse. Although the laws involved in Bowers and here purport to do not more than prohibit a particular sexual act, their penalties and purposes have more far-reaching consequences, touching upon the most private human conduct, sexual behavior, and in the most private of places, the home. They seek to control a personal relationship that, whether or not entitled to formal recognition in the law, is within the liberty of persons to choose without being punished as criminals. The liberty protected by the Constitution allows homosexual persons the right to choose to enter upon relationships in the confines of their homes and their own private lives and still retain their dignity as free persons. Pp. 3—6.

(b) Having misapprehended the liberty claim presented to it, the Bowers Court stated that proscriptions against sodomy have ancient roots. 478 U.S., at 192. It should be noted, however, that there is no longstanding history in this country of laws directed at homosexual conduct as a distinct matter. Early American sodomy laws were not directed at homosexuals as such but instead sought to prohibit nonprocreative sexual activity more generally, whether between men and women or men and men. Moreover, early sodomy laws seem not to have been enforced against consenting adults acting in private. Instead, sodomy prosecutions often involved predatory acts against those who could not or did not consent: relations between men and minor girls or boys, between adults involving force, between adults implicating disparity in status, or between men and animals. The longstanding criminal prohibition of homosexual sodomy upon which Bowers placed such reliance is as consistent with a general condemnation of nonprocreative sex as it is with an established tradition of prosecuting acts because of their homosexual character. Far from possessing “ancient roots,” ibid., American laws targeting same-sex couples did not develop until the last third of the 20th century. Even now, only nine States have singled out same-sex relations for criminal prosecution. Thus, the historical grounds relied upon in Bowers are more complex than the majority opinion and the concurring opinion by Chief Justice Burger there indicated. They are not without doubt and, at the very least, are overstated. The Bowers Court was, of course, making the broader point that for centuries there have been powerful voices to condemn homosexual conduct as immoral, but this Court’s obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate its own moral code, Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 850. The Nation’s laws and traditions in the past half century are most relevant here. They show an emerging awareness that liberty gives substantial protection to adult persons in deciding how to conduct their private lives in matters pertaining to sex. See County of Sacramento v. Lewis523 U.S. 833, 857. Pp. 6—12.

© Bowers’ deficiencies became even more apparent in the years following its announcement. The 25 States with laws prohibiting the conduct referenced in Bowers are reduced now to 13, of which 4 enforce their laws only against homosexual conduct. In those States, including Texas, that still proscribe sodomy (whether for same-sex or heterosexual conduct), there is a pattern of nonenforcement with respect to consenting adults acting in private. Casey, supra, at 851–which confirmed that the Due Process Clause protects personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, child rearing, and education–and Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620, 624–which struck down class-based legislation directed at homosexuals–cast Bowers’ holding into even more doubt. The stigma the Texas criminal statute imposes, moreover, is not trivial. Although the offense is but a minor misdemeanor, it remains a criminal offense with all that imports for the dignity of the persons charged, including notation of convictions on their records and on job application forms, and registration as sex offenders under state law. Where a case’s foundations have sustained serious erosion, criticism from other sources is of greater significance. In the United States, criticism of Bowers has been substantial and continuing, disapproving of its reasoning in all respects, not just as to its historical assumptions. And, to the extent Bowers relied on values shared with a wider civilization, the case’s reasoning and holding have been rejected by the European Court of Human Rights, and that other nations have taken action consistent with an affirmation of the protected right of homosexual adults to engage in intimate, consensual conduct. There has been no showing that in this country the governmental interest in circumscribing personal choice is somehow more legitimate or urgent. Stare decisis is not an inexorable command. Payne v. Tennessee501 U.S. 808, 828. Bowers’ holding has not induced detrimental reliance of the sort that could counsel against overturning it once there are compelling reasons to do so. Casey, supra, at 855—856. Bowers causes uncertainty, for the precedents before and after it contradict its central holding. Pp. 12—17.

(d) Bowers’ rationale does not withstand careful analysis. In his dissenting opinion in Bowers Justice Stevens concluded that (1) the fact a State’s governing majority has traditionally viewed a particular practice as immoral is not a sufficient reason for upholding a law prohibiting the practice, and (2) individual decisions concerning the intimacies of physical relationships, even when not intended to produce offspring, are a form of “liberty” protected by due process. That analysis should have controlled Bowers, and it controls here. Bowers was not correct when it was decided, is not correct today, and is hereby overruled. This case does not involve minors, persons who might be injured or coerced, those who might not easily refuse consent, or public conduct or prostitution. It does involve two adults who, with full and mutual consent, engaged in sexual practices common to a homosexual lifestyle. Petitioners’ right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in private conduct without government intervention. Caseysupra, at 847. The Texas statute furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the individual’s personal and private life. Pp. 17—18.

41 S. W. 3d 349, reversed and remanded.

Kennedy, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ., joined. O’Connor, J., filed an opinion concurring in the judgment. Scalia, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Rehnquist, C. J., and Thomas, J., joined. Thomas, J., filed a dissenting opinion.

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  GAY GUYS AND HETERO VIDEOCHATS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:36 AM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

It happened to me several times in recent times to talk to young people between 20 and 30 y. o. who experienced doubts about their sexual orientation but in a very particular context seriously characterized in terms of heterosexuality.

I’m talking about guys now out of adolescence, substantially young men who have certainly an emotional and sexual hetero life and have a girlfriend not just for show, I do not say they had a girlfriend but they have a girlfriend and talk about her how a straight guy talks about a girl he is in love with in earnest sense, both emotional and sexual, but not only, I’m talking about guys who have a sexual history, from the beginning of the adolescence up to 19-20 years or so, completely devoid of episodes that can make think of a repressed homosexuality in the past or even in the present.

An important element concerns the masturbation that is never in gay key but is not always in straight key because masturbation begins to manifest itself at least in a certain percentage as a mere physical fact, completely detached from sexual fantasies. For these guys masturbation with hetero fantasies remains satisfactory but the frequency of only physical masturbation without fantasies comes also to 60/70%, which means that masturbation almost completely lost its projective sentimental value, in these cases, we talk of mechanical or affectless masturbation.

These guys have no problems to speak explicitly about their sexuality and they do so not neurotically but at the same time rationally and spontaneously. In theory, there is no indication in their sexuality related with a gay repressed identity, dealing with the girls they have no particular problems and live the typical sexuality of a heterosexual couple in a genuine affective dimension. In the lives of these guys, however, there have been not negligible incidents that conditioned them. These episodes are derived from the need to find answers that are not found in ordinary life because of an environment in which to talk seriously about sexuality is virtually impossible, sex education is totally delegated to the peer group and in fact to the pornography and the development of sexuality is taken for granted as a necessary evolution of a natural instinct.

It seems incredible but still in the twenty-first century there is the taboo of masturbation, which is seen as a phenomenon strictly related with adolescence that must be overcome as soon as possible through couple sexuality. This idea, which has no basis if not a preconception of very old origin, still creates situations of distress in guys who, despite having a girl and having a sex life with her as far as possible, continue to practice masturbation.

Here, the guilt have nothing to do with religion but depends on the idea of not being able to be sexually adults, that is not to settle for couple sexuality, what, among other things, for a variety of environmental conditions, for many straight guys is not a very frequent thing. For a guy it’s not easy to talk about these things and of course it is not easy in particular to talk about with his girlfriends, here comes the desire to know less superficially about the sex lives of other guys, to understand how they live the relationship between masturbatory sexuality and couple sexuality.

For a straight guy the first place to look for comparison with other straight guys should be a straight chat and here misunderstandings begin to arise. In a straight chat a straight guy should go to look for girls. There are really girls on the straight chats but not so many and the ones that are there are also the subject of attention of several young guys. It happens, and it is not uncommon, that a straight guy in a straight chat, looks for a comparison with other straight guys to talk to them about sexuality on condition of anonymity, assuming that in a straight chat there are only straight guys in the strict sense, which is very far from reality.

It often happens that straight chats are frequented by gay guys, or at least guys who have sex with guys. These gay guys using words and arguments typically straight try to engage straight guys in atmospheres that have nothing hetero at all. A tangible example: if I meet a “straight” guy in chat and he asks me to masturbate with him in video thinking of a girl or to understand how I react in front of a girl that he likes a lot, the alarm bell should sound, such behavior is not a typically straight behavior. The excuse is usually that masturbating together is something that all straight people do, which is absolutely false, and that if one is influenced by these things it means that he is gay, or he has a small penis, etc. etc.. These arguments often come to win inhibitions and, today, to find “straight” guys who masturbate together on “straight” video chat is not at all uncommon.

It may happen that actually strongly repressed gay guys come to gay sexuality searching unconsciously for gay sex on a straight chat and this mechanism of justification is quite efficient: I’m not looking for gay sex but for comparisons with other straight guys! In such situations you arrive earlier or later to understand the true meaning of what you are doing, but if a guy really “straight” arrives on a “straight” chat and gets involved in masturbation in cam with guys alleged “straight”, the situation is complicated because the straight guy will automatically be brought to see himself as a potential gay, that kind of experience that in his eyes is or was “straight” convince him that for a straight guy it is or it can be really normal to masturbate with another guy and he would like to repeat the experience, which often accompanies a growing interest in sexuality or rather in the guy’s sex, which increases the confusion.

In these situations, after masturbation a straight guy feels deeply guilt towards his girlfriend and the feeling of having thrown away his sexuality ends up producing situations violently ambivalent, on the one hand masturbation on cam attracts because paradoxically it qualifies the straight guy as a “normal hetero” because “everyone does it” but on the other rejects because it causes heavy guilt.

Behind all this lurks the specter of being perhaps gay and are not uncommon neurotic responses to the uncertainty of the sexual orientation as sexual experiments to verify the sexual orientation itself, in practice these are ways to test, to verify the sex response but are nevertheless neurotic mechanisms that have nothing to do with the spontaneous sexuality, and that because of their neurotic origin never provide reliable answers or definitive. I note that all this talk is strictly sexual and affection is entirely absent.

Let us ask ourselves for a moment who are “gay” guys who go into straight chats to induce guys to masturbate on cam, the answer is one, are not “real” gay guys i.e. guys who love guys but only guys who have sex with guys and do not fall in love with them. These guys tend to convey an image of homosexuality only sexual because for them the emotional involvement does not really exist and they may also be considered somehow straight and have an emotional hetero sexuality, but certainly they do not have an emotional gay sexuality.

A straight guy who impacts these people ends up considering himself gay because he masturbated on cam with guys and ignores completely the affective dimension that is essential in defining sexual orientation. There are so many guys who have sex with guys for a lot of reasons: game, comparison, etc., but all this does not make those guys gay, and even less a guy emotionally and sexually hetero should feel potentially gay for thinking that masturbating in video with other guys is a way to compare with them. 

The risk of sexual disorientation due to the use of video chat does really exist and real addictions can start which is good detox from as soon as possible to return to an affective sexuality and a projective emotional masturbation that allows you to relive and anticipate the emotional experience of sexual couple contact. It happens more and more often to talk in chat with straight guys genuinely and deeply conditioned by the idea of being gay because they had lived some experience “just sexual” that in their eyes is clearly gay, but when you see that to those experiences is associated only guilt without any emotional involvement it’s evident that “just sexual” experiences are sexual experiments of neurotic origin that have nothing to do with spontaneous sexual orientation.

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  GAY SEXUALITY AND NAKEDNESS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:33 AM - Forum: Gays and sex - No Replies

[Below is a discussion on the relationship between gay sexuality and nakedness appeared on Gay Project Forum.]
 
Hi, I would like to tell you a little about the story of my sexuality, at least summarily. In short, the point is that I don’t feel all this craving to do certain things with a guy. I read everywhere that there are guys who in order to have sex with a friend, would do who knows what and up to this point I can even agree, but can you explain to me what does it mean to have sex with a guy? Of porn videos I see many but now I'm immunized and in practice porn no longer makes me any effect, I have been also with some guys (i.e. I have not had sex, but I went close) but it seemed very stupid and repetitive, more a thing of transgression for the transgression than else. Guys attract me, all right, but I don’t have the fixed idea of doing something in particular.
 
For example, I like some porn videos  at the beginning, and especially if the guys are beautiful, but then seem to me really stupid, I mean false, if things had gone on with a guy like I see in some porn, making love would be a very stupid thing. So I have talked about this with my friends, with those who are also gay, obviously, but they don’t see it like me and they find themselves in  the porn. I, if I have to think of something that involves me as I would, I would also like to play with my boyfriend, I would like an atmosphere not only sexual, I would like to feel good together, let's say, not just sex and, for example once with a guy that I liked we were at the beach, that is, in practice we were alone in the cabin all day naked, then we even masturbated, he said he was straight and I didn’t tell him anything about me, but it was nice that there was no embarrassment at all, that is, I was with him as if he were not there, but he was there.
 
I don’t know how to say but it was nice that my friend did not mind being naked in front of me or even masturbating, we also had a lot of fun, we laughed a lot of time. I don’t know if this is sex, but it was beautiful, I want something like that. I almost don’t even care if he's gay or straight, that guy said he was straight but I had a great time anyway.
 
I have been also with guys I found in a site, in practice only for sex but I didn’t do anything, when we saw each other they were rough and  had a single fixed idea, I sent them immediately to hell ... and they wanted to have an intercourse without a condom!
 
When I have erotic dreams in practice my model is what we did in the cabin on the beach, this way I feel at ease. Friends tell me that I’m still too young (16) and that I have to grow up to learn to understand certain things but I think I will not change at all.
 
Then there is something that excites me to the maximum and it is when I go to the beach with some school friends who are not gay, there are showers without divisions, in practice we take a shower all together, that for me is a beautiful thing that involves me too much, I make a huge effort to avoid erection but self-control works well, but then the memory of certain situations remains in my brain and I masturbate a lot of times thinking of that, but not thinking of doing stuff with those guys but just of being together in the locker room all naked, it's beautiful and I like it a lot.
 
Do you think I still have to grow up to think about things that others think? But such things don’t really involve me. For me the maximum is being naked together and play a bit. In the showers, I always behave like an idiot and they let me do because they think that I’m straight, therefore we can also have a fun between us “all straight guys” we can experience a bit of freedom, and I take advantage of that but I play just behaving as a stupid but it's not a sexual thing it's just that I enjoy it because I'm fine naked with my naked friends.
 
A fantasy that I have in mind is to go to a nudist beach, just to see the naked guys without the thing that you have to do necessarily something sexual, I'd like to see them because a naked guy is nice to see even if he is straight. I don’t know if only gay guys go to the nudist beaches but I don’t believe so and then for me, just to see and no more, gay or straight does all the same. I never went to a nudist beach because I'm a little scared, even though I look older than I’m.
 
Project, but has all this something to do with gays or are just my own things that maybe are out of the gay field? But I'm gay, I have no problems with my being gay, or at least I think so.
 
Project answers 
 
In fact, collective nudity is a subject of which we speak very little but that for gay guys it is a very strong interest and also a cause for anxiety. In general, the question is underestimated precisely because the problem of collective nudity is a typical gay problem. In Italy, showers and changing rooms are divided by gender, precisely because, assuming that the whole population is heterosexual, separating the environments by gender, it is possible to prevent sexual involvement in the locker rooms.
 
The premise that everyone is hetero, however, is wrong and, while for the straight guys, locker rooms and showers remain an environment substantially neutral from the sexual point of view, for gay guys the same environments are at the same time particularly stimulating and even sometimes strongly anxiogenic because it is true that you can see your friends naked but it is equally true that you too have to be naked in front of them and for a gay guy being naked together with other naked guys can cause problems of erection and considerable embarrassment.
 
Many gay guys practice sports in a systematic way and now they are so used to the locker rooms and showers that it doesn’t create them any problem but doesn’t even create any sexual stimulation. Everything depends on education and acquired habits. The habit takes away the sexual halo to situations of collective nudity. You may be embarrassed by the possible feelings of inferiority that you can feel, both for the size of the penis and for the general physical state, but with the habit these things are also minimized. It’s obvious that those who attend sports environments can find a lot of really beautiful guys, but the first rule is to accept oneself for what one is. It is obvious that being 20 years old, or 40 or 60, are things very different, just as being athletic and toned by physical constitution or having the belly, having flaccid muscles and losing hair. In short, one is what he is.
 
The same goes for the nudist beaches too. In Italy the word “nudist” is enough to evoke scenes of an erotic tale, but, let's understand each other, in many countries, particularly in northern Europe, nudism is practiced at the family level and no one gets surprised because there is a different culture of nakedness.
 
Alessandro answers
 
 Project, this time I don’t agree with what you write! I have been practicing sport in the gym more or less all my life and even before I started doing sport I used to go to the locker rooms because I used to accompany my older brother to the gym for his training! I don’t hide that I'm really fed up with this sentence "shame in the locker room = gay". When I was I little boy, when we caught someone in the locker room who was ashamed or who took a shower at home or even worse taking a shower wearing briefs (well there are those who do it!) automatically he was teased with nicknames that we can imagine, but over time these guys proved to be 100% heterosexual. It is absolutely not true that the topic "locker room" is a purely homosexual topic! It is a false myth!
 
The same goes for the erection story! Who said erection in the locker room is something only for gays? It's never happened to me, and yet I'm gay!! But I have seen guys and even people over 40 engaged or married in a "not really relaxed" state! But nobody has ever made problems! Growing up we understand that they are quite normal things, that in a male environment are not even noticed! If we talk about locker rooms for boys aged 14-17, well, there are real "little contests" for those who are more gifted!! And I assure you it's not a strangeness!
 
When I was on the team and I used to  talk with friends from other teams, we told each other lots of stories and jokes about our performances and the thing was also recurring, because you understand that it was like an added value in short, it was something that involved our male reputation .. I think that gay guys who go into  paranoia thinking of entering locker rooms or of taking a shower with other guys or similar things do it because they think that everyone is there to look at them as if they had the cameras pointed at them and it is perhaps this that amplifies fears and pushes (gay) guys to be afraid of things that doesn't exist at all!!
 
Roadbike answers
 
Exactly, and I can testify it, being a naturist / nudist. The discomfort of the nude is a taboo only here in Italy, while in other countries collective nudity is normal, both in sports and in family environments, as Project has rightly written. Unfortunately, the Italian mentality on the nude is very archaic, showing oneself is still seen as something forbidden or inherent in sex, and it is a wrong and distorted image. According to this mentality the nude is to be forbidden or to be restricted only to certain appropriate environments. It also depends on the family environment in which a boy grows, of course if parents or other relatives instill in children an extreme sense of modesty and shame, and insist on the fact that it is "sin" to be naked or simply to see the nakedness of others, with the growing up the boy in question will have problems in showing himself naked in the locker rooms or in other places. The first thing that prevents someone from undressing is the usual problem of the comparison of bodies and genitals with other boys, but if a guy over time acquires an open mind on the nude, also gaining confidence in himself, certainly will not have the problem of how others can see him. We are born with physical characteristics transmitted by our parents, and I see no reason (unlike ignorant and stupid people), to make fun of  boys if they are lean or obese or do not have adequate physical shape. Being naturist always made me feel comfortable in the collective nudity simply because naturists / nudists saw the nude as an expression of a person's soul, and not as a way of showing off the physical "faults" boys should be ashamed of, hiding themselves with clothes for fear of being criticized, mocked and judged.
 
Giorgino answers
 
I have been doing sport for over 20 years, I have been a soldier, I’m a nudist convinced. Having said this, I must say that I have seen hundreds of naked males aged between 14 and 70 years old. When we were in the locker room just me and a friend of mine, he was walking happily "in joy" without problems, and it happened to me too, I don’t deny it.
 
It's not the locker rooms that make you feel the sense and the pleasure of the nude, considering that if you get an erection you're forced to think about the most horrible things in the world to send it down.
 
The pleasure of naturism and naked living is precisely the freedom of the body. Which doesn’t mean sex or sexuality but only freedom. We are all like one another, we are made in the same way and if you cannot find yourself at ease doing naturism ... well ... I consider it a problem. I believe that the pleasure of naturism and being naked is reflected on the well-being of the body and the knowledge of one's own body. Me and my partner's brother (who is straight but knows everything) usually take a bath together talking and drinking our beers. It is beautiful, loose and extremely natural behavior. And, probably, you will not believe it, but we started doing so when he knew I was gay. So, enjoy the freedom of your body without problems and you will be quieter in the mind, in the body and towards society.

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  MY FATHER GAY
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:29 AM - Forum: True gay stories - No Replies

Hello Project,

I write for a very special reason that from several days now there’s a thing that causes me profound disturbance. I am a 19 years old guy and no doubt I’m straight, the problem is not about me but about my father. I state that I respect my father very much, he is a father really as it should. He and my mother got married because I was about to be born. When I was born my father was 22 years old and now he’s 41. I no longer have my mother since I was 11 years old and basically live alone with my father that takes care of everything. I have a real dialogue with him, when I had problems (including sexual ones) I resorted to him and he has always helped me. My girlfriend loves him because he has always made sure that she would feel comfortable in our home like in her own.

I go to the fact: from about six months my father has a little changed habits, before he never used to go out, now in practice he goes out every evening. “Out” means he’s out two or three hours. The first few times I did not mind, then I began to wonder: where is he going? But there were other strange things, sometimes his cell phone rang and he entered his room to answer and spoke softly and he never does so when speaking with people I know or even with relatives.

I had the curiosity to spy on him, but I never did because I would be ashamed to do such a thing. I began to think about what could induce my father to that behavior, the first thing was that he could see a woman, but I have never seen my father do compliment a woman and I do not even remember the relationship he had with my mother. For mom and for the mom’s things he has always had the greatest respect, as for me, but an intelligent respect, without fetishes of any kind. After all, if he intended to marry again no one could prevent him and for me it would not be shocking, that would be pleasing to him, and for this I would accept it and he knows it. So I discarded the idea of a woman.

There was a fact that has alarmed me. About a month ago my father introduced me to a colleague of his aged 35. In practice, it was completely random, Dad and I were walking around and we met this guy. Dad stopped and introduced me to his colleague, however, I had the distinct impression that my father was embarrassed and he stayed to talk with his colleague a few seconds too long, and in a way a bit embarrassed. That’s where I took the flash. Of course I didn’t even mention it, but even after I felt the embarrassment of Dad. In the days after he has calmed down but I kept thinking about that thing and the more I was thinking the more the idea that Dad and his colleague were not just colleagues was becoming clear. I do not know what they can be for each other, but are not just colleagues. I want to clarify that I do not feel upset to think that my father might be gay or to think that he and his colleague can be a couple (it could also be), what I do not like is that my father is forced to pretend with me because maybe he is afraid to tell me the truth.

I read in the forum many stories about the coming out of the guys to their parents, but never the other way and I think that if it’s embarrassing for a guy it might be even more so for a father who has to confess to his son that he’s gay. I have not sought evidence that my father is gay, I’m not going to search into his computer because he has never done so with mine, but I do not know what to do, that is, whether to tell him that I understood or to go on waiting for him to take the decision. I do everything for my father to feel at ease with me but I think on this specific point he will never feel comfortable.

I have read on the forum about gay married, so the situation that my father probably lives is not something so exceptional. I talk about it as if I had the certainty that things are indeed so, in fact I’m not sure, but the intuition takes me there. Project, from what I understand you are much older than my father, and perhaps such things have already happened to you and you could tell me what to do, because I love my father and the fact that it can be gay does not constitute any problem for me, I just want him to be happy and to feel free with me because I am proud that he is my father! I wait your response. If you want, you can post this message.

I am attaching my contact [omissis]

G.R.
___________


Tommy: 
I was very fond of reading this letter. The boy proves to be very intelligent and to want a lot of good to his dad, I think he should talk to his father; he should calmly confront the subject with him so as to put an end to his father's embarrassment.

Bakuman: 
I think you should leave your father the time to face the thing alone and with serenity. It's not just a problem of how you can accept it, you must also think that maybe he’s discovering only now a sexuality that he has repressed for years and that maybe the "partner" is ready for a stable relationship while your father is not yet ready, or instead he is ready but doesn’t want to ruin the balance that has been established with you for many years. Declaring one's own homosexuality in certain situations is really complicated and this to be honest is the most complicated situation I've heard so far! Leave him time and pretend nothing, if then a lot of time passes, then you can also do some small allusion to a possible relationship of his, so stay on the vague, or better go immediately to tell him!  I'm curious to know how this story ends! Of course I'm joking! Really my best wishes to both of you and congratulations for the maturity and intelligence you demonstrate, it would be nice if people were all like you!

Jek70:
It is not easy to declare one's own homosexuality in a heterosexist society. It's a wonderful thing that for you it's not a problem accepting a gay person, but for many unfortunately it is not so and for a homosexual person, who perhaps realizes his nature almost in old age, this can really be a leap in the dark, like feeling the collapse of the world on. Homophobia can also paradoxically be nested in the same homosexual individual because he is conditioned since childhood to think with "hetero" mental schemes. If you ask directly to your father it could also deny everything. Instead, slowly try to make him understand that for you gay people are very normal people of which you have the highest esteem and respect exactly the same you have of straight people. If you like, you can invent that you also have a gay friend with whom you get along very well and that you do not see anything strange if two men decide to live together for an emotional bond. It could certainly help him to feel that the person he most certainly cares about is so mentally open. Create a peaceful environment where being gay is normal. I wish that everything will be resolved soon in the best way, for you and your dad. 

Ferro: 
Your father is lucky to have a son like you, he when you were born, he was perhaps still too young to fully understand his sexuality. Right now he’s living a beautiful and tremendous situation at the same time, you by the way let him talk, maybe making it indirectly, let him understand that you care about his happiness. You will see that he will open with you when he will be ready, you meanwhile try to prepare because in general it is not easy to accept the "female partner" of your father and accepting his “male partner” can be much more complicated. The fact that you have come on the internet and you did some research on the subject denotes in you a great intelligence and sensitivity. Don’t change! Because in the end, your father's situation is normal and beautiful.

Marcolino: 
this is really a family, you must be proud of yourself, simply you and your father should be proud of your relationship. Don’t be afraid to talk to him, stay on his side, in the end it doesn’t matter that he has to tell you something, know that in the affection the differences cancel no matter if you have to get a clarification. Or gay or straight he is your father and as you say we must always respect ourselves, and I imagine that your father loves you more than anything in the world, my friend. Talk to him and I'm sure everything will end with a smile and a hug between father and son. Your father must be proud of you and I'm sure it's so because you're a sensitive, sweet and intelligent boy, you've demonstrated and still demonstrate every day that intelligence has no sex. Good guy! I wish I had a brother like you, my friend, be happy! 
Marcolino

Max
To make such an emotional and sexual change in one's life is already difficult in itself, and if one then navigates the perilous sea of the 40s, the enterprise is even more difficult. I agree with Jek70 on the need to give your father, progressively and in general terms, continuous manifestations of that mental openness and sensitivity that transpires from your email. The time and affection between you two could do the rest, if you have prepared the ground properly. Your father is really lucky to have such a sympathetic and caring son beside him. Good luck.

Max Heath: 
First of all I have to congratulate you, you really show that you understand your father. In my opinion you don’t have to talk about it openly right away, because your father could close himself more, but you should talk about the matter slowly, maybe before of homosexuality in general. Afterwards, if things go well, it will be him to open up with you, when and how he wants it. Act but wait, said someone. 
Heath.

Mikhol: 
Hi "G.R.", I'm Michael, father of two children aged 13 and 15 and I'm gay. Precisely in this period I’m experiencing the opposite problem: it is I who am thinking about how to face my "coming out" towards my boys. From what you write it is clear that you have an excellent relationship with your father. And I would say that he really educated you with respect and understanding. Believe me, you don’t have to worry about trying to talk to him. Certainly you are no longer a child and you are able to find the best way to "hook" the topic. In my opinion, if he understands that you don’t judge him and that this choice doesn’t affect your relationship, you will see a person who is reborn, as if you had taken away a boulder from his heart. Repressing oneself and one's natural inclinations is always a mental and sentimental sterilization that never brings good fruit, it is like to deprive ourselves of that experience that unites all human beings: to love another human creature. The point is that every person should be free to give themselves to another person in the search for the mutual love that we all desire. And if your father has glimpsed this opportunity he’s likely to be living with a great dilemma: persevere in his role of father without telling you anything, trying to live in secret, or face the speech with the fear of losing his son, something that could never be forgiven. I can tell you that it's frustrating to live like this. It is tiring and exhausting. Don’t be afraid, break the ice, maybe on the occasion of something that brings to light the topic and express your common sense: your dad has raised you with love and spirit of sacrifice. Now you can do something for him: meet him. We cheer for you. Hello!

Nebium: 
I think it is always difficult to give advice, because reading your email I didn’t understand if your father had married just because your mother was pregnant or because anyway she wanted a child. It is a legitimate desire, which also homosexuals have and that cannot be achieved except in the classic way, at least here in our country. It could also be that your father is simply bisexual, and then both the marriage and your intuitions would be explained. But beyond everything he seems a smart person, since he has grown you very well and loves you. He's also lucky (or maybe he was just good at his role) because you look very smart too. I understand you and your discomfort, but to dispel any doubt the only way is to clear up. Of course I'm not suggesting you do it in a traumatic way, indeed, if you have the impression that he doesn’t want to address the subject you have to respect his will, but clarify could make him understand that you love him and that his sexual orientation is something secondary in the relationship between you two. Rather, I would suggest addressing the subject facing it gradually and at the beginning only from a distance, perhaps with the complicity of your girlfriend (who in turn loves him, but by the way: did you tell her something about? What are her opinions on this?), starting from a similar story of hypothetical colleagues or friends of friends, or commenting on a book, a movie, to continue the conversation at another time, with the serenity and calm that your intimacy allows you. In my opinion it can only do good for both of you, I think it is disheartening at 40 to have to "hide" like a teenager from your son, and surely your approval (in the sense of reconfirmation of your affection) would allow him to feel more serene. I wish you two never lose the depth of the bond that unites you.

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  ST. PIUS V AND HOMOSEXUALS
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:09 AM - Forum: Homosexuality in history and literature - No Replies

St. Pius V, Antonio Ghisleri (1504-1572) (Michael his name in religion) entered the Dominicans very young, right after having ruled several Dominican convents and churches, according with his request he was appointed inquisitor of Como (a little town in the Northern Italy), then he was called to the Roman Inquisition and became Commissioner-General of the Inquisition, in 1558 he was appointed Grand Inquisitor.

At the time that Ghisleri was Commissioner-General of the Inquisition two Dominicans, Valerio Malverni and Alfonso Urbino, inquisitors of Calabria, took care of the Waldensian communities settled in Calabria, in a mountainous region of the Kingdom of Naples . The interests of the Inquisition and those of the Kingdom of Naples, also the economic ones, where mingled with the repression of heresy pursued with the use of violence.
The Holy Office (i.e. the Roman Inquisition) issued on February 9, 1561 some ordinances intended to regulate the lives of the Waldenses of Calabria, usually called “ultramontani”. Were prohibited meetings of more than six people, the use of their language, the Occitan, the marriage between two of them for the next 25 years, “ultramontane” where only allowed to marry ‘Italians’. The children were to be instructed in the Catholic doctrine, everyone had to hear Mass every morning, to confess and to take communion every holiday. Men were forced to wear the “sambenito” also called yellow “abitello” (a sort of yellow blouse with a red cross of St. Andrew on both the front and back just like the one that was imposed by the Inquisitors to the heretics who had expressed remorse after conviction or in front of the fire. Women were forced to wear a “penaglio” a sort of hat saddle-shaped, considered a sign of penance, that was to be worn also at night and tore the hair of women making them bald. The doors of the houses on the Waldenses (at that time, in that place consisted of a single room) were modified by inserting a peephole, which could only be opened from the outside to allow anyone to check what was happening inside. Ghisleri (St. Pius V) was in correspondence with Melverni and approved his work, it is known that, when he became Pope, he was going to appoint him bishop of any diocese of the Kingdom of Naples, which was not the case for the opposition of Cardinal Santori.
When Malverni and Urbino proposed the Waldensians a choice between apostasy and death, Waldensians went into hiding, and around Guardia Fuscalda, San Sisto dei Valdesi, Montalto, San Vincenzo, Argentina, Vaccarizzo e Piano dei Rossi, was organized a colossal hunting to capture the Waldensians. 2200 men, women and children were slaughtered in a gruesome manner, other 1600 were captured. All this was the work of the Inquisition in defense of the faith, but there are also other considerable things.
Paul IV Carafa (also an Inquisitor as Pope St. Pius V) two months after ascending to the papacy in 1555, with the Bull “Cum Nimis Absurdum” established ghettos for Jews with a number of restrictions and harassments that gave the first impulse the escape of the Jews from the Papal States, it is basically a law clearly discriminatory and anti-Semitic. His successor, Pius IV, tried to mitigate and limit the weight of anti-Semitic policies of Paul IV but St. Pius V Ghisleri in 1566 with the Bull Romanus Pontifex restored the anti-Jewish legislation of Pope Paul IV Carafa, St. Pius V had a high opinion of Pope Paul IV because both came from the ranks of the Inquisition.
The Bull of St. Pius V “Hebraeorum gens” of February 26, 1569 decreed the expulsion of the Jews from the Papal States with the only exception of residents in the ghettos of Rome and Ancona, but beyond the mandatory content the Bull is a true manifesto of anti-Semitism. The Pope criticizes the “perfidious Jews” accusing them of having fallen out of favor of God because of their sins, that’s why they were condemned to continue wandering without a homeland.
Eventually Christian piety, pitying their sad fate, tolerated the presence of the Jews but they, however, with their wickedness and their perfidy have pushed the situation to such an extent that the Pope felt compelled, for the salvation of Christians, to curb the violence of such a disease.
The Pope accuses the Jews of being usurers and to exploit the poor Christians, of being thieves and fences, of being pimps and magicians dedicated to evil satanic tricks that lead to believe them to be able to see the future or to find treasures. The Pope then raises his voice against this scourge that causes enormous damage every day to the Christians, and decrees that all Jews must to go out of the Papal State within three months, after that term, if a Jew will be found still on the papal territory, his property will be confiscated and he will be reduced in a state of perpetual servitude. This is basically a form of racism mixed with religious intolerance.
After having considered this background we are going to analyze the position of St. Pius V against homosexuals. Following are two Constitutions that define the question. The documents use the “pluralis maiestatis” that is the Pope, referring to himself never says “I” but always “We” because of his majesty role.
______________________________
St. Pius V, Constitution “Cum primum” of 1 April 1566.
Rules regarding the observance of divine worship in the churches, and the observance of holidays, and also against simony, blasphemers, sodomites and concubines.
Pius bishop servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting memory
(Debut]
As soon as we received the apostolic office entrusted to us by divine disposition, soon we focused all our attention and all our meditation on the salvation of the Lord’s flock entrusted to our faithfulness and settled, with the help of God, to lead the faithful of Christ so that, abstaining from vices and sins, they will follow the path that leads to eternal life.
[The reason for this decision]
1. After facing the sharpness of our mind to remove all the things that might in any way offend the Divine Majesty, first we decided to amend without delay what may displease God to the maximum degree and could cause his anger, so as the Scriptures teach us giving also very serious examples: certainly the divine worship neglected, the scourge of simony, the crime of blasphemy and abominable vice of lust against nature, it’s just because of such things that peoples and nations are often affected for just revenge of God by calamities of war, famine and pestilence. Even if against those who have confessed so terrible crimes, have been issued by our predecessors many measures, however, since it is a small thing to issue laws if there are not those who make them effective in due course:
[Reaffirmation of the old sanctions against disobedience to this decree]
2. So that does not happen that someone dares to hope impunity by virtue of tolerance, we, knowing that most people are used to keep away from the will to sin much more due to the severity of the penalties that the fear of God, confirm all of the individual judgments the claims and the penalties that have been imposed on those who had committed these crimes and in fact, with our apostolic authority, we renew and in no way diminish their rigor, and warn those who have not been afraid to commit these crimes that they will not only be subject to the penalties as are prescribed by the sacred canons, but also will be subject to those civil laws set according to what the discretion of our decision will establish in relation to the quality of the people.
[Order to perform these provisions]
3. We order that Bishops and Governors in office of the cities and places of our ecclesiastical state, Bishops under pain of removal from ecclesiastical offices and Governors under pain of immediate and automatic excommunication, care to capture those who didn’t worship to God in churches with established rite or had been found guilty of heinous crimes, to condemn them to the established pains. Then the judges themselves must keep in mind that if after this our decree they will be negligent in punishing crimes of this magnitude, first of all they will be punished by the judgment of God and then they will also face our indignation.

11. If someone has committed a heinous crime against nature, because of which the wrath of God came upon the sons of perdition, he will be delivered to the secular court to be punished, and if he is a cleric, he will be deprived of holy orders and will be subject to same penalty.

13. And to enable judges to obtain very easily notice about aforementioned crimes of simony, blasphemy and rape nefarious, we want that they can proceed in every case if they are competent in jurisdiction or by reason of the type of crime or of the people, not only for prosecution and inquisition but also as a result of a simple secret complaint , in order to create among those men space for the prevention.
14. However, we warn each and every of you, so that keeping before your eyes only the fear of God and not driven by other bad affections of the soul, you will accuse only the guilty man and never the innocent one. Therefore, if it is discovered that someone accused another so libelous, we will and command that he must be subject to the rule of retaliation.
________
St. Pius V, Constitution “Horrendum illud scelus” of August 30, 1568.
Against any clergy, both secular and regular, guilty of the heinous crime.
Pius bishop servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting memory
[Debut]
The horrible crime that soiled and contaminated the cities to the point that they were scorched by the terrible judgment of God with fierce pain assails us and severely disrupts our heart so that we concentrate all our efforts to suppress it as much as possible.
[Statements of the Lateran Council]
1. It is certainly well known the decree of the Lateran Council, according to which all clerics who were surprised involved in incontinence which is against nature and for which the wrath of God came upon the sons of perdition, must be expelled from the clergy or be forced into monasteries to do penance.
[The cause of this new decision]
2. But, in order to stop the contagion of such a disaster avoiding it to strengthen becoming more and more brazen in the hope of impunity which is the strongest incentive to sin, we have determined that clerics guilty of this heinous crime should be punished so heavy that they who are not scared by the death of the soul will remain terrified by the avenging sword of secular civil laws.
[Imposition of the death penalty]
3. So we want now pursue more comprehensively and strongly what at the very beginning of our pontificate we decreed upon these things, that’s why with the authority of this canon, we deprive of any clerical privilege and any office, dignity or ecclesiastical benefit each and every priest or other secular cleric of any degree of dignity who put into practice such a heinous wickedness, so that degraded by an ecclesiastical judge, he will be immediately delivered to the secular justice, to undergo the same punishment that is established for the laymen by the legitimate legal rules.
________________

St. Pius V, with the criteria of a modern international criminal court, could be accused of serious human rights violations and also of crimes against mankind, but he is still often cited as a moral teacher and a typical restorer of ecclesiastical costumes of the Counter-Reformation. His condemnation of homosexuality is considered an example of the doctrine of the Church, and I think that, unfortunately, it is the case. I want to emphasize that this is St. Pius V, a man raised to the honors of the altars and presented as an example to the churchgoers.

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  SAINT PETER DAMIAN AND HOMOSEXUALITY
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 10:04 AM - Forum: Homosexuality in history and literature - No Replies

Those who today wonder about positions of the Catholic Church about homosexuality, reading what follows, can understand how deep are the roots of the incompatibility between Church and homosexuality.

St. Peter Damian, a character in many respects not without his merits, one of the most popular contemplative saints of hermitical life, was in fact a man of action very well integrated in the political context of his time, was born in 1007.

When he was just prior of the Fonte Avellana monastery, he attended the imperial coronation of Henry III in Rome and entered into good relations with the environment of the court. Subsequent contacts were numerous and cordial: he spent several years in Germany, the empress Agnes was his penitent and he tried to hold back Henry IV from divorcing Berta.

Dante places him in the seventh heaven, that of Saturn, among the contemplative spirits, in the twenty-first canto of the Paradise and describes him outraged by the ecclesiastical corruption.

The first concern of Peter Damian was the reform of the Church and in this context he wrote, around the second half of 1049, the Liber Gomorrhianus dedicated to homosexuality, in particular that spread among the clergy. Peter Damian condemns radically, for example, the practice, common among the clergy of his time, of having carnal contact with each other and then to absolve each other and also the practice of havimg carnal contacts between confessor and penitent.

I invite anyone who wants to have a serious idea of the relationships between homosexuality and Church in the Middle Ages (relationships that have not changed in substance) to read a thesis (in Italian) in History of Philosophy, discussed September 24, 1996, at the Faculty of Letters and Philosophy based in Arezzo, University of Siena, entitled “Liber Gomorrhianus by Peter Damian: homosexuality and Church in the Middle Ages”, published in “Philosophia Medii Aevi” Site dedicated to the study of the history of medieval philosophy and culture, with the sponsorship of the Department of Classical Philology and Philosophical Sciences of the University of Salento http://www.phmae.it/ . I reproduce below, without comment, some passages of the Liber Gomorrhianus by Peter Damian, that I translated into English.

The text is taken from the page http://www.phmae.it/IZ/traduzioneLG_a.htm

II

Different sodomitic behaviors

Four types of this shameful behavior can be distinguished in an effort to reveal all the problem in an orderly fashion.
Some are stained by themselves, others mingle together touching each other with their hands the virile members, other fornicate between her thighs, and finally, others [fornicate] behind. Among these there is a gradual progression so that the last is considered more severe than those that precede. Therefore is imposed, to those who sin with others, a penance greater than that expected for those who are stained by themselves with the contact of the semen emitted, and those that contaminate from behind are judged more severely than those who join between the thighs. So the crafty machinations of the devil produced these degrees of debauchery so that, the further the wretched soul continues among these, the lower is thrown into the deep pit of hell.
[… Omitted …]
inspiring from the council of Ancyra.

XIV

About those who sin irrationally, i. e. who have joined with the beasts and defiled with males

Those who have lived or are living irrationally:
those who have committed this sin before their twentieth year, after fifteen years of penance, deserve to enter the community of prayer, only after five years of residence in this community they will receive the sacrament of penance. In addition, during the time of repentance the quality of their lives has to be examined and so they shall obtain mercy. If they continue to commit these sins insatiably, they need a longer time to do penance. Those who instead have fallen into this sin and have passed the age of twenty years and are married, after twenty-five years of penance, are welcomed into the community of prayer and remain there for five years, and only then will receive the Eucharist. Finally, if those who have sinned are married and exceed fifty years of age, they will receive the grace of the Eucharist at the end of their lives.
[… Omitted …]
But because we care to provide two examples taken from a single sacred council, we insert also what the great Basil thinks of this vice we’re talking about, so that “every issue is decided on the word of two or three witnesses.” He says:

XVI

Clerics or monks that molest males

“A cleric or a monk molesting adolescents or young people, or those who have been caught kissing or following another shameful attitude, must be publicly whipped and they lose his tonsure. After being shaved, they must be covered with spit and chained with iron chains, and must be left to rot in the anguish of prison for six months. In the evening, for three days a week they have to eat barley bread. Then, after another six months, in the custody of a spiritual father, living segregated in a small courtyard they can be occupied with manual work and prayer. They must be subjected to fasting and prayer, and must walk always in the custody of two spiritual brothers, without any perverse sentence, and must always be separated from younger people.”
[… Omitted …]

XVII

The due condemnation of this abominable infamy

This habit certainly is not comparable to any other vice because it exceeds in severity all the other vices. In fact, this vice is the death of the body and the ruin of soul. It contaminates the meat, turns off the light of the mind. Banish the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human breast, opens the door to the devil instigator of lust, leads us into error, uproots the truth from the mind that has been deceived. It prepares traps for those entering and those who have fallen into the pit and obstructs it to prevent escape. It opens the hell and closes the gates of heaven. It makes the citizen of the heavenly Jerusalem a heir to the infernal Babylon. It transforms a star of the sky in a stubble of eternal fire. It tears the body of the Church and throws it into the fire of terrible hell. This vice seeks to break down the walls of the supreme kingdom and is anxious to repair the walls of the reborn burned Sodom. This vice destroys sobriety, stifles modesty, massacres chastity, slaughters with the sword of terrible epidemic the unrecoverable virginity. It disfigures everything, scrubs everything, defiles everything. Nothing that surrounds it remains pure, away from the filth, clean. “All is pure to the pure persons, instead, nothing is pure to those who are defiled and unbelieving”[Paul to Timothy 1.15]. This vice removes from the Church community and relegates to pray with the insane people and those who work for the devil, separates the soul from God to link it with the demons. This terrible queen of the Sodomites creates followers of his tyrannical laws, filthy in front of the men and hateful to God. It orders to start nefarious wars against God and forces the militant to carry the burden of bad soul. It removes from the communion of angels and imprisons the unhappy soul under the yoke of its domain through its power. It strips its soldiers of virtuous weapons and exposes them to the darts of the vices so that they are pierced. It humiliates in the Church and condemns in the law. It defiles in secret and dishonors in public. It gnaws conscience like a worm, it burns the flesh like fire. It craves that the desire is satiated and, on the contrary, is concerned that it could be seen, that it could go out in public and could be disclosed in front of people.
[… Omitted …]
The miserable flesh burns to the fury of lust, the silly mind trembles because of the rancor of suspicion, in the breast of the wretched man the infernal chaos is already lifting. How many are those pierced by the pricks of unclean thoughts, so many are those tormented by torture of the penalty. Souls are really unhappy after this poisonous snake has bitten them. It immediately removes the ability to think, clears the memory, obscures the sharpness of the mind, causes the sinner to forget God and himself. This pest, really undoes the feeling of faith, weakens the power of hope, clears the bond of charity, removes justice, reduces the courage, removes temperance, and blunts the keenness of prudence.
What else can we say? Since it casts from human heart every single element of virtue and lets all sorts of vices, as if the bolts of the doors had been torn. Certainly, the judgment of Jeremiah adapts to what, from the point of view of the world, is called Jerusalem “the adversary has spread out his hand – he says – over all your treasures, has seen the pagans entering into her sanctuary, those to which you ordered not to enter into your assembly.” Without a doubt, this terrible beast eats in one bite with its bloody mouth, keeps away anyone, with his chains, from good works, it drops you precipitously down the cliffs of obscene perversity. Soon, of course, anyone who has fallen into this abyss of perdition will be sent far away, like an exile from the supreme homeland. He will be separated from the body of Christ, will be removed by the whole Church, will be condemned by the judgment of all the Holy Fathers, on earth he will be despised by men, will be dismissed from the house of the citizens of heaven. For him, the sky will become iron and the earth will become bronze, and he will never recover from there, burdened by the weight of the crime, nor can hide here for a long time its evils in the cave of ignorance. Here he can’t enjoy as long as he lives, nor hope until he sins, because he is forced to endure the scorn of the human derision in addition to the torment of eternal damnation. It is clear that refers to this soul the prophetic voice of lamentation where it says: “See, Lord, how terrible is my anguish, my bowels are upset, my heart is in trouble within me because I was rebellious. Out sword kills in the house is like death.”
____________

I must point out that the language of Peter Damian is one of the most chaste and less explicit. Peter Damian uses “interrogationes confessarii” of Burchard of Worms, a guide to confession to the confessor, in which with a lot of details, he exemplifies to the confessor the questions to submit to the sinners in confession. Peter Damian summarizes this interview in his classification of four types of homosexual sin but omits many important details useful for the understanding of the text. In this regard, the thesis I mentioned compares the corresponding passages of Burchard and Peter Damian to highlight the difference in language.

Burchard“You just did fornication with yourself […], I mean that you have taken in your hand your own male member and so you retracted your foreskin and you moved it with your own hand”  (Fecisti solum tecum fornicationem […], ita dico ut ipse tuum virile membrum in manum tuam acciperes et sic duceres praeputium tuum, et manu propria commoveres […])
Peter Damian“[…] those who contaminate themselves with the contagion of semen expelled” ([…] qui per semetipsos egesta seminis contagione sordescunt […])

Burchard“Did you fornication […], I mean that you’ve got in your hand the penis of another man, and the other took yours in his hand, and so in turn with your hands you have moved the penises.” (Fecisti fornicationem […], ita dico ut tu in manum tuam veretrum alterius acciperes, et alter tuum in suam, et sic alternatim veretra manibus vestris commoveretis […])
Peter Damian“[…] Others pollute handling each other’s manhood.” ([…] alii sibi invicem inter se manibus virilia contrectantes inquinantur […])

Burchard“If with another male between the thighs […] I mean that you put your male member between the thighs of another man, and so by moving you poured the semen [..]” (Si cum masculo intra coxas […], ita dico, ut tuum virile membrum intra coxas alterius mitteres, et sic agitando semen effunderes […])
Peter Damian“[…] those who have intercourse between the thighs” ([…] qui inter femora coeunt)

Burchard“Did you fornication as did the Sodomites, so that, behind a male and in parts of the rear you entered your rod and so you had a sexual intercourse with him like Sodomites?” (Fecisti fornicationem sicut Sodomitae fecerunt, ita ut in masculi terga et in posteriora virgam tuam immitteres, et sic secum coires more Sodomitico?)
Peter Damian“[…] those who corrupt others in the backs” ([…] qui alios in posteriora corrumpunt)
_________

Burchard (about 965 – 1025), bishop of Worms, was one of the greatest canonists of the Middle Ages, out of the monastic school of Lobbes. With a modern mind, or better with a mentality that takes due account of the respect of people, we have to point out the violence inherent in the practice of confession conducted in the manner recommended by Burchard which is already an anticipation of the Inquisition.
I point out one more thing. The detailed list of convicted sexual behaviors doesn’t make any mention of oral sex, as if it did not exist or was not absolutely practiced. This thing baffles me.

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  FROM OPENLY GAY TO HIDDEN GAY
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 09:58 AM - Forum: Coming out - No Replies

Hello Project,

My name is D. I am 36 years old, I’m an openly gay or rather I should say a former openly gay, not former gay but former openly. Basically I came out at age 16. My parents reacted badly but then they somehow accepted my being gay and on the other hand they had no choice. I have had fewer problems with friends than with family but the most part my friends (or former friends) put me into oblivion, and among those who have put me into oblivion there’s one, let’s call Steven, who is also gay and I can take that for granted, but about Steven I will tell you later.

At age 16 I was already a spirit very independent and also rebellious, in the sense that I would never have done what others wanted me to do, or rather I liked to do only what I decided. Up to 22-23 years but also up to 24, that is when I started working, I had to avoid the excesses, I made my convenience, but since I did not have any money there were limits.

From the age of 24 I started to attend the gay scene, what you call “gay labeled” environments . This made me fell a lot of freedom, I felt liberated, I had money in my pocket and I did pick up, I came to bring guys in a hotel room and it did not happen once. The fear of diseases slowed me a little but let’s say that between 24 and 34 y. o. I’ve done all sorts, a bit for inertia and a bit following the current. By then the gay environment was well known to me, they called me and involved me and I accepted their proposals very happy.

At age 34, being reprimanded as gay, being identified as part of an environment and in practice having to feel more “gay” than “D.” began to bother me, I did not like that my gay friends called me and even fewer that insisted when I had said no, among other things I had been with so many guys, but I had never been in love, not only that, but I began to do discourses that I would ‘t have done a year before, I did count how much money I had spent over ten years of that life, and it was really a huge amount of money, nevertheless I felt frustrated and dissatisfied, I was alone, I had had many adventures, but I had nothing left.

I decided to do a two years master’s degree to get a little up at work, which was never something that had interested me before, and there I met Steven. Obviously he knew everything about me, that is he knew I was gay and openly gay, I did not know anything about him, for me he could also have wife and children. The first few days he kept me at a distance, not wanting to be seen with me, I invited him to have coffee during breaks but he preferred not to come. The way he used to tell me “no” irritated me a lot and after a while I didn’t invite him anymore.

Once, he came to classes in the morning with the subway but there was a strike and he could not come back home, I had the car and I took him home. While in route I told him that I was disappointed that he was keeping me at a distance because I was gay because maybe a straight man can not realize the meaning of being gay and can think who knows what. He replied that he did not want to be seen with me because they would have stuck the gay label on him. I told him that I could understand, and he said that, there are also many gays who don’t like “the gay label”. The answer sounded a little strange but the discussion was over, then we talked about work and the master.

Over the months, the relationship with Steven became more easy, it took him six months to tell me that he was gay and he told me a little of his story. He was still alone, he fell in love twice but always with straight guys, but had saved a little money and had bought a small apartment even though he had left the mortgage to pay. I told him about me and my stories and then he asked me if I felt satisfied and I told him the truth, not only that I did not feel satisfied at all but that I could not stand anymore staying in a gay environment. He replied: “And then what are you waiting for? Go anywhere else!”

I’ll make it short. I’m not in love with Steven and I think he is not in love with me, among other things he’s really obsessed by the idea of AIDS and he’s right, now we’re dating for a year and a half, always in secret because he doesn’t want to be seen with me. He got with me a serious result because I quit smoking and I felt better and I also stopped drinking alcohol, not that it was a vice, but in fact it could become so. I’m fine with Steven and I think he’s okay with me.

Between us there has never been physical contact and I don’t know if there will ever be, but when he is there it’s a kind of serenity background that I never felt before. Last week, I told him that I feel uncomfortable being an openly gay (I restarted this issue) and we got the idea that we should change jobs and go to live in another city.

We did some calculations. It was possible to deal with the change of working with a financial sacrifice, and it was also possible to buy a small apartment. But Steven did not agree, and repeated that each of us had to have his own “little hole” because if things did not go as planned, there could be obligations of an economic nature to make us stay together out of necessity. The economic problems were enormous and we knew it. In concrete terms, it was possible to realize our projects in two or three years, not before. I did not want to ask money from my parents, and he had the mortgage to pay.

In a weekend we went to another city where there is a large branch of our company where we could move. It is a very large office, with nearly 40 employees. If and when (because I do not know if it will happen) we will move, I think (I already decided) I will not tell anyone about my being gay. I don’t know if it makes sense or not changing city in order to stay close to a friend that I’m not in love with (at least it’s what I think now), but I need quiet and with him I’m fine. I do not know if there will be anything between us but in fact I do not even consider it too much important. In practice, Steven is the only person who has really taken me seriously, I feel his attention. After all we are the two of us to be alone, it is paradoxical but true.

The idea of starting a new life attracts me a lot, I just want to change the environment. It is the relationship with Steven that makes me change my life, but even before I’d had enough of my gay life. But without Steven I’d probably be in the same situation as before but on the contrary now I’m looking with him to give concrete expression to the changing project and he is willing to sell his apartment and get one in another city to follow me, which seems to me more serious than any declarations of love (Project, I’m getting old!).

It may seem strange, but it is as if the sex does not matter to me anymore, before it was an obsession, now I think that I could do without it, but I don’t think I could do without Steven. At the beginning I used to think that hidden gays were “guys with no balls” (an expression that I read in your forum) but now I think that if I had used more my brain and less my balls (excuse the vulgarity ) now I could feel better. I read on your forum all the discussions about the coming out and frankly I am of those who have considered it fundamental for years but in the end I changed my mind, I almost flipped my way of thinking, if first I thought that a hidden gay guy was “without balls” now I think that a guy openly gay could not have really made his choice but that somehow has been guided by the circumstances, then, once done, the coming out becomes obviously a reason of pride.

I must add one thing though, that I was not only an openly gay guy but was fully integrated into the world labeled gay and that’s why I cannot be aware of the condition of the openly gay guys who don’t attend the gay environment and I think that it’s probably a very different situation compared to mine. Project, I do not subscribe to the forum in order to avoid to be dragged, but if you want you can publish this email. This is just my point of view, does not express general theorems, but maybe it can serve a useful purpose.

Bye.

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  GAY GUYS, HOMOPHOBIA AND DATING SITES
Posted by: gayprojectforum - 09-04-2017, 09:54 AM - Forum: Gay discomfort - No Replies

This post will highlight the consequences on gay people of the social non-integration of homosexuality and of the widespread environmental homophobia in terms of loss of the affective dimension of sexuality, of increasing transgressive meaning of sexuality and of spread of AIDS risk.

In front of many suicides of gay teens  around the world who came to the headlines of the newspapers (many are deliberately hidden because of a choice of families), in front of those who lost their lives because of homophobic hatred, in the front of the frequent and marked incitement to discrimination and hatred operated by religious circles, people who have a sense of morality cannot remain indifferent. The homophobic and discriminatory attitudes receive daily incredible legitimations. Fortunately, in many states the civilization of the law is an obstacle to homophobic hatred and a boost to the integration of homosexuals, but it is undeniable that even in the twenty-first century, even in countries where homosexuality is not considered a crime, and even where the rights have been extended to gay marriage and adoption policies, there is, however, at the social level, a form of silent but powerful discrimination that acts on gay people from an early age and accustoms them to the exclusion, as if the exclusion was their inevitable destiny.

What are the consequences of all this?

When a teenager realizes that his affection and sexuality are deeply and often violently discriminated by both the family and the social environment, many reactions are possible: the tendency to self-repression and depression, the attitudes of rebellion and challenge to the family and society. In any case, beyond the external reactions, a search activity for discussion and dialogue is set in motion that cannot find a serious answer either in families or in schools or in the religious, social or recreational activities. And it is precisely at this point that are involved other tools available today that have changed the prospects of gay guys from ten years now, I talk about the internet and what guys can find on the internet, not only in terms of comparison and dialog but also the terms of easy sexual offer, that is, dating sites and video-chats.

There are sites on the net dedicated to an extremely serious information and comparison among gay people but it must be said that these sites are a little minority among services offered by the web and the audience of these sites is definitely very little. The vast majority of sites labeled gay consists of pornography, dating sites and video-chats.
Whatever for a straight guy belongs to a normal emotional and sexual life, that may be experienced under the eyes of everyone, including family, like falling in love, exchanging tenderness with his partner, speaking openly about his feelings, for a gay guy is on the contrary either impossible or extremely complicated. A gay guy has serious difficulties in declaring his love to another guy, he cannot talk to friends or family and if he gets to have a guy, with very few exceptions, keeps him far away from the family.

If a gay guy is not allowed to be realized in his family and social environment, inevitably tends to achieve his realization through different ways, and here the easy way is also the most dangerous, I’m talking about dating sites and sex chats.

The huge number of users of the erotic chats and dating sites should make us reflect. These sites are the answer, and often the only answer, even if dysfunctional, to the real affective and sexual needs that can neither be ignored nor suppressed. If for a guy it becomes impossible to live a normal sexual and emotional life openly, with the knowledge and acceptance of family and society, it is inevitable that the guy looks elsewhere for the realization of his expectations, which are anyway the normal expectations of any guy but that appear deviant and pathological because are related to another guy instead to a girl. Trying to curb and suppress a real need and prevent its development according to the normal channels automatically means encourage the development of alternative channels through which the need could find an answer. It happens a bit as in the “prohibition”: banning the use of alcohol in the common places of sale and consumption means promoting other distribution channels.

DATING SITES

The dating sites have been created to provide easy sex encounters to users, this applies to heterosexual and is even more true for gays: “if in everyday life it is almost impossible to find a gay guy, or better, to choose one, taking for granted that he is also sexually available without any complications, the dating site solves the problem for you”, you can see the profiles of the guys, more or less explicit photos that they have entered, you can upload your photos on the site and above all, in practice, you are sure to find many and quick answers from which to choose your ideal partner. A gay man is led to believe that nothing is possible in everyday life instead everything becomes real through the dating site. In practice, the dating site is seen as the unique and irreplaceable tool for the creation not only of a sexual contact but for the realization of all emotional life. The dating site looks like the response to a deep emotional need that does not find any answers elsewhere and is loaded, because of this, with a lot of fundamental affective expectations.

The dating sites are becoming, year after year, accepted as “normal” in the life of a gay guy and this is due precisely to the social rejection of homosexuality just because the “prohibition” facilitates the creation of alternative channels to live however the emotional and sexual life.

APPROACH PHASE

Before registering on a dating site a guy lives contributing moments of uncertainty and fluctuation between the temptation and the resizing of the emotional expectations. In front of people who have strong concerns over the use of these sites, classical answers are indicative: “You are biased!” “I know that many clever guys have registered.” “But they are not all mad for sex.” “I have nothing against these sites but I didn’t register and I think I will not,” In general, a sentence like this last comes shortly before the registration.

NARCISSISM

When a guy walks into a dating site he is usually very favorably impressed by the fact that he can find a lot young people in the site, many of which are also in his area and then are actually contactable. To publish your photos on a dating site, especially if it is a site for gays, involves a certain risk of being labeled, but this risk is easily put aside due to a narcissistic impulse. In general gay guys, even if they are objectively very beautiful, are convinced that they didn’t find a boyfriend because they are physically not up to the task, the dating site offers an answer to these guys. The publication of personal photos followed by a rain of contacts, is something that rewards appropriately the narcissistic dimension: “If there are so many guys who are looking for me I am not so bad!”

SEXUAL PROMISCUITY

Usually when a guy gets a lot of contacts on a dating site, he is brought to consider them as he considered an affective request received in ordinary life. The high number of contacts received induces to overlook the fact that guys who have left us their contact did exactly the same with many other guys and that contacts are just in order to get easy sexual exchanges without commitment. The most serious risk of the dating sites is the HIV risk, i.e. the risk of being infected with the AIDS virus but there is a risk of sexual transmission for many serious diseases such as viral hepatitis, herpes virus and the human papilloma virus. Sexual promiscuity is the first risk factor in sexually transmitted diseases. It’s amazing how guys who have about other topics, a highly efficient rationality end up putting everything aside coming to talk about “risk acceptance” or to underestimate the risk based on the assumption that the condom is a sufficient guarantee. Often the level of superficiality is such that they are content with general statements of the other in relation to his health: “He said that he’s fine and that he gets tested for HIV every six months.” I note in passing that a guy who frequents dating sites and gets tested for HIV every six months is probably concerned that he’s likely to be HIV positive. As a result of the decrease in anti-AIDS campaigns it is also common to see the underestimation of AIDS itself and the belief that “now it is a disease that can be overcome with the right treatment.”

DEPRESSIVE PHASE AND DEPENDENCE

After the first sexual encounters, the guys begin to notice that their first partners disappear and that no loving relationship can be created. All this is sometimes seen as an “experiment” waiting finally for the guy with whom you can build a real relationship, and sometimes and more frequently as an inescapable reality that proves that it’s impossible for a gay man to build long-term relationship with another man as a couple. Month after month, the feeling that it is just a sexual game that distracts from the necessary commitments such as study and work prevails, and this feeling triggers a mechanism of addiction, quite similar to the one that creates the drug dependency, i. e. alternating phases in which guys intend to unsubscribe from the dating sites and delete all the contacts of the people they had met in that environment and phases in which the depressive response to the emptiness, due to the abandonment of dating sites, quickly takes over and leads back to the sites to look for new contacts. Generally, we can say that addiction has already been established when the intention to abandon the site is not followed by the actual deletion of the contacts.

CONSOLIDATION OF DEPENDENCE

When the dependency is consolidated over the years, you end up accepting it as irreversible and to assume that “it had to go this way.” In reality, these guys, now grown men, were deprived of their emotions and they threw it away themselves to look for a simple solution to their problems. In this way, homosexuality, which in itself is a way of loving, becomes a degraded exercise of sexuality without emotions and inevitably leads to a sense of deep solitude, which doesn’t depend at all on being gay, because there are many gay guys who realized their dreams, but depends on having spent many years in a sort of true addiction. The drug dependency does not bring happiness but only the momentary illusion of being happy at the cost of becoming dependent; in the same way dating sites do not fulfill and cannot fulfill at all the dreams of love of a gay guy because they have been created for another purpose and also lead to addictions. The responsibility of this belongs to the guys who are looking for a chance to be themselves in a hostile world? Belongs to those who take advantage of the naivety and the problems of others in order to obtain an economic profit managing dating sites? Or belongs to those who allow all this fueling homophobia and the marginalization of gay guys and in fact helping, with their discriminatory self-righteousness, the growth of dating sites and the expansion of sexually transmitted diseases, which are inevitably associated with these new social uses? To you the answer.

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