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I FELL IN LOVE WITH A REA...
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TWO-FACED GAY GUYS
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GAY SEXUAL ATTRACTION
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THE CHARM OF A MAN
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| MYTH AND REALITY OF GAY COUPLE |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-03-2017, 03:59 PM - Forum: Gay couples
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Hello Project,
I read some of your articles and, at least in part, I found myself there. I am a gay middle-aged, 45 y.o., and I start to decline in everything. Let me know what you think of married (not at legal level) life between two gay men. I go out off a coexistence of six years, it was my second relationship, things have gone this time as the first time. Initial enthusiasm, then daily coexistence and here appear the first crunches, we try not to see, to patch things up, then we realize that we are incompatible from different points of view and at the end we separate, without hatred, a little bitterness if ever, then I come to the conclusion that in the end I’m better alone, not out of desperation or lack of ability, but only because I feel better so.
There are now six months we broke up and it seems to me like everything has just vanished into distant memory, sometimes he tells me about his new boyfriend, I listen as a friend, these things doesn’t even create problems neither forms of jealousy, now I can take care of my things, my hobbies, my friends, I can devote to work in a more committed way, and above all, I can put aside the idea of looking for a guy. It was an idea that has haunted me for years, I considered it as something without which I would have been bad, like was missing a part of myself, then I realized that actually two gay men can be together if and until there is a sexual interest that lasts a few months at most, or they can be together for convenience, which is not a bad thing, they can help each other, are friends and pretend to be in love.
What is love, Project? And what is love between two gay guys? I’ve never seen love, maybe affection, perhaps it’s the same thing, but even that is temporary. Maybe I’m searching for too much. By now I know gay people, know how they behave, I’m used to. Beyond the idea of sexual attraction and that of friendship, in the end, why have we to put even that of love? These are myths that once moved into the brain of a guy affect his entire life. We’d start with the fact a thousand times occurred that sexual attractiveness, comes first, if it comes, then comes some affective interest. When sexual attraction vanishes, if all goes well, we just have a friendship a little bland.
I think it would be better to tell young gay guys that it is essential to have real friends and then, if it happens also the possibility of having a boyfriend, ok, but without building castles in the air, just starting by accepting that things that are going to happen are not to last forever. These things (and often are little things) seem to have an enormous importance because are mixed with a little sex, but then when you look in the mirror you see that you are just the same, however, the only things that remain are those on which we didn’t build castles in the air. I don’t write these things with bitterness, these things seem obvious, even if took me 25 years to understand!
Nicolas
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| GAY TEST |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-03-2017, 12:41 PM - Forum: Announcements and Services
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After a long process of reworking yesterday, October 4, 2012, Gay Project has opened a new site
dedicated exclusively to three separate services:
1) Online Interviews on gay sexuality
2) Test of sexual orientation
3) Statistics on gay sexuality
The service is available both in Italian and in English (the entire site has been translated and published in English version, it is not a web-translation but a site originally in English).
The interface is in Italian;
The interface is in English:
The archive is unified.
As for the interviews, on the same DB are then stored interviews both in Italian and in English. These interviews can be easily selected through the search function.
The DB of tests of sexual orientation is encoded. Each card is compiled in Italian or in English, is encoded and can be read (decoded) in both Italian and English, regardless of the language in which it was compiled.
The service has been greatly improved, there is now the option to see the preview of the analysis in order to change the answers before final posting, and have also been improved techniques for avoiding repeated posting.
The test has been created with very serious scientific criteria explained in the methodology page, shown in the page that contains the response processed by the system.
Below you can read an example of test with its response card.
ANALYSIS OF THE TEST
Form n. 702
1) Question: My age
Answer: 23
2) Question: My marital status
Answer: I’m single
3) Question: Sons
Answer: No children
4) Question: Family pressures
Answer: My family expects me to be straight
5) Question: Social expectations
Answer: The social context in which I live has virtually no weight on emotional/sexual choices
6) Question: Why are you doing this test?
Answer: I do the test because I have some doubts about my sexual orientation
7) Question: Anxiety and sexual orientation
Answer: At the beginning I lived with anxiety the issues related to my sexual orientation but It doesn’t happen anymore
8) Question: Have you done before other tests concerning sexual orientation?
Answer: I’ve done other tests on sexual orientation and I was not satisfied in the sense that I was not given any definite answer
9) Question: Have you read books or specific articles on sexology or sexual psychology?
Answer: I’d like to read specific books or articles on sexology or sexual psychology but I really don’t have time
10) Question: Have you ever consulted a psychologist for reasons related to sexuality?
Answer: I have never consulted a psychologist for reasons related to sexuality
11) Question: Have you ever consulted a psychologist for reasons other than sexuality?
Answer: I have never consulted a psychologist for reasons other than sexuality
12) Question: How do you perceive your sexual orientation
Answer: At the beginning I also had a straight period but now I feel much gay
13) Question: Openly/Hidden
Answer: I’m gay but I act straight with my family
14) Question: How other consider you in relation to the sexual orientation
Answer: I think my sexual orientation doesn’t interest anyone
15) Question: Affective orientation perceived
Answer: At first I fell in love with girls but now I tend to fall in love just with guys
16) Question: Couple’s sexuality
Answer: I’ve only had sex with guys
17) Question: My ideal couple’s sexuality
Answer: The ideal for me would be a stable couple declared only to family and close friends
18) Question: My possible project of couple’s sexuality
Answer: I think for me it is possible to achieve a stable couple declared only to family and close friends
19) Question: Orientation of masturbation
Answer: At the beginning I masturbated with straight fantasies but now I only do it with gay fantasies
20) Question: Variability of masturbatory fantasies
Answer: My masturbatory fantasies are highly variable
21) Question: Use of pornography
Answer: The gay pornography for me is a kind of obsession, practically all my time on the internet is dedicated to gay porn sites and I cannot help it
22) Question: Why I use pornography
Answer: Concrete occasions of sexual involvement in every’s life are few and pornography helps to live at least a virtual sexuality
23) Question: How often do you masturbate using pornography?
Answer: I never masturbate using pornography
24) Question: Have you ever gone on a pay porn site?
Answer: I’ve never been on a pay porn site
25) Question: How many porn sites do you visit regularly?
Answer: Usually I visit from 6 to 10 porn sites
26) Question: Sexual interest polarization
Answer: My sexual fantasies focus on a single person who has strong emotional meaning for me
27) Question: Frequency of masturbation and emotional state
Answer: The frequency of my masturbation is practically constant
28) Question: What I think about masturbation
Answer: I consider masturbation something completely natural
29) Question: Masturbation and affection
Answer: I consider masturbation and emotions are closely linked and when you fall in love you live in a different way
30) Question: How do I consider sexuality lived as a couple
Answer: I think that the couple’s sexuality is a manner to express love
31) Question: Attraction to the nakedness
Answer: I watched the nakedness of other unaware guys
32) Question: Causing sexually embarrassing situations
Answer: I’ve never done in a way that neither boys nor girls find themselves in sexually embarrassing situations
33) Question: Reactions in situations of collective non-sexual nakedness (locker rooms)
Answer: I’m comfortable in situations of collective non-sexual nakedness (locker rooms), I’m used to and I’m not any more effect
34) Question: Heavy sex jokes made in group to other guys (e.g. forced stripping)
Answer: I never happened to be present at a heavy sex joke made in group to another guy (e.g. forced stripping)
35) Question: Do you talk about your sexuality with your friends?
Answer: With my friends I try to avoid the subject and I don’t say to be gay but not even to be straight
36) Question: Do you go to sex chats?
Answer: I never go to sex chats
37) Question: Do you go to dating sites?
Answer: I never go to dating sites
38) Question: Have you ever been in a place openly gay?
Answer: I’ve never been in a place openly gay
39) Question: Straight falling in love and masturbation
Answer: I’ve never been in love with a girl
40) Question: Gay falling in love and masturbation
Answer: When I fall in love with a guy I masturbate thinking quietly about him
41) Question: Falling in love, sex chat and dating sites
Answer: When I fall in love I don’t go to sex chats and dating sites
42) Question: Falling in love and pornography
Answer: When I fall in love easily go on watching porn sites to masturbate
43) Question: Your first memories of episodes that had some sexual coloring for you
Answer: The first memories I have of episodes that had some sexual coloring, for me, are not pretty
44) Question: The first episodes of your life that had some sexual coloring
Answer: The first episodes of my life that had had some sexual coloring concerned guys older than me
45) Question: The first episodes of your life that had any sexual coloring
Answer: The first episodes of my life that had any sexual coloring were homosexual
46) Question: At what age did you discover masturbation?
Answer: 9
47) Question: How did you discover masturbation?
Answer: I discovered masturbation alone
48) Question: How did you react to the discovery of masturbation?
Answer: After the discovery of masturbation I had no problem and I lived very quietly from the beginning
49) Question: The fantasies of your first masturbations
Answer: The fantasies of my first masturbations were straight
50) Question: Whom were your first masturbations dedicated to?
Answer: My first masturbations were always dedicated to guys I had met in real life
51) Question: After the discovery of masturbation did you talk anyone?
Answer: After the discovery of masturbation I did not talk about to anyone
52) Question: At what age did you have your first contact with pornography?
Answer: 16
53) Question: How did you come to pornography?
Answer: I have come to pornography just out of spontaneous curiosity
54) Question: How did you react to the discovery of pornography?
Answer: After the discovery of pornography I had no problem at all and I used it very quietly from the beginning
55) Question: Have you ever told anyone that you were using pornography?
Answer: I told my parents that I was using pornography
56) Question: At what age did you first had sexual contact with another person?
Answer: 22
57) Question: Who was the person with whom you had the first sexual contact?
Answer: The person with whom I had my first sexual contact was a guy older than me
58) Question: How did you get to have the first sexual contact with another person?
Answer: I got to have my first sexual contact in a situation that was to me a strong sexual interest
59) Question: Your first sexual contacts were completely episodic or were repeated?
Answer: My first sexual contacts for a while have become a habit
60) Question: Satisfaction of your first sexual contact
Answer: I really liked my first sexual contact
61) Question: Evolution of masturbatory sexuality
Answer: My masturbatory fantasies tend to become progressively more gay
62) Question: How did you meet your current partner or your last partner?
Answer: I met my current partner (or my last partner) randomly through the internet
63) Question: How many guys have you had sexual contact with during your life?
Answer: 2
64) Question: How many girls have you had sexual contact with during your life?
Answer: 0
65) Question: On average, how long endured your straight relationships? Indicate an average in months
Answer: 0
66) Question: On average, how long endured your gay relationships? Indicate an average in months
Answer: 3
67) Question: How did you behave when you weren’t engaged?
Answer: When I wasn’t engaged I tried to find a guy
_______________________
BASIC ANALYSIS OF THE FORM
The first analysis of the form above tends to evaluate the sexual orientation that comes out from the complex of the test. Some answers are neutral, i.e. don’t allow any deduction covering sexual orientation, others are more or less significant. The program first evaluates the significance of the answers in terms of identification of sexual orientation and distinguish answers on the basis of the reference context. In the form under analysis have been identified 21 significant responses in terms of sexual orientation, of which 12 relating to sexuality, 5 relating to affectivity and 3concerning the social dimension.
The system then determines the “gay individual number” which is a measure of the general significance in the gay sense of the answers. This “gay individual number” can be compared to the “maximum gay number” that is, with the greatest measure of gay trend coming from questions to which the user gave a significant response (not neutral). The “maximum gay number” is variable and depends on the greater or lesser presence of neutral feedback. What is really significant is the percentage of “maximum gay number” totalized by the user, we call it “general gay index”, if the general gay index is equal to 100%, the user answered as a 100% gay person, if the percentage is equal to 0%, the user, answered as a 100% straight.
1) gay general index (IGG) = 89.71
The following table assists in the classification of the sexual orientation in relation to the IGG. As in any schematization of complex phenomena, should not be forgotten that the definitions have a relative value, albeit tentatively useful.
IGG <15 => strictly hetero
15<=IGG<35 => bisexual hetero-dominated
35<=IGG<=65 => bisexual strict sense
65<IGG<=85 => bisexual gay-dominated
85<IGG => strictly gay
The sexual orientation emerging from the form under examination can be considered strictly gay.
The IGG is an average index constructed from several indicators. If the values of individual indicators are close to each other that is are poorly dispersed, the various aspects analyzed lead more or less to the same conclusions and the standard deviation is low, if the individual indicators are widely dispersed compared to each other they lead, individually, to different conclusions and even conflicting. To understand this better we can consider for instance an IGG=50 (perfectly bisexual) that comes from 4 indicators: A1=50, A2=50, A3=50, A4=50 in this case all the considered indicators lead to the same value 50 exactly consistent with the IGG. But we can have IGG=50 (perfectly bisexual) that comes from very different situations, for instance, A1=0 (perfectly straight), A2=0 (perfectly straight), A3=100 (perfectly gay), A4=100 (perfectly gay). The 4 parameters are extremely dispersed the standard deviation is maximum and the IGG has non real meaning. The standard deviation is a typical dispersion index and at psychological level is an index of discomfort. In our case, the standard deviation is generally:
2) standars deviation (SQMG) = 26.34
The following table assists in evaluating the effectiveness of the responses used in the calculation of the IGG. We have to take into account that in a distribution with values from 0 to 100, the SQM maximum is equal to 50.
SQM<15 => strictly consistent
15<=SQM<25 => consistent
25<=SQM<=35 => fairly consistent
35<SQM<=45 => inconsistent
45<SQM => discordant
In the present case it can be concluded that the indicators of sexual orientation expressed in the test result fairly consistent.
An overall representation of the responses to test indicative of sexual orientation can be seen in the following histogram. each column is marked with a number indicating the question to which refers the individual assessment. A hetero orientation to 100% is characterized by bands all zero (percentage gay = 0). A 100% gay orientation is characterized by bands almost all extended up to 100%, not exactly all, why certain questions still leave a margin of uncertainty. In numeric column on the left you can see the percentage of gay orientation emerging from each answer. The red numbers indicate that the corresponding answers are relevant to sexuality, the numbers in blue indicate that the answers are relevant to emotion, the numbers in black indicate that the answers are relevant to socializing.
The band 12, orange color, indicates the perceived sexual orientation
The band 15, blue color, indicates the perceived affective orientation
The band 16, green color, if present, indicates the couple’s sexuality
The band 19, red color, indicates l’ the orientation of masturnation
The red vertical line indicates the IGG.
Of more immediate intuitive meaning is the following diagram, which graphically represents the average distribution of the individual indices derived from each significant question in a gay scale graduated from 0 (point “E” totally hetero) to 100 (point “G” totally gay ). The abscissa of the vertex of the curve represents the IGG, the more the curve is sharp the smaller is the value of the SQM. It should be noted that high values of SQM produce curves very flat and therefore not very significant in terms of identifying sexual orientation. Very sharp curves i.e. with small SQM are very significant in terms of identifying sexual orientation.
To make always possible to the graphical representation, when the SQM is <1, is automatically reset to 1.
![[Image: gra2.png?w=700&h=449&zoom=2]](https://gayproject2.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gra2.png?w=700&h=449&zoom=2)
The one above is the “graphic of sexual orientation in general.” It is a graphical representation using “two-parameters”, certainly interesting, but it is not the best graphical representation of sexual orientation. A more detailed description can be obtained in the manner reported onmetodology. As a first step, the questionnaire is divided into three distinct sections (sexual, emotional, social), is determined for each section the mean and the standard deviation, in order to obtain three distinct normal distribution curves, one for each component (sexual, emotional, social). Here below is presented the “graphic of sexual orientation, affective component” similar to the above but constructed considering only the indicators related to the affective life. Even in this case have been employed two parameters (mean value and standard deviation) which we will call respectively Gay Affective Index (IGA) and Standard Deviation Affective (SQMA). The values of these indices show how on average affectivity is oriented and how they are consistent values that lead to the media. In the case in analysis we have:
3) Gay Affective Index (IGA) = 96.00
4) Affective standard deviation (SQMA) = 8.00
Below is presented the “graphic of sexual orientation, sexual component” similar to the above but built only in reference to the indicators related to sexual life. Even in this case have been used two indexes (mean value and standard deviation) which we will call Gay Sexual Index (IGS) and Standard Deviation Sexual (SQMS). The values of these indices show how on average is oriented sexuality and how they are consistent values that lead to the media. In the case in analysis we have:
5) Gay Sexual Index (IGS) = 88.33
6) Sexual standard deviation (SQMS) = 27.34
The same can be repeated for the social component. In the case in analysis we have:
7) Gay Social Index (IGs) = 87.50
8) Social standard deviation (SQMs) = 39.66
Because of graphical needs the graphic distribution curves have been normalized over the interval [0, 1] then all the areas included under the curves are equivalent to the unit and the scale in the ordinate is a percentage of the maximum, even if the maximum is indicated in each graph in the top left, given the difference in scale in the ordinate between the three graphs, it is not easy to perform a visual comparison. The following chart shows the three previous graphs in the same scale, i.e. as a percentage of the maximum of the maximums of the four functions, making possible thy way to make a direct comparison. The curve black color represents the distribution of sexual orientation overall, the one blue color is related to affectivity, the one orange color is related to sexuality and the one green color to socializing.
![[Image: gra6.png?w=700&h=452&zoom=2]](https://gayproject2.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gra6.png?w=700&h=452&zoom=2)
For the interpretation of this graph is good to keep in mind that because the gay general index is strongly related to sexuality between the curve of sexual orientation in general and that related to sexuality, usually, there is not a big difference, instead occasionally it happens that the affective curve differs substantially from the general one, this could be due to a separation trend between affectivity and sexuality. Differences even more evident can be observed between the general curve and the one related to socializing. To allow a quantitative comparison we introduce the variable DS-A = IGS – IGA.
7) DS-A = -7.67
If the index is positive physical sexuality is geared more strongly towards gay than affectivity. In general, a significant difference between affection and sexuality and a DS-A of absolute value greater than 15 is a sign of discomfort.
To make an overall evaluation, you have below a summary table showing the scoreboards already seen that we report here for convenience.
INDEX MEAN(IG) DISPERSION(SQM)
GENERAL IGG = 89.71 SQMG = 26.34
AFFECRIVE IGA = 96.00 SQMA = 8.00
SEXUAL IGS = 88.33 SQMS = 27.34
SOCIALE IGs = 87.50 SQMs = 39.66
IGG <15 => strictly hetero
15<=IGG<35 => bisexual hetero-dominated
35<=IGG<=65 => bisexual strict sense
65<IGG<=85 => bisexual gay-dominated
85<IGG => strictly gay
15<=SQM<25 => consistent
25<=SQM<=35 => fairly consistent
35<SQM<=45 => inconsistent
45<SQM => discordant
DS-A < -15 => inconsistent
-15 <=DS-A < -5 => fairly consistent
-5 <=DS-A <= 5 => strictly consistent
5<DS-A <= 15 =>fairly consistent
15 <DS-A => inconsistent
In the present case, by applying the above criteria it results as follows:
Overall assessment strictly gay. General indicators are fairly consistent.
Sexuality strictly gay. Sexual indicators are fairly consistent.
Affectivity strictly gay. The affective indicators are strictly consistent.
Sociality strictly gay. The indicators of socialization are strictly consistent.
Assessments of affectivity and sexuality fairly consistent.
Determined as above average parameters and also determined the standard deviations of the three components (affective, sexual and social), we can draw a graph of sexual orientation that takes into account the three components, that is, the so-called “additive” graph, a linear combination of the three previous graphs with standard coefficients 0.6 for sexuality, 0.3 for affectivity and 0.1 for socializing. The coefficients are assumed to a first approximation equal to 0.6, 0.3 and 0.1, values chosen on the basis of measurements made on a large sample of questionnaires. The coefficients 0.6, 0.3 and 0.1 are called average coefficients that is, those that best adapt to the average situation of the population. The individual perception of the sexual orientation can also be “different” from the average and may be represented, at a later stage, changing the weight of the components (sexual, affective and social) of the sexual orientation in relation to the assessment of actual sexual, affective or social discomfort. For the moment confine ourselves to the representation of sexual orientation using the average coefficients. The sexual component of the general sexual orientation is represented red color, the one related to affectivity blue color and the one related to sociality in yellow color (green). X-axis we have the gay sexual orientation in % and in ordinate the density of probability.
![[Image: gra7.png?w=700&h=451&zoom=2]](https://gayproject2.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gra7.png?w=700&h=451&zoom=2)
Particular attention must be devoted to the interpretation of the “additive diagram ” above in cases where the affective polarization, i.e. the area of maximum densification of the blue component of the diagram, is significantly distant from the zone of polarization of sexual zone (red). It is a situational of significant discomfort. In these cases the maximum of the curve may depart significantly from the IGG and may also appear a second maximum in the curve. The appearance of a second peak in the additive diagram indicates the separation between sexuality and affectivity.
To the question “How do you perceive your sexual orientation?”; you answered “At the beginning I also had a straight period but now I feel much gay” to this answer is attributed a gay index of 80, from the test results an IGG equal to 89.71 . Your perception of your sexual orientation can be considerd very precise.
At this point the first part of the analysis of the test is ended. The second part, which still has not been implemented and is currently in preparation, will start from the results of the first part and will examine the hardships already assessed in relation to the sexual orientation and the individual conditions of social life.
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| GAY REALITY AND DAILY LIFE |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-03-2017, 11:44 AM - Forum: Gay orientation
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This post will point out the concept of daily gay reality that often, if neglected, can lead to discomfort and dissatisfaction.
The life of each of us is a "unit" extremely complex and varied where multiple factors of a rational, emotional and sexual origin interact. The interactions are not always aware and are often not easy to understand. However, it remains as a basic postulate that the "well-being" is a category that covers all the entire life of a person. In this sense, talking about sexual or emotional well-being, is to lose sight of the unity of the person. This speech may sound very abstract, but from this, it comes, as a corollary, that any attempt to separate one element from others and consider them singularly produces by itself forms of discomfort. The interaction between the components of rational, emotional and sexual life depends largely on the relationships, that is, on the set of contacts and relations that the individual is able to establish and their performance, and in this sense we are deeply social animals.
Homosexuality is not a characteristic of sexuality but of the person. Any attempt to see homosexuality as purely sexual produces discomfort. To live well, homosexuality, as any form of sexuality, requires a strong affective component and a healthy dose of rationality. The affective component gives to sexuality its relational value, that is helps to consider it as a part of a relationship and even values it, that is gives it a specific value in order to improve couple’s partnership.
In sexuality, the typical effects of the lack of affective-relational component materialize to see homosexuality as a pure individual pleasure-seeking where the contact with the partner is only instrumental and the need to identify with standard patterns of behaviors is particularly strong. In these cases, sexuality has an essentially individual significance, even when it occurs in the life of the couple, and the imitative attitude is pleading the lack of sexual fantasy.
The typical effects of the lack of rational component, for a gay guy, are to continue to foster a love towards a straight guy despite knowing that he is a straight guy or towards a gay guy basically uninterested. In these cases, in the absence of a real rational control, falling in love is seen as an absolute individual value even if it is completely irrational, a value that must be grown even if in fact its relational implications will not be realized. Due to the lack of proper rational control returns however the idea of sexuality as a strictly individual dimension.
These concepts apply not only to the couple’s sexuality, these concepts apply also to masturbation that is not originally a search for an individual pleasure but is instead an attempt to build an interpersonal relationship, even if only projective. I used the adverb originally to refer to masturbation before the introduction of pornography, that is when masturbation always had a sentimental value because the masturbatory fantasies were projected on real people to whom was addressed also the love interest. In that situation (affective masturbation) the masturbation was really a way to live projective interpersonal relationships.
Today, however, very often, emotional masturbation, i.e. the combination of masturbation and affection has given way to the association of masturbation and pornography. Statistics show that about 40% of people masturbation happens on average in 90% of cases looking at pornography. It is easy to understand how pornography has distorted the original meaning of masturbation. In fact, pornography has taken to masturbation its interpersonal and projective value and turned it into a pure form of individual satisfaction. When pornography, which is impersonal, replaces the presence of true sexual fantasies projected onto another person, sexuality loses much of its meaning.
The masturbation on cam deserves a separate mention. Of course, to practice it with your boyfriend, that is with a guy who loves you beyond sex, gives this type of masturbation an affective valence because it is actually a real couple’s sex. To practice it instead with strangers, with whom there is no relationship except during masturbation on cam, just means considering the other person as a substitute of pornography, perhaps more challenging. In this case there is no emotional or communicative dimension at all.
Sexuality is a fundamental but also "ordinary" dimension of the life, it should have its daily life, that should be integrated in the individual’s life as one of many aspects and should not be marginalized or seen as transgression. Sexuality should have a size of tenderness rather than of escape from the daily life. Undoubtedly because of the fact that sexuality is still seen as a way to break the taboo of the forbidden, sexuality itself continues to remain in a shaded area, and talking about seriously remains a very difficult thing and prejudice and intolerance spread.
For a gay guy it’s certainly difficult to imagine living sexuality under ideal conditions. The limitations are a lot also for straight people, but for gay people the situation is particularly heavy. Before expecting that things will change starting from higher level, that is, at the legislative level, you should try to change them starting from your level, encouraging the growth of a new generation of gay people, more self-aware and therefore less substantially conditioned.
The key is the socialization, if the environment is a favorable environment. In this sense, it is essential to realize that beyond being gay many other aspects are important, it is essential to cultivate true friendships, to create a diffuse network that fosters relationships and widens communication. The friendship between gay guys has a value similar to that of the Internet, because it makes a group of people something other than an amount of separated individualities. Overcome solipsism is essential at all levels.
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| MAYBE I AM NOT GAY |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 05:40 PM - Forum: Understand to be gay
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I receive the following email, which I public adding also my answer.
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Hello Project,
my name is [omissis] and I’m writing to tell you about a few things that happened in a quite transitional period of my life.I’m warning you right now that these are rather personal considerations that should be taken with the proper detachment and lucidity because probably they are not very common. I begin by telling you that I’m 24 years old and around 15 I started to think about being gay. I was a boy rather lonely and insecure, full of fears and phobias that prevented me from living so carefree as everyone else.
The answer to all these discomforts seemed to be only one, homosexuality, a feature with which I tried to justify my diversity and, at the same time, to meet needs that I could not satisfy in any other way. With the awareness of being gay, having a huge need to give and receive affection, I have been for years looking for a human contact. From the beginning I realized that the majority of gays were different from me, both for the sex-centrism and some effeminacy of their features, so through sex-chats and dating-sites I was moving in search of another guy, gay in a different way.
What is really amazing is that with perseverance and intuition I really met people like that, but in live meetings almost always something was missing. Although I often felt psychologically satisfied by acquaintances and friendships (what in my normal living environment had not happened yet) nevertheless a real transport always was always missing to allow me to physically love another man.
I arrived to do something anyway, but I never felt really satisfied and was always looking for excuses about it, I would blame the circumstances of the moment, or it was something about my partner that did not convinced me, or even I thought I might have some sexual physical problems, but the reality was probably quite different. Over the years, I felt that something important was not working because I had not a physical response such as to justify a certain kind of inclination, and so, while in the life of every day I was gaining more and more security overcoming many of my problems, in the same time emotionally and sexually I continued to have huge doubts.
Only recently I’m increasingly realizing that, most likely, the search for another man was nothing more than a desperate attempt to get me to be accepted by someone else in a period already perceived as problematic as adolescence. It’s hard to admit these things, and it is even harder to have understood that I was moving in the wrong direction until a short time ago, but I have identified a number of issues that led me on a path rather than another.
Let me be clear, I do not regret anything in my past, I did what I felt to do so and I am convinced that there are no boundaries so clear in terms of sexual orientation, but I’m realizing that putting apart my old doubts I’m not as gay as I had taken for granted. The thing is obviously destabilizing and it is not easy now to make the final step towards this new awareness.
I have some good friends to whom I confided something before and even now and no one but them knows about me nevertheless no one of them would think that I have had pseudo gay experiences, perhaps gay feelings, yes, but never gay real sexual experiences. Among other things, usually girls fall in love with me and, even if I never had sex with girls, I admit that in this period, beyond my wondering why and how so many things happened, I start to feel a certain interest toward girls that somehow attract me and at the same time scare me …
I do not know why I tell you all this, I realize that it’s also quite difficult to condense years of life and feelings in a few lines, to tell the truth I fear it is difficult to understand my story trough a single email, but I feel the need to express my experience and maybe hear your opinion. If you decide to publish this email please omit my name. I wish you a Merry Christmas, a greeting and thanks for reading.
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Dear [omissis],
I begin by thanking you for wanting to contribute to the discussion of issues concerning homosexuality with your own personal testimony. I will try to answer on the basis of the experience gained in Gay Project.
First of all you’re certainly not the only one to feel moments of sexual disorientation. Based on what you say there are two fundamentally different interpretative hypotheses. Let’s start with the first.
You could not really be gay and your pseudo-gay orientation may have been caused by the need to identify a specific and well defined reason for many uncomfortable situations that maybe had nothing to do with being gay. You used to consider yourself as a quite different gay guy because your life was not polarized around sex and because you are not effeminate (note that the equation “effeminate=gay” is wrong in almost all cases). You searched among gays for someone like you and you have not found, this led you to think that maybe you were not really gay, also because in a homosexual intercourse you always felt a substantial dissatisfaction.
This is a possible hypothesis, of course, but to support this hypothesis, we would need more evidence. If next to your search for another guy like you in a gay chat room, feeling a sense of sexual dissatisfaction, I don’t say you tried to woo a girl, but you just masturbated thinking about a girl and in this case with a real sexual satisfaction, well in this case the hypothesis would have been more concrete.
Sexual orientation is demonstrated not through the couple’s behaviors but through the sexual desires and through the sexual fantasies that accompany masturbation. I should add that the very fact of searching insistently in chat for gay guys who could feel like you, putting aside for years the hypothesis of heterosexuality, suggests that you have not a really straight sexual orientation.
You could tell me that there’s bisexuality, but the true bisexuality in some cases alternates long periods of exclusively gay sexuality with long periods of exclusively heterosexual sexuality or in other cases leads the live together in a satisfactory manner both heterosexual sexuality and gay sexuality, if not in the couple’s relationship at least through masturbation, which is not oriented in a single direction and is rewarding in both directions.
Frankly, reading your e-mail, that anyway offers little evidence to get a concrete idea of the situation, the interpretative hypothesis that came to my mind is another.
I often see gay guys who are looking for easy answers to their emotional needs, denying that they are really true emotional needs and transposing everything in terms of sexuality. In this way, these guys convince themselves that they “must” find as soon as possible the solution to their problem, which is essentially the fact that they do not have a boyfriend to live a sexual experience with, then they start a frantic search for that boyfriend to finally break the ice and try. For them the guy is not a guy to love but a way to solve their own problem.
On this basis, through sex chats so many guys start a series of sexual experiences, almost always unsatisfactory, but in fact they neglect the only thing that matters, i. e. the building of a deep emotional bond. I’m not surprised at all that those who have lived the experience of being gay through a sex chat, at the end, do not feel at all satisfied, but those things have very little to do with homosexuality “as it should be”, that is lived at deep emotional level. I often say that being gay does not mean have sex with a guy but fall in love with a guy.
When we fall in love there is obviously a physical and sexual basis but it is far from exhausting the full meaning of being in love. If gay sexuality is lived with a guy who you love and who loves you, then it has really a deep communicative value because it has a strong affective valence, that is not a way to solve your problems through an experience in which the other, after all, is not the essential element, on the contrary is a way to love, to understand and realize the needs of the other, in respect even of his fears of his timing and of his reluctance.
Maybe it’s true that the your way to see life is not centered on sexuality, nevertheless your mail ends up to focus only on sexuality “as a problem”, the true problem is that misses the essential element, the emotional one, what lacks is the true falling in love, both for a guy or for a girl.
The real world is not that of gay dating sites but that of the real and reciprocal affective relationships that grow over time and it is the experience of the gay “emotional” world that you’re missing, it’s living with a guy a real emotional falling in love. Keeping account of the sexual dissatisfaction you have experienced in your gay intercourses and of the lack of gay deep affective relationships, it is obvious that you are looking for “solving the problem” in the straight field.
But I have to tell you something else, I have spoken often recently with a guy who had lived gay experiences and then ended up returning to exclusive heterosexuality. Well, when that guy was talking about his girlfriend did it with enthusiasm and emotional involvement that left no doubt that, despite the gay experiences, that guy was straight: being straight does not mean having sex with a girl but falling in love with a girl and that guy was really in love.
Of course, in making my second hypothesis, according to which you would primarily be a gay disappointed in his expectations of affective reciprocal involvement, which has known only places where it is extremely unlikely to create personal relationships on a real affective base, and is now escaping towards heterosexuality, I rely primarily on analogies with apparently similar situations I met in Gay Project, but of course I miss the concrete elements in order to understand something more. But I would not take for granted now that you’re discovering your true straight sexuality because it would seem rather that you’re running away from a series of negative experiences in the gay field. If you found a guy who truly loved you and whom you loved, do you think that living with that guy, sharing with him all aspects of life, including sexuality, not only as an experience but as a form of love, would still be unsatisfactory? I think not.
A hug. Happy holidays!
Project
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| I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IF I AM GAY OR BISEX |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 05:36 PM - Forum: Understand to be gay
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I was asked repeatedly to clarify precisely how a guy can identify his own sexual orientation.
I start with an observation. Most of the guys, both straight and gay, don’t have real problems in recognizing their sexual orientation because they are driven or only towards gay contents or only toward straight contents both at affective and sexual level, i. e. they experience both emotionally and sexually or exclusively heterosexual or exclusively gay feelings.
When a guy is deeply emotionally involved exclusively by the presence of girls, wants their presence, not only on at psychological level but also at physical level, feels aroused just thinking about a girl or standing next to a girl, masturbates thinking exclusively to girls, develops sexual fantasies about girls, looks for opportunities to be with them in privacy, or he wants to have satisfactory sex with them, and all these things do not change over time, that guy has no reason to doubt his sexual orientation and justifiably feels completely heterosexual.
When a guy lives similar experiences that do not change over time oriented towards guys he can feel without any doubt exclusively gay.
The problems of sexual orientation arise when those experiences are not uniformly oriented in a direction exclusively gay or exclusively straight or when the guy feels over time an instability in the identification of the object of his sexual interest.
I have spoken several times about the he typical path to come to gay identity by guys who consider themselves heterosexual and who have had heterosexual sex life. In reality, in this case there isn’t any real problem of uncertainty, but there are just difficulties of identification due to the fact that heterosexual behavior can be unconsciously assimilated by imitating the social environment. For a guy who has always identified as straight and also has had sex with the girls, be aware of the gay emerging identity is certainly not easy. Awareness can be late, even after 25, and acceptance can be problematic but the path is irreversible and the deep sexual identity, however, ends up to assert itself. In essence it is not indecision about sexual orientation, due to the fact that those guys, could also have sex with girls. They masturbated thinking of the guys and were gay from the beginning because their free sexuality manifested itself, however, in masturbation. Often, guys who will manifest a definitive gay sexual orientation, in the problematic phase of acceptance of their sexual orientation, use define themselves bisexual, but if their free sexuality that occurs in masturbatory fantasies is exclusively gay, we can talk about bisexuality only improperly.
Much more delicate is the situation of guys whose free sexuality (manifested in masturbation), is not uniquely geared to girls or to guys, or whose sexual orientation does not remain stable over time. In the first case we can speak of intermediate bisexuality, in the second of swinging bisexuality. In these cases, a guy can live in situations of deep distress because an intermediate bisexual does not feel completely at ease neither in a gay nor in a straight environment, and a swinging bisexual (periodical bisexuality) when he perceives the change of his sexual orientation sees the collapse all over the affective world he had built previously. I should note that in general a guy who is aware of his bisexuality has more problems than a gay guy. For a gay guy the acceptance may be difficult but it is not a problem that lasts for a lifetime, the condition of displacement is transient, for a bisexual on the contrary is permanent and constantly lurking. A gay can build stable emotional relationships with another guy, for a bisexual such things thing are more problematic, and the relationship in the long run is still not 100% satisfactory.
The guys who are consciously bisexual, which are not many, but really exist, struggle much more to find other guys with the same sexual orientation to create friendships with them. A bisexual in the reality of everyday life is not easily accepted neither among gay guys nor among the straight ones, but in any case the awareness of bisexuality really helps these guys to get rid of anxiety conditions that might otherwise be heavy conditioning.
Based on experience gained in the chat I see that many young people, in particular young people up to 21/22 y. o., are often faced with a problem: “I’m straight, gay, or bisexual?” And guys try to answer this question with conviction and permanently. The presence of masturbatory fantasies typically gay is not usually sufficient, from their point of view, to give the certainty of sexual orientation, then they try other ways, the most common, and so to say the alleged proof of the pudding is to create concrete opportunities of sexual contact with another guy in order to evaluate their own reactions in front of such situations.
Typically such experiments lead to sexual disappointing that weakens even more the gay identity and creates even greater uncertainty. These sex experiments have anyway a basic flaw, because don’t come from a real affective need toward another guy but only by the desire to put yourself to the test. These sexual experiments, in the case in which are inserted into true emotional relationships (prior friendships or new affective interests characterized by substantial reciprocity and sincerity) are blocked before reaching the realization of any sexual contact because the guy who thought of implement them feels that they may be destructive with respect to the true emotional relationship on which are grafted.
Often, sexual experimentation, identified as the litmus test of being gay, leads guys who live the sexuality in a strictly emotional dimension to true reactions of sexual indifference. Let me explain with a speech typical in these situations: “I had longed to see him but then when it happened I felt completely indifferent, just as if I was straight.” Well, sexuality is not a matter of mechanics. What at masturbation fantasy level seems almost obvious and easy, in the true affective couple sexuality is actually very difficult to achieve. In a previous article about sexual embarrassment I sought to show that sexual contact between two guys in love has nothing mechanical and obvious. Hesitations, uncertainties, the postponement of explicit sexuality are not signs of uncertainty of sexual orientation, show on the contrary emotional involvement which covers the whole of the person.
The most typical characteristic of being gay is not technically sexual, but emotional and can be found in the deep emotional involvement that is created with respect to another guy. When a guy is deeply in love with another guy, anxiety is something usual like forms of strongly emotional waiting, the masturbation is constantly oriented toward that gay and mostly is followed by feelings of guilt. Guys deeply in love sometimes fear they can ruin everything with reckless behavior.
What I want to point out is that it makes no sense to explore deeply sexuality in order to obtain confirmations of your sexual orientation, because the very idea to test is the negation of affective sexuality. Sexual orientation emerges already quite clear from masturbatory fantasies but the guys must be aware that couple sexuality requires a considerable maturation of emotions/sexuality. Sexual orientation, whatever it is, is a manifestation of the innermost self of a person and is irreducible to patterns. Words like gay, straight or bisexual are generalizations and abstractions. What matters is the degree of acceptance of self, not the greater or lesser compliance with one or another abstract model of behavior. We must be very clear on the concept, well known to gay guys: the statistical frequency of a behavior does not define that behavior as normal in comparison to other behaviors statistically less frequent. Trying to be forcibly locked in a definition like heterosexual, gay or bisexual means to force sexuality.
Statistical models must be built on reality and not vice versa. Therefore no anxiety when we almost doubt that our sexuality cannot find a precise definition.
If you come down in detail you would see that there are between heterosexuals and gays so many different ways of conceiving and living sexuality, that you might even doubt that the abstract categories of heterosexual and gay actually have a precise meaning. Let us always remember that anxiety is the first enemy of sexuality and that what matters is real life.
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| ONLY SEVEN DAYS GAY NOVEL 2006 |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 04:25 PM - Forum: Announcements and Services
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Dear friends, Gay Project has already published, in pdf edition, my first short gay novel in English: “Only seven days” It’s about an older man who meets by chance two young guys. It’s a love story, a story about how difficult could be for each one of them to accept what’s happening because everyone needs to get used to be loved. The novel, written in a single week in 2006, needs to be improved because besides the possible (and probable) language errors, it presents a first-person narrative that sometimes slips into the third person. I will be immensely grateful to everyone who can report me any errors or communicate his impressions. I apologize for my bad English, I’m not a native English speaker.
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| MARRIED GAY GUYS AND SUBLIMATION |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 10:16 AM - Forum: Gay orientation
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Hello Project,
I am writing you this email because I had a look at your google site and also at your forum and it seems a serious thing, neither ideological nor to make money. I am in a rather difficult situation and I need to understand what is happening to me.
I'm 31 years old, I could tell you that I've always been straight, because the outside was always so, and I could say that for a long time, I also thought that I was really so, but if I go to look far back in memory, when I was 11 - 12 y. o., I find in practice many things that make me doubt.
As a kid, I was obsessed by the idea of seeing other kids naked, at the beach I tried to spy on them, the boys not the girls, and I still remember very well when a 19 y. o. guy who was playing with us on the shore took off his swimming suit in front of me with the most natural. I would not have forgotten it, at that time I was more or less 14 y. o.. I discovered masturbation this way and alone of course. I tried to do everything to be with that guy who treated me well, but he had a girlfriend and his parents had given him a canoe for two people, and since then he had started to sit always with the girl, when they came back to earth he was playing football with us and it was very nice, then the girl called him and they left. I've hated that girl. From 14 years onwards my fantasies have been about guys older than me, I was already no longer interested in my peers.
The following summer, I was 16, and I met at the beach a 17 year old guy, a guy with a nice body. After a few days we got into the habit of bathing in the sea together, he had an inflatable raft, we went where the water is a bit deeper, but not too much because we still were able to touch the ground with our feet, he would stand in the raft and I was trying to drop him in the sea and in the end I could drop him in the water but deliberately I waited a few minutes before deciding to drop him.
The thing that mattered to me was the fact that he wore a swimsuit very wide and when he put up in the raft while I was shaking it trying to get him down, I could see everything (his sex). Clearly he was not excited at all but I liked a lot to see his penis that way.
When I was aged 17, attending penultimate year of school, my life has changed. A priest who was more or less 50 y. o. came to teach us Catholic religion, this priest had his charm because he presented religion in a smart way. This priest was leading an oratory for guys and I started to attend it, at the beginning just because there were guys. There was also a Sunday Mass together.
My teacher introduced me to religion, he never confessed the school boys and I appreciated it very much, in short, with a lot of resistance, at least at the beginning, I started going to church and there came the first problems with sexuality. I think that all the guys who attend the church have had to deal with sexual problems but nothing serious.
In the group managed by the priest girls were rare but it was possible to meet also girls. One of them was called L. was pretty and also a lot smart. I'll spare you the details, at age 17 and a half I had my first sexual relationship with L. and I liked it well. In practice since then I have no more had gay fantasies of any kind. I was an athlete, I was naked with my teammates every day but I never got excited.
Two years ago I married L., in practice, according to the canons, I become a normal man. L. didn’t know anything of my sexual fantasies when I was young because I never had had told her such things and at that time I honestly thought that I had completely overcome that things.
But for six months now things have changed, but have changed very slowly, I met at work a 24 y. o. guy, frankly I do not even care whether he is gay or straight, even if I think he's straight. He knows that I’m married and I love my wife very much which in a way is true because I live with her my sexuality and sexually I’m completely happy and also when I rarely masturbate I think about my wife, but the trouble is that I tend to see my wife especially or rather only under sexual profile. When something is not right between us we put it on the sexual and overcome all the problems, at least in appearance.
With my colleague I don’t feel sexual physical implications of any kind, but I think I'm nevertheless in love with him, I do not know how to explain, I got to lie to my wife to spend an evening with him, I feel an extreme tenderness towards him and between us grew a very strong relationship that appears to me that he lives the same way. We're good together, when I quarrel with my wife (it happens rarely) I call him and his voice has the power to calm me down, when I see him in the office I'm just fine, I miss him badly when he is away, it’s a little what should happen with my wife but with her things never go this way, on the contrary with my colleague it always happens.
I have read on the forum of the dissociation between affectivity and sexuality, however, it refers only to men who are sexually attracted to other men and fall in love only with women, the opposite is happening to me. I do not think I could conceive the idea of having sex with my colleague, I tried to see him also from the sexual point of view but the sense of our relationship is not that I do not know what to think, perhaps I can have it removed. However, what makes me think more and in a way encourages me is the fact that it is a shared thing, I do not know if he realizes it or lives it simply as a beautiful friendship between straight guys but it is certainly something special also for him.
In recent times this story has increasingly become inside me. I do not know if you can call it falling in love, certainly there isn’t visible sex but just seeing him makes me feel good, it’s a bit as if he were my model of man, the best I've known, physically but also emotionally, I respect him really, I love him, I think he is better than me and that gives me great pleasure. I came to think something paradoxical and that maybe I could come to prefer to live with my colleague without sex than with my wife with sex. I know I may sound hypocritical but that's what happens to me.
What should do a married 31 y. o. guy who is in this situation? I do not have any intention of losing my friend. My wife could be happy also this way, in practice what am I depriving het of? A little affection, it is true, but this is a betrayal? And how it will end?
Project, no problem if you want to publish the mail, but please answer me in private. Thanks for your patience. I’m waiting for your answer (and possibly your msn contact).
Robert (not my real name)
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| GAY FANTASIES OF A FIFTY YEARS OLD MARRIED MAN |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 09:53 AM - Forum: True gay stories
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Hello Project,
I'm almost 50 years, and have been married for 25, I have two grown children 21 and 23 years, my wife is a very talented woman and I love her. My life, after all, runs happily as the lives of many fathers who hope to see their children fulfill themselves in work and love life. My children are both engaged and their girls are now part of my family, they are often at home without any formalities, we have lunch together and it seems to me that things are going along well in this direction, but I carry within me for many years a thought that haunts me and I can’t talk about to anyone. I think I am and always have been bisexual or even homosexual. I've never had problems having sex with my wife, on the other hand, she was the only woman in my life, but from the beginning I felt that a sexual relationship with her was not exactly what I wanted. I've never had sex with men but I think it did not happen because of my sense of duty towards my family, a little at moral level and a bit not to put at risk the health of myself and my wife and not for lack of sexual interest on my part. And then, objectively, have a relationship with a man would have been socially unsustainable.
There have been periods in the past 25 years, when I felt less homosexual urge. The first four or five years I thought I had overcame the whole problem in the sense that I could contain it because the intercourses with my wife were frequent, but after the birth of our second child the couple sexuality weakened, the children have begun to fill our lives and homosexual impulses have reappeared, which, however, more or less controllable, have never disappeared entirely. In practice, next to my sexuality with my wife, I have a second life in homosexual masturbation, yes, even now at nearly 50 years, and it's real homosexuality. When I got engaged I was 24 and I had never been in love with a girl before. I met my wife through some friends and she fell in love with me.
I was not really in love, I did not feel anything comparable to what I had felt for some guys, but I liked his company, I felt loved and desired. A bit because of the pressures of my family and a little to see how it would end up, I started to do the sweetheart, as it was then: little gifts, romantic walks etc.. etc.., but always without sex, then she tried to go ahead and I had some sexual responses: when we kissed I was erect. Frankly, I never thought about having sex with a girl and I must confess that this not only wasn’t the object of my desires, but somehow it seemed to me like a strange thing. I thought it would not work and instead it worked. She was happy, I was basically indifferent and a bit confused, I could not think of me having sex with a woman, but yet it happened. I told myself then that I could not be gay, but then I thought that I was not really sexually involved. I was in doubt whether to speak with my girlfriend and try to explain everything but she was in love, and I thought that an explicit discourse would upset her totally so I said nothing and went on for a few months.
We didn’t use to take contraceptive precautions, we said that if she got pregnant we would be married soon and we had no fear of diseases because neither she nor I had had sex with other people. Then she has been actually pregnant. I remember when she told me, she still had some concerns that I did not want to marry me but I told her that we would try to get to the wedding as soon as possible and I saw her really happy. Of course in such a situation homosexuality was the least of my worries. If I had said to her or anyone else that I wasn’t heterosexual would not have believed. We got married in the church, I would not have wanted to but my wife was and still is very religious and so we got married in the church. Now the idea of being able to talk to her explicitly of my homosexual fantasies had become impracticable and on the other hand I was living with her a form of heterosexuality that made her happy.
At the age of 36, for the first time, I was madly in love with a guy who was 29, of course everything was and remained only in my head but he was the true center of my sexual interest. We were colleagues and stay close to him embarrassed me terribly, I spied his every move, trying to know everything about him but I did not do anything concrete to even exchange a few words with him, I idolized him, I considered him a model in every sense, a model of morality, or so he seemed to me. Then I came to discover that he had been trying to get an important job putting around gossiping about a colleague of ours that I knew very well. This fact has destroyed the myth of that guy and I began to think that a nice guy can also be a go-getter, can also do things morally incorrect and that maybe I was in love with the wrong guy. If he was straight I would not be disappointed the same way. I could fall in love with a straight guy but never with an evil trickster!
Meanwhile my children were growing up and with my wife things were going on well and all in all I thought I would forget this guy and the idea of being gay would end, but it was not so, in spite of everything I continued to think about the guys and my parallel sexuality continued to stay there. At 40 years comes the second love that, this time, makes me really in crisis. A guy 24 years old comes to work with me, he’s handsome, a bit my ideal guy. I notice that he tries to be close to me and not to miss every possible occasion to come in my room I do not do anything to keep him at a distance, we become friends easily and he tells me clearly that he is gay and then asks about me, I say that I have nothing against gays but I am married and have two children, he tries to compose himself but is obviously disappointed. I feel safe, because that guy would have really upset me. In the following days he comes rarely in my room, I don’t initially seek him, then, slowly our friendship begins again and sometimes, once every 15 days, we begin to meet also out of the office. He tells me about his life and I stay really fascinated because he is a clever guy, a little neurotic, but authentic, spontaneous, actually a nice guy outside but also inside.
Many times I was tempted to tell him that even though I was married and had two children at the end I was gay too. The temptation was very strong but the fear has always held me back, and so our friendship has been going on while remaining only a friendship. Then he found a guy and I became his confidant, of course, our contacts became sporadic. He was really in love with his boyfriend and I kept telling him that the guy was really lucky to find a guy like him but he could not understand that behind those words there was also a healthy dose of envy. During all this time my family life proceeded normally.
By now I was living in two parallel worlds that would never have met. I have asked myself many times what my wife would say if she knew exactly how things are, I basically have never betrayed her, I cannot even tell whether for love or for a quiet life. And then, now my children are grown and I wonder what they would think if they knew more about their father from this point of view. They are heterosexual and I have no doubts about, but unfortunately sometimes I see a hint of homophobia in the younger, a few jokes that I do not like, some smile out of place, and in front of these things I do not know what to do. The older has a gay friend and the younger, in front of such a thing, distorts the nose a little. I think these are things that still can be found in all families.
My wife is not homophobic, for her, simply, homosexuality does not even exist and if it exists it’s something that doesn’t even concern her at all, sometimes she has an attitude of compassion for gays, which I cannot stand, but in this I can see the legacy of religious education. I think I will take my secrets and my family will always be out of these things. I thought about it a lot, but hear from me what I really am would just be a shocking thing for my wife and my children, something that they still could not understand. Reading stories on your forum I found the anguish of parents who have homosexual children but not (with perhaps one exception) the distress of children who have homosexual parents.
Could I give my life a different direction? Maybe so, but in fact it makes no sense asking similar questions. At this point, now at almost 50, the game is over, I made my choices and, all in all, I do not regret. When my children call me daddy I feel proud. But I think they would not even accept the idea that I had an homosexual friend as the guy that I was in love, and that, however, continues to be part of my life even if in the parallel reality that now will continue to characterize my life. If you want to publish my e-mail certainly you can. I'd like to know what you think about.
A hug.
James
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| GAY FANTASIES OF A MARRIED MAN |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 11-01-2017, 03:34 AM - Forum: Gay orientation
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Hello Project, only in this days I have met your beautiful and very useful site and I have found several answers to my "troubles" and I must say that at least in part and thanks to you I feel a little less agitated. I am writing to you, however, because I think that my experience may also be useful to others (so I authorize you to post this email, if you think it appropriate), and above all because I would like to have advice on how to behave or better, on what is your best way to deal with my situation with less anxiety. And then I'm just fine to talk about it, because I've never talked to anyone and then I've been carrying this weight for 30 years now. So I would like it to be clear what a great step I’m going to make.
I am 44 years old (and also because of this I have written because I read that you like to increase the number of "no longer boys", as you call them, who bring their experiences.
I am happily married to a wonderful woman and I have two beautiful kids. I want to underline it because I love my wife to madness and she loves me even more, if possible, and with her there is also a good sexual harmony: I find myself satisfied on that side, also because, without exaggerating, we occasionally experience something new. The only flaw is that over the years (12 of marriage) the frequency of the sexual intercourses has diminished. She too seems to me to be satisfied, but she would like to have a greater frequency in the intercourses.
But let's get to the point. Ever since I started masturbating, that is, at 11, if I remember well, my sexual fantasies have always turned, at 95%, to homosexual contents. In most cases, depending on the time, the fantasies have seen me and see me even now in the passive role and in fact, from the beginning I had and still have a great pleasure in anal self-stimulation. I have never had any kind of sexual intercourse until the age of 28 and this does not seem normal to me. My sexuality was then expressed through masturbation. In truth, my discovery of attraction to the guys has never led me to any particular sense of guilt or to attempts of repression: I accepted it immediately, but at the same time I realized that it would not be easy to live my sexuality freely.
Girls for the truth I have always liked them, and even today if I see beautiful women, sexual thoughts come to my mind. Conversely, as many do, if you exclude the adolescent phase, I feel that I cannot find any affective interest in a man/boy: at best I could fall “sexually” in love with someone of them. As far as I'm concerned, honestly, I do not believe in love between two men; the true love I could have found, and really found presently is only with women, which I consider to be superior to men in this respect (I know you will not agree but that's not the point).
Given the above, in adolescence, I was having trouble communicating with girls, both because of shyness and because I was conditioned by the social environment (at that time I lived in a small town) and by my mother in the sense that I did not want to be seen around with not nice girls because my mother always told me I was a good guy (that's true) and that cute girls had to line up for me (obviously it’s not true, because I'm not particularly attractive). Perhaps I missed a strong push to have heterosexual intercourses because I probably liked more those gay. Surely I always liked better the male body. I also have always been involved in the studies and probably at that time masturbation was enough to calm my sexual appetites.
As far as the possibility of gay intercourses is concerned, even though, as has already been said, there was no problem neither moral nor of personal acceptance, living in a small town, even though there was no internet, there was anyway, of course, a strong social conditioning. etc. etc. I have never had real opportunities, nor have I really been looking for such opportunities (except for some timid approaches which have not led to anything). However, I lived quite serenely (blessed masturbation!) And by the truth I said to myself that the sexual intercourse between men was superior to that hetero because it gives the opportunity to enjoy with all parts of the body. Probably if I had more opportunities and more explicit, had there been internet with its beautiful sites (like this) that would help me overcome my shyness and, why not, less beautiful sites (porn movies) that would still make me understand many things about the gay world, I would have had my homosexual, traumatic or beautiful but still right experiences, because that was the age to make those experiences!
At that time, however, I could also have fallen in love with guys, what really happened with some comrades (without any possibility). When I left my little town to go to college in a big city, you could suppose that, freeing me from the conditioning of my old town and of my family, I could have experienced my first gay relationships but no! Again in this case, I was overwhelmed by other types of conditioning: first of all, and maybe it was also right, the commitment to the study, since I felt obliged to my parents who spent a lot of money to keep me in college, but also the fact that I was living in an apartment with one of my high school friends (and that's where the little town comes back to me) plus two absolutely hetero guys totally locked up at any dialog. So I didn’t even have time to look for boys and girls and didn’t even have such a big desire.
I kept masturbating thinking of homo intercourses (during this time both active and passive, I imagine because, without having any experience, any way of feeling pleasure attracted me) and I was there "drooling" when I was seeing guys around or on television. When I finished my studies and started working, always in the big city, I went to live alone. At that point I said, "Finally I can arrange my life as I want, I can decide whether to have gay relationships or not, or go looking for girls!" But it was not that easy: I didn’t have a computer neither I was really interested in buying a computer, and at that time social networks and chats were still in the early days, during the university years I had been isolated from the social context and I almost had to fit into the social environment of the city, I did not know how to meet people, women or men, and those were even the first few months of the new job with all this entails, and I did not have the luck to have some bisexual colleague with whom to try something! I really was not so bad physically: not much beautiful in the face but with a muscular body, tall, wide shoulders, only with a slightly prominent belly but with a nice seat. I had started a first approach to gay pornography (magazines), but nothing more.
When at last (at the age of 28!) maybe because I felt alone, I decided that it was time to have sex (hetero or even gay), I first went with a female prostitute and lost my virginity. I must say that it was not traumatic, but I did not feel a particular pleasure. Then I started thinking that I could not go on like that and that I had to experience gay intercourses.
At that point, however, and I don’t know why (what do you think about, Project?) I felt also a strong need for paternity and "normality": I absolutely wanted to have a family with a woman who loved me and that I could love, and also have children. I really wanted such things and not just to suppress my gay sexuality! So I thought that it was absolutely crucial to make a choice, a choice that really influenced all my life and that’s why I'm now writing to you: had I to follow the "sexual" part of me and then give vent my desire to have fun with guys every time I wanted it, but with the prospect, on the other hand, of living a life not easy (it is useless to turn around) as a bisexual single because I never wanted to "live" with a male? This would have forced me to remain basically alone, whether I chose to remain hidden or to expose my nature, causing great pain to my family. Or had I to give up a part, even important, of my sexuality, continuing to take refuge in masturbation, but having for the rest a serene life, (what then actually happened)?
I decided that sex wasn’t certainly the most important part of life and that in the end you cannot have everything and therefore I made my choice. Today I don’t regret it and this choice for the truth is very similar to that of a heterosexual man who marries and decides to be faithful, to renounce having sex with other women. Nevertheless I regret, that I didn’t have gay relationships in adolescence and youth. I wish I could say today: "I still like guys, but I've already done what I wanted to do, I have had my many relationships, and have experienced what was to be experienced and then I made the right choice."
Unfortunately, things are not so and after so many years, now I feel a little in crisis because it seems to me that masturbation is not enough anymore, nor it’s enough to feel very excited when on public transport I see good guys; I would like to feel a male’s body with all my senses, let a gay penetrate me, and also enjoy him. But in my situation it’s not easy. I would not have moral inhibitions to go with male escorts, but in addition to the obvious fear of illness, however overwhelming, I would not have had time or opportunity to stay at the computer choosing this or that one because I obviously have a family and from whew I’m working I cannot go to these sites.
I could put an ad and then just wait, but in this case too, the thing should be handled by the home computer and I would have difficulties for the above reasons. And then, it’s really worth? Ah, had I too had the luck of several people who write to you, who can, by "normal" ways, get in touch with gay or bisexual people! I could make contacts with men who are in my own situation and only experience sex stories, but my wife probably would not forgive me and I do not know if I would do it. And for the truth I do not know how much I can enjoy having sex with men of my age: I still like teenagers but at my age it's ridiculous to think that you can find someone willing to have sex with one of over 40, moreover passive, if not for money. Besides, I'm no longer as handsome as when I was young because with growing age I got a little belly. Of course, a thirty-year-old man would theoretically have more experience and know how to make me enjoy.
I didn’t said anything yet to my wife, I don’t feel like it yet, I don’t know if she would understand. maybe in the coming months I will do it, perhaps just to get rid of such a weight and maybe this could make our relationship even better, because she would understand that I am honest. Lately, I've given her some signal, because during sexual intercourses I asked her to penetrate me with phallic objects. At first she hesitated, but then she said to me, "Because I love you, if you like it, I’ll do" and then she asked me if I like males but I did not have the courage to say it and indeed I told her that if a man wants to feel pleasure in that way it’s not an index of homosexuality. She told me something I was happy about, that is if I had sex (and I suppose, sporadically) with a male, it would be less harming than if I had sex with a woman for the simple reason that I would go looking for a kind of pleasure that she could not give me. But soon after that she started crying and I felt my heart wounded!
Project, what do you suggest to face my situation more serenely? I would like to have your reply. Lastly, I would like to send positive messages. I hope my experience will be useful to the young guys who are now living the same things I have experienced, I hope they reflect before acting to avoid my own mistakes, putting away any hesitation in experiencing gay relationships if they feel they want to do it, and putting also away every external conditionings (which, contrary to what people think, still today are common among the guys, although in very different manners according to the context). Even today, even for those who live in the little towns, thanks to the internet there are more ways to get to know each other and compare their anxieties. And then I also think of my children, both boys: I think that what I've been and still I’m through is not useless because, when the time will be right, I will be able to educate them correctly about affectivity and sexuality. For charity, I will not encourage them to be gay, rather I will explain to them that gay life is tough, but I will tell them that their dad has no problem if they want to experience gay, sexual or sentimental relationships. And then they will decide what is best for them.
I wish you all the best.
P.S .: I cannot use chats and the like, I'm ignorant of the matter and on the other hand in my situation I would not even have the chance; so please give me an e-mail reply; if you think it appropriate, you can also post this mail and your answer.
What follows is my answer.
Hi, I go straight to the point. What you write does not have much of gay, rather it is a mentality far removed from that of most gays, I can tell you better, for you it is important to experience a kind of sexuality, not to build a love story with a guy. For you there is only one of the two components of homosexuality, that is, the typically sexual one, and it lacks the affective one and you tend to read gay sexuality as a set of sexual practices that are not even the majoritarian in the gay world (penetration) and are a vague transposition in a homosexual key of a typically heterosexual sexuality.
Experimentation of sexuality has nothing to do with sexuality, it is an experiment not an act of love and on the other hand you say and underline in any way that you do not believe in love stories between two men, which for a gay guy is absolutely essential. A married man gratified by heterosexuality, having a relationship with a guy or wanting to have a relationship with a guy is not a gay but a heterosexual who goes or wants to go with the guys but will in all likelihood transpose into a homosexual relationship things that with the gay world have little to do. In the heterosexual dimension, sexuality is inevitably with fixed roles, in the homosexual dimension the existence of roles doesn’t even make sense, despite what people believe, there is a principle of substantial equality, it is the sexuality of similarity and not of complementarity.
A gay guy falls in love with another guy (even heterosexual) and doesn’t fall in love because he wants to experience some sexual practice with him, but because for that guy he feels love and tenderness. I would like to clarify one thing, according to the common language a man is homosexual if and only if he has sexual intercourses with another man but this does not make sense, on the contrary it happens often that guys not yet openly gay fall in love with guys with whom they could never have sexual intercourses. A gay guy may regret a love story ended badly but not the lost opportunity of having sex with a guy.
A gay falls in love with a guy and then sees him sexually, masturbates thinking about that guy, wants him but wants him as a person, because it must be just that boy and not another one, he does not want him because he's a guy but because he is just that guy. A gay would not think of going to search for an escort to try a sexual contact or put ads for sexual purposes, could even put ads but dreaming of doing almost miraculously in certain environments the encounter he had dreamed of all his life, that is to find there the guy who really loves him and that will be his boyfriend steadily.
A gay guy does not dream of gay sexual intercourses but of a love story with a guy and when he is in love is brought to do anything for his boyfriend. I have seen authentically heroic gestures, incredible courage and abnegation manifestations of gay guys in love for the good of the guy they love. A gay guy in love, for the guy he loves, is capable of giving up everything because he realizes that the relationship he has created, if real, is able to change his life 100%. But you tell me, in any case I still feel the strong impetus to try a gay sexuality. Given that you cannot build any serious affective affair with a gay guy, you will find only guys or men who, like you, just want to try or continue to experience sexual intercourses, if you allow me, this is the anteroom of a deep frustration. I don’t say it for moralism but because I have seen these things a lot of times.
A forty-year-old guy seriously looking for an affective relationship with a man can also find answers worthy of being taken into consideration. But when I saw married men go looking for "just" homosexual experiences to say that they experienced it as wall, inevitably, a few months later, I saw the consequences in terms of frustration and sometimes of sexual dependence. I add another thing that seems to me to be absolutely fundamental, and it is the relationship of a married man with his wife, especially in families with children. If I try to think about how a woman can feel when she understands to have a husband looking for sex out of the house and with a man, I get shivered. You are destroying your wife's life in this way, and moreover when she made her choice she was not aware of what really you had in mind. Let's not talk about the kids. I have seen great children who have accepted that the father was gay and that he lived with another man but in a relationship that nevertheless appeared in the eyes of the children (because it really was) a true love affair, but of course those children would not accept that the father wanted try to prove gay sexuality.
When you married you didn’t speak clearly to your wife, until now even if you didn’t really allow her to understand who you are, however, you have considered that your relationship should not be crushed by different sex fantasies (hetero or gay) but if you're looking for sex from a man, your wife would feel betrayed and no less than if you were looking for sex from a woman. I would strongly disagree with your invitation to the guys to "experience gay intercourses." It is good not to be "afraid of external conditioning" if it is to build true gay love stories but to push people to experience gay sexuality without an affective basis means just not having the pale idea of what gay life really is. I apologize for my perhaps too much determined way to deal with the problem, but I have to clarify and point out that what you consider gay are the typical gay fantasies of a heterosexual man, that of gay only have the appearance.
I add here below the answer to my email.
Thank you so much for the wonderful answer, it has been very helpful, you are really a nice person. The perception of me as bisexual or gay or otherwise attracted to males stemmed from the fact that my free sexuality (masturbation) has always been addressed to guys and still excites me to see beautiful males. If things are different then ok. In the meantime (and I hope I did well) I took courage and I told my wife everything! In confirmation of what you say, she felt betrayed because I did not tell her everything before marrying and maybe she would have accepted me the same but in a conscious way: she said practically the same thing you said to confirm that she is definitely a person better than me. But better late than never and also now I know, above all thanks to you, that I must not betray her for any reason in the world because I love her immensely and now more than ever I need her love and she needs mine.
I hope my wife will be able to metabolize the suffering that I created her, she who simply dreams of a normal life with a normal man, thanks to the fact that she knows that now I would never betray her and that I need her. Paradoxically, however, I feel better, because I have freed myself of a burden that I have worn for too many years and because now I know I can masturbate without hiding from her who is willing, out of love, to participate in these fantasies of mine and also accepted more serenely to practice anal penetration for me. Yesterday, after I told her, every time I approached her there was an erection and it seems to me that couple sexuality can gain, I feel even more satisfied: always a compromise solution but less hypocritical and freer.
Excuse me if I said that guys have to experience gay relationships, I was wrong to write and in fact if you read the part dedicated to my children, I spoke, more correctly, to experience gay relationships both sexually and sentimentally, if they feel they want to do such things. I just wanted to say, in fact, that if a guy in adolescence feels he wants to have a gay relationship in his sexual and sentimental fullness, he can do it without hesitation, so as not to find himself living in regret, like me.
Feel free to publish this e-mail, if you think it appropriate, I'd like to read your opinion and also those of the guys of the forum, even with reference to developments with my wife. You're a big, Bye.
Here below my answer.
Your mail makes me immensely pleased, because you did what had to be done, that is, you spoke clearly with your wife. Sure she felt betrayed for not having known everything before, but at least now she can have the certainty of having an authentic relationship with her husband, in which there are not things that are not said. Of course you feel better! You did what you had to do. See, the relationship with your wife, just from what you write, has all the characteristics of a true emotional relationship, in which there is sex, of course, but there is also a community of life and a cooperation to build something together. Being accepted by his own wife even after such an admission is a sign that the relationship is very strong.
You can also have your fantasies about guys but loving a person is a different thing. To love means to live together, to build together, to have a common world, in two, to be a couple and no longer to two individuals.
A hug! And good luck!
Project
I report below the answer I received.
Dear Project, I’m always "the man married who experiences gay fantasies". Excuse me if I write to you again, I’m far from taking advantage of your immense availability. But I read the discussion that followed on my case with great interest. I would have liked to register on the forum and answer the numerous comments, but my wife wouldn’t have approved.
I was pleased about the interest, but things have been said about the relationship of love with my wife that I didn’t like too much: I'm good to be considered a repressed gay or a schizophrenic bisexual (yes, I always knew that my behavior is not 100% normal and in my life I never felt heterosexual, I felt gay at times, before getting to know my wife, bisexual almost always), but it hurts me when one calls into question my deep love (both feeling and sex) for my wife. You can understand that for me it would be terrifying: it means that for all these years of marriage with my wife I only pretended to love her first of all if front of myself and unknowingly, even though I am deeply convinced of loving her in the highest sense of the term and above all of feeling sexual fulfillment: if I think about it, I feel like crying!
But I wanted to tell you that you're really great and do you know why? I went to read a post of March 31, 2010 entitled "Gay Sexuality and Transgression". I quote here two passages:
" It sometimes happens that some guys who have a typically heterosexual and fully satisfying emotional and sexual couple life don’t ever masturbate thinking of a girl but they do it thinking exclusively of guys with whom they don’t feel emotionally involved, but their sexual fantasies are concentrated only on a particular sexual behavior, considered very transgressive. In such situations, the classic principle of free sexuality, according to which sexual orientation emerges through the masturbation (free sexuality) and not through the couple sexuality, cannot be applied precisely because in these situations masturbation is not really free and the fact of masturbating with transgressive gay fantasies (or considered such) indicates that masturbation is experienced not as sexuality but as an act of rebellion against taboos. The more transgressive the fantasies that accompany masturbation are the greater is the gratification that is obtained by overcoming the taboo. I mean that for these guys masturbation is not really a sexual experience but an act of self-assertion as a person who got rid of taboos. This mechanism of overcoming taboos through transgressive masturbation can in some cases evolve into forms of transgressive couple sexuality."
"It is evident that in this case masturbation is not at all a form of free sexuality and, I would say, it is not even a form of true sexuality. It often happens that the "transgressive" masturbation of a guy who is really a heterosexual accompanies the temptation to put into practice masturbation fantasies. It should be noted that in these cases the affective dimension is totally lacking and the problem is reduced to bringing the overcoming of taboos from the masturbatory dimension, that appears reductive, to a far more "transgressive" dimension of couple sexuality. I emphasize that the guys who have a "transgressive" gay masturbation generally have a rather distorted view of gay sexuality that for them, even if they say otherwise, is basically something anomalous that becomes interesting precisely because "transgressive", the idea of gay sexuality and affectivity as normal for these guys is difficult to accept, in a sense, if they considered gay sexuality normal, it would lose all attraction for them. It must be said that these guys in the vast majority have never fallen in love with a guy and consider at least unnatural that two guys can live a deep and mutual love. All this with being gay has clearly nothing to do."
In the aforementioned post you describe exactly how my situation is after I met my wife, except, in my opinion, that I’m not exactly hetero. You wrote this thing 3 months before I told you my experience! So to insist on the theory that is the free sexuality, without other specifications, that determines the true sexual orientation seems to me too simplifying in my case. I would like to say that, without having read the post above (I swear it, before anyone doubts it) after my coming out with my wife, as I said, we are having sex more "transgressively" (I admit, in this period I cannot help but be penetrated by her almost every night, I’m sexually happy, also because pleasure comes to me not only from the act itself, but also from the fact that it is exactly my wife who makes it to me and such a thought makes me feel like in the early days of marriage). Not only this, but the things I learned from your site have made me better understand the gay reality as something less transgressive and coincidentally, at least for the moment, I don’t masturbate with certain fantasies!
I realize that claiming to describe my sexual and affective life in 3 pages was a mistake, because I cannot make people understand all the nuances, but I couldn’t bore you by focusing on the details. After all, my goal was not to know what I’m (I am a person very self-interested: I've been forming a precise idea of myself for a few years now), but to have an advice on the best way to live my situation and you gave me that advice very well, Project: you made me understand that looking for occasional intercourse even on payment would be detrimental, first of all for me, even before than for my family. Of course, before knowing my wife I thought almost exclusively of guys in masturbation but it was almost always anaffective masturbation: even when I was thinking about specific guys (for example high school or college mates) I always thought of them as sexual objects. I almost never felt in love with guys, while in happened with girls (with a lot of sexual desires that anyway only for very short periods accompanied my masturbation fantasies: Jek is right, I'm not normal).
With my wife I was engaged 3 years and they were beautiful years like the first years after marriage, when we were sexually very active and not only because upstream there was a deep love relationship. In those 3 years I should have realized if something was wrong and I should have given everything up, instead everything was fine: the other night I remembered with my wife that it was enough for me to hear her voice on the phone to get an erection! Not that I stopped masturbating thinking about homosexual relationships, but my sexual fantasies oriented themselves exclusively to imaginary transgressive relationships, no longer thinking about specific guys. After all, the emotional part of love for my wife has never failed: she is the most beautiful thing that has happened to me in life and I want to scream at all! The sexual interest has waned, starting from the birth of the first child, but it is a normal thing in couples (isn’t it true, Barbara?). I would not charge it to my being bisexual or if you prefer repressed gay, if anything it's the other way around. Those who know the life of a couple know that at a certain point it is no longer enough to see the partner naked to get excited, also because the body is not as beautiful as it once was, but it is necessary to know how to touch, how to caress, etc. in a crescendo of new sexual stimuli that for those who have a very high libido like me can mean experiencing "more" transgressive "games". This needs time, dedication and with two children, the work, the house, I assure you that it is not easy. That’s why masturbation for me is not the only form of sexuality due to the fact that I don’t like that expressed with my wife, but the valve to vent my own instincts in a simple way, without too much effort and intellectual or sentimental involvement. What I wanted to say then is that for years I have convinced myself that I was bisexual and I believe that the discussion on the forum does nothing but confirm it, but I don’t place too much emphasis on the dissociation between heterosexual affectivity and gay sexuality, because also from a sexual point of view the hetero side is satisfying for me and it is so much more because at the base there is a deep emotional bond! (and, Project, you took it immediately).
I would not then unleash your ethical reactions (don’t be too bad with me), but I would say that I have always been happy to be bisexual: it is nice to be able to love one's own female partner and feel sexually satisfied with her and at the same time feel excited to see beautiful guys on the street and then if I can share this excitement with the woman of my life it is even more beautiful! It is obvious that a bisexual who places the "traditional" family at the top of the scale of his values should at some point make a choice: hence my regret for not having fully lived the homo part when I could. I thank you all, no one excluded and I would really like to embrace you not only virtually, even that "bad guy" of Publisher, whose analyzes have been very useful to understand me even better. A special thanks, as well as to Project, also to Barbara, who was able to express in a sublime way my mood and of which I share every single word. Congratulations to Telemaco for his sensitivity: it is a quality that is always a pleasure to find in guys his age and I wish him to find the person who can make him happy because he deserves it. Congratulations also to Aster, who from his blog appears to be a sweet boy, cultured and also cute: in my next masturbation fantasies I’ll get excited thinking of him who says "ugly typical repressed fennel!". Joking aside, he is a smart guy and not just for the coming out story (as a parent I hope things with his father are settled: for a father to feel close to his son who "cheated" him has not price). Indeed, as far as I'm concerned, these coming out stories have a bit fed up even for controversies. Rather, Aster, let us dream and tell us your love story with your boyfriend (sentimentally eh, I better specify it before you start to think that I'm a pervert). I regret not being able to participate actively in the forum, but maybe I will follow you and who knows, in a few years, when my eldest will be in age, I hope you can enjoy reading what I have to say about education on sexual and sentimental orientation. I hope I will be a good father, and this thanks to my "experience" and thanks to you. Best wishes.
Peter
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| GAY GUYS AND COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE |
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Posted by: gayprojectforum - 10-30-2017, 02:01 AM - Forum: True gay stories
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Compulsory military service in Italy was suspended, in practice abolished, in 2004. Prior to that, all the guys, at the end of the eighteenth year, were referred to the physical for military conscription. There were many legends related to collective nakedness and to the presence of homosexual doctors, with all that this could entail. The embarrassment for the physical, the first physical that included genital examination, was common for years among the guys who were preparing for the fateful moment. Of course, for gay guys the embarrassment was much greater, for many of them this was the first moment of collective nakedness and hard-ons could become uncontrollable.
On May 3, 2008, I received and published on the blogs of Gay Project the email I quote below translated into English.
_________
I was born in March 1986, so in January 2004 I received, last among the last ones, the terrible call card for the military physical. Compulsory military service reform was a highly debated issue in those days, the suspension of the mandatory enlistment seemed a probable hypothesis, but a lot of things were not yet well defined. I had hoped until the last moment to get rid of it, but my precept postcard summoned me for military physical at the beginning of August 2004. From September 30, 2004, military physical has been abolished. In essence, I would have been in the very last contingents for the compulsory military service before the abolition of it.
At school I was a year ahead, just in time for not being able to get a referral for study reasons, I could enroll at the university and I would have escaped military service with the referral, and instead my parents did not want to hear any reason and I hated them for that, but in fact this was my luck, even though I realized it later on. My father always told me that in the army they would make me a man and said: "Who is not good for the king is not good for the queen either!" An old way to say that those who didn’t do military service aren’t good for marriage. I had the terror of military service, of hazing and of all I had heard about these things. I could not say to my dad that I was gay and that if I stated it during the physical I would have avoided the military service, so for me there was no escape.
I think all the guys have read a lot of porn stories on the military physical, well, I assure you that if you read about the military physical when other guys have to deal with it, it can be fun, but when you are the one you have to undergo this experience it makes you feel anguish.
It was not even for the thing in itself, because I had passed some sporting physicals and also with some embarrassing situations because having to lower your underpants in front of the doctor is embarrassing for anyone, but the thing I was worried about was not even that but getting a hard-on, because for a gay guy, in a situation like that, being naked in front of so many other guys and in front of the doctors who could do with the guys whatever they like with the excuse of the medical examination (and someone really exaggerated) well, it does a certain effect and, wanting or not wanting, when a gay guy sees things like that it’s very easy that he can get a hard-on, but if it happens in such a situation there is not only the embarrassment but they brand you, that is, you cannot really lose control there.
I didn’t knew exactly how it would have been, it was a common fear to all the other guys who had to get the military physical, but I didn’t know guys who had already gone through the physical. Those older than me had fun telling me terrible things, in short, things similar to that of porn movies. Last week I did a lot of yoga exercises up to the incredible: checking my breath, posture, standing on one foot, holding my breath for a long time, pulling my belly back and so on because I had read it was something that decreases hard-ons, etc. etc..
The terrible day arrives, I was uncomfortable from the morning. They send us to a waiting room and, waiting, waiting, it’s almost noon; chatting with others, one tells me: "There is one doctor with a beard, if you happen to get examined by him you are in trouble! That doctor is gay and you'll get a very special physical!" At a certain point a sergeant comes and calls ten guys and me among them, and he gets us into the locker room and tells us to held on just the underpants and to deposit everything else in the lockers. We undress. My heart beats violently, they get us two by two into the medical room and send us at the end of the room where there are two examination tables. I see a very nice blond guy just in front of me.
Two doctors come in, they both have a beard, the doctor who comes to me has only a goatee, the guy in front of me is now completely naked and the doctor checks all that can be checked: fells the testicles, pulls back the foreskin, and I’m there to see, so I get a hard-on and I cannot hold it back. My doctor makes me lower my underpants and immediately realizes what's happening, feels the testicles for half a second, pulls on my underpants and sends me rapidly away making me understand with a move of the eyes that I had to get out of the medical room immediately before the other doctor may be interested in me, all this while the other doctor humiliates the blond guy even making comments loudly.
When I went out of the medical room I had a terrible heartthrob, 120 and beyond, then the blond guy explained to me that the pansy ("finocchio") doctor did not happen to me but to him. I was absolutely certain of the opposite but I could not explain why. Of course, for a gay doctor, doing military physicals should be the best, the doctor who had happened to me, however, did not humiliate me at all and did not take advantage of the situation while he could have done so putting me into a terrible embarrassment, but he, in my opinion, understood how things were, that is, that I was gay, and allowed me to escape the humiliation. The following days there were psychological tests, but they were all shit. At the end: skilled and enrolled!
The first November they send me to the regiment. There was the atmosphere of a total disarmament, it was the last contingent of compulsory enrollment. I arrive, they incorporate me, then comes dressing and then they send me to the department. The usual embarrassment in the showers (no partitions) but as there were no fixed times, I ate very little at lunch and I was showering in the early afternoon when there was no one. I would very much like to do it in crowded hours, along with so many other guys, but that was too dangerous. Every now and then I entered the showers at rush hour, but that's all another talk.
Hazing? I did not see it, I repeat, perhaps because it was the last contingent, and even the officers treated us very elastically. In the early months there was a real discipline, later they realized that we were calm and did not disturb and this was enough for them, it was a rather bland thing. With the other guys things got loose quickly enough. Of course I could not say I was gay but I never felt in trouble because I was on my own. One of the guys was, Bruno, coming from Trentino was a very handsome blond guy, though he was called Bruno (in Italian Bruno sounds like brown) (I have e weakness for the blondes!), I was always with him, we did everything together except the shower, he was polite, not intrusive, not conceited, a pretty guy but quiet.
In short I took a crush for Bruno, keeping him close, talking to him, staying with him so long caused me sexual reactions and sometimes I was embarrassed because I thought he would notice it and so happened, he smiled and said to me, "But what are you doing?" I became red like a pepper, but nothing changed between us, we kept going all the time together, then came the talk of the military physical and I told him what happened to me, which in practice meant to make it clear that I was gay, going further on with such subject I was afraid of a negative reaction and I felt very embarrassed, but he was smiling amused by my story, then the unexpected thing, he looks firmly in my eyes and says, "You don’t know what happened to me, I just had a huge hard-on and my doctor, the one with the goatee, told me to leave as soon as possible." So Bruno was gay too! This was his coming out.
We joked about all the stories of the physical, and then I said, "It's great to be in the army! Or am I wrong?" Now you can wait for I don’t know what, maybe so much sex but no, there was some kind of total incertitude, both on my side and on his, I dreamed of him every night and when I could, that is when there was a little privacy, I masturbated thinking of him and he certainly did the same but we never spoke about. Once we camped together, near Udine, we were in the tent together but we were in eight and we couldn’t even have a little privacy. When we got to have free exit we were always together, same pizzeria, same walk. We sat on the benches and talked for hours, he told me all his fantasies, even sexual things but just little, then I asked him if he had a boyfriend in civil life and he told me no, I told him that the same was for me, but even after these confessions nothing happened.
One day I told him I had fallen in love with him and he said to me: "I'm in love with you too, but I don’t feel like I'm starting a story that cannot last long." He made me realize that he wanted me but he was saying it only with words, no gesture, not even least, not even a caress, we were deliberately going to the showers at different times, but we wanted each other. He was convinced that as we lived 400 km away we could never have built a serious thing together, but to stay with him I would have done a thousand miles. I tried to insist, it was evident that he was tempted and was fighting against himself to hold back the idea, he was anxious, I knew that he was working on his choice, that he was basically trying to resist himself but wanted to surrender.
Day after day I saw his defenses fall and I hoped that the next day he would tell me yes, then I was discouraged and I did not insist on saying that I wanted to have sex with him, reluctantly I was tossed into more generic speeches, that is sexless, in the beginning he seemed very reassured by my decision to lower the tones, then after two days, he comes to me in the morning and tells me, "When are you going to the showers?" I light up a smile at 34 teeth and say, "At two and a half, and there is no one!" He answers: "I come, but look, we just have a shower!" We were in the square and there were people around and so I could not embrace him and I could not even shriek for happiness because they would think I was crazy, I just made the gesture with my mouth to send him a little kiss and he said to me: "Remember you promised, just the shower!" Well, we arrived both at showers a quarter of an hour in advance.
I was expecting that our meeting would easily turn into a very strong and direct sexual contact, but nothing like that happened. He told me that he was very embarrassed and that he didn’t feel like doing such things, I told him that I could understand it and that I would not hurt him. He hesitated a bit, then said to me, "But at a distance and together, did you understand?" And he walked away from me several meters, placed himself right on the opposite side of the showers' room. We undressed together and went to the showers not only without touching each other but staying far away, but I could see him naked and it was not a fortuitous thing, he was there for me and on the other hand I was there for him as well. Everything lasted at most three minutes, I think the three most intense minutes of my life, then he said to me: "It's enough!" We went back to the dressing room and we dressed. It was a thrill experience.
Once dressed, we put our heads under the jet of frozen water because otherwise we were not in a state to leave the showers and go around the barracks. In the following days the shower rite at two and a half in the afternoon became the rule, he was less embarrassed and I too, but we never touched each other for about two months, then we were discharged and when they gave us the leave sheet and told us we could finally leave because everything was over, well, I went through a moment of profound discomfort, I felt agitated, I was really sad because leaving Bruno seemed to me a terrible thing. He caught it and said, "Do you think it will work?" I answered him as a desperate guy. We left the barracks and began to speak like a couple, now it was obvious that we would not separate anymore, that we would have fought against everything and against everyone to live our lives. It was 1st November 2005. We have been together for two and a half years now and I hope to grow old with Bruno at my side.
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![[Image: gra5.png?w=700&h=451&zoom=2]](https://gayproject2.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gra5.png?w=700&h=451&zoom=2)
